Curse

Turbobusa · Aug 09, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Most people know the english basics so I'd stick to that.
Otherwise I ctrl space the person I want to have following me or know I'm following him/her since its automatically set in his/her language

Bobby2 · Aug 09, 2008, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I think people should politely stick to the language of the server they're playing on. Europe has it baaaad.

Nightow · Aug 09, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I think people should politely stick to the language of the server they're playing on. Europe has it baaaad.

I hate to point fingers like this but I agree. A lot of Danish/German/Finnish speaking people on there who just don't give a damn if communicating better helps or not.

Kawil · Aug 09, 2008, 05:27 PM // 17:27

If you're playing on an English server then you MAY expect that language to be used. However, if you wander to Europe, don't expect English to be the main one. Never expect someone to speak your language simply because you can't understand them.

But alas, AB isn't that difficult and typing instructions on team will probably suffice. I've journeyed over to the Europe servers just for a change and have no trouble communicating as most Europeans know quite a few languages.

Bobby2 · Aug 09, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Well, I'm Euro myself, yet prefer to play on the US servers. This isn't about nationality - pricks everywhere - but if they speak English, at least I can whine along.

tmakinen · Aug 12, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Doing AB with an alliance team is one thing, PUGs are a different can of worms altogether. The question is, are 'solid strategy' and 'PUG' mutually exclusive concepts. You are restricted in available material (mostly mediocre builds lacking utility) and tactics (poor coordination during fights, no fancy splits) and there is less dedication to common goals. Despite this - based on my own experiences - it is still possible to run a very successful team. Here are some issues that I've found important:

Be the leader. You don't have to be the first player on the roster but if you are the best strategian in the team make everybody agree that it's you who's leading (you don't have to bully them into submission, usually acting like you know what you're doing is enough to assume leadership). Conversely, if there is already a clear leader in a team when you join, let him lead for one match and assess his performance. If he's not good enough don't contest the leadership, just leave for another team after the match.

Know your team. There are different views on the issue but if you're leading a team you should know what it can and cannot do, and about the only way to find out is to ping builds. You're trying to create a team where players support each other, and if your team needs an ele to bust shrines and gets a terra tank with 7 defensive skills + Stone Daggers you're screwed from get-go. Be as flexible as possible. If you cannot find a nuker get a ranger with Incendiary Arrows. If the ranger can only Barrage, let him Barrage the shrines. If the ranger can only touch, find something else. Characters with standalone skirmish builds are unlikely to stay with your team during the match - that may or may not be acceptable depending on what you're trying to accomplish. In any case leading a team without knowing team members' builds is like driving a car blindfolded. It may be good for git and shiggles but not much more.

Take care of your team. Always make it clear what the next path of action is. Keep drawing and pinging on the radar, even if it's just 'go this way' and 'don't go that way'. Be decisive, hesitation is worse than making a wrong decision on occasion (but if you find yourself making bad decisions all the time it would be good to have some introspection on the first assumption that you're an above average strategian). Keep an eye on all team members that they won't accidentally stray off. If you get separated, try your best to gather all team members back together as most characters are rather useless without their team and are more likely to bail out if left alone for extended periods. If you have time, give tactical assessments and advice on team channel along the way (you can usually type short sentences while running between shrines).

Keep your cool. It's just a game, and your team members are following you from their own volition. Never rage to a team member. If a team member is permanently unable/unwilling to do what is needed, wait until the match is over then politely explain that in order to work the team needs a different kind of character, then kick him. Unfortunately, keeping a player who is nothing but dead weight is bad for the morale of your team and thus you must make the decision not as an act of revenge but as a necessary measure for the benefit of the team as whole. Conversely, give positive feedback always when there's a reason for it. If your team played well as a team let them know it even if you lost the match because of bad allies. Compliment individual players for exceptional performance, and thank for the matches when you or somebody else leaves. If you are nice to other people they are more likely to hang around as long as it's needed to get things done.

O Mika Nakashima O · Aug 12, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

glacialphoenix

I was also talking about the allied PUG teams whose builds you cannot check before game

AzNChicken

If my allied guilds care, I should care

Quote:

At least it seems balanced and fair

Match the rate

Quote:

Take whichever side is being ignored (if our side hasn't capped it), defending nearby shrines from occasional solo/group cappers, and then joining in to end scuffles if possible.

Ok

fireflyry, Bobby2

Thanks

glacialphoenix

Yeah

tmakinen

Quote:

The base team will almost always face an unfavorable fight because defenders will bring with them additional NPCs

The rest is a good description of Canyon/Lands opening moves

fireflyry, Robbert Monga

I don't recommend doing experiments in unfavorable maps before favorable ones

bungusmaximus

Sometimes I just ask what elite or attribute lines s/he runs

fireflyry

Quote:

I was experimenting with an assacaster build

I thought-experimented it and did meet a good ABer with that type of build last year

N1ghtstalker

lol

Unreal Havoc

I don't ask my friend list to ping though

----------------------------------------

Kurzick AB-specialized [Mika] is recruiting FF/ABers and fun guilds. Currently 3M factions, ~90 members, in 15M [Mika] alliance. PM "O Mika Nakashima O" or other Mikans for more details. Welcome to visit us @ http://mikanakashima.gamerdna.com & http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild:Mika_Nakashima

Snow Bunny · Aug 12, 2008, 05:12 PM // 17:12

As we figured out last night, a W/R/R/Mo team wins AB.

Cripshot+IA Ranger+Magehunters Smash+Monk.

The cripshot can single handedly handle up to 5 players at a time, and the Magehunters Smash should be killing while the cripshot locks players down.

The IA ranger is amazing at solo capping.

Our other teams were bad, but I think at one point JD, Swirly and I were simultaneously holding off two cap groups from Warrior and Ranger shrines on Etnaran while Evyl capped. It was pretty slick.

glacialphoenix · Aug 12, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Mika Nakashima O

I was also talking about the allied PUG teams whose builds you cannot check before game

Well, then, you just have to be flexible and try to fit into their battle tactics. If the two other groups seem more inclined to cap, then maybe something like holding a mob off to give them time to cap might be useful. If they're not capping, your party has to be the one running around killing NPCs and capping shrines. If they totally fail to notice the enemy monk, maybe ping the monk a couple of times (in the hope that one of them notices).

Since you never see the other two teams until game starts, you'll just have to improvise. They might not look at the builds, and there might be a leecher, or someone who totally fails to cooperate with his team regardless of all attempts. That bit, I think, is luck, and you can't do a thing about the bad players in other teams since you're already ingame. Best you can get is to make sure your team is decent, which ups the chance of you winning.

Turbobusa · Aug 12, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I also tried an IA ranger. As snow bunny said it is very effective at solo capping, but I can't really comment on its effectiveness if there is no crpshot in the team since I fail pretty hard at rangers.
But flatbow + apply + IA = dead shrine

O Mika Nakashima O · Aug 12, 2008, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Mouse at Large, Smurf Minions, Tyla

Thanks

Robbert Monga, fireflyry

Ok...

Lexar

I rarely ask people to ping in AB

AKB48

Quote:

but it also destroys the reason that some people AB. As for ragequitters, I think it's more fun to comeback in the end than having a clean slate win.(once we were down to like 305-480, and we capped and kept all the shrines so we won by like 500-490)

Agreed~

glacialphoenix

Quote:

I treat build pings as good, but not necessary

Agreed too~

Robbert Monga

...

Lykan

From my experience, I have impression those who ping in AB are not active/exp ABers, could be exp in other PvP areas though.

Nightow

Good question. I ping where I go so the allies can see and I avoid over-cap with them

Unreal Havoc, glacialphoenix

Maybe it's time to develop a multilingual quick reference first: e.g., how do you say "cap" & "don't mob" in X languages?

Lexar

lol

Unreal Havoc

Quote:

AB is a game where 12 people get together as a TEAM, if you're out playing for yourself only then you shouldn't be in AB in the first place imo

O_O

upier

As the others pointed out, it's limited to party members

fireflyry

Quote:

Taking ten minutes to argue over builds

Sigh yeah...

Unreal Havoc

Kill and win?

Nightow, upier

Yep, thanks

O Mika Nakashima O · Aug 12, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Turbobusa

Yeah

Bobby2, Nightow, Kawil, Bobby2

I prefer English

tmakinen

Classic!

/salute

Snow Bunny

Ok

(monk shrine?)

glacialphoenix

NVM...

Turbobusa

I haven't seen them in AB yet hmmmm

phan · Aug 12, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I don't argue about builds ;

if he doesn't ping : kick
if his build suck : kick
if he says my build suck : kick
if he doesn't have above 550 life : kick
if he spams his 15 sets of tormented items : kick

If you are leader of the group ; abuse your power [or the power of the hierarchy]to win time .

It's ab ; not rocketscience .
Don't waist time with noobs there are enough players out there .

And the most important rule of all don't play ab ; it's rubbish

AzNChicken · Aug 12, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

I don't argue about builds ;

if he doesn't ping : kick
if his build suck : kick
if he says my build suck : kick
if he doesn't have above 550 life : kick
if he spams his 15 sets of tormented items : kick

If you are leader of the group ; abuse your power [or the power of the hierarchy]to win time .

It's ab ; not rocketscience .
Don't waist time with noobs there are enough players out there .

And the most important rule of all don't play ab ; it's rubbish

lol, as bashful as it may seem, that is pretty much my strategy as well. I'm with this guy

. Well, cept for the rubbish part.

Lexar · Aug 13, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

The best tactic to win, in my opinion, has absolutely, absolutely (twice for emphasis) nothing to do with builds, being a self proclaimed leader (seriously thats needlessly frustrating in a pug group), nothing to do with silly oversimplified rules of thumb such as 'ONLY CAP = WIN' or 'DONT RUSH AVOID TEH FIGHTZ'. No, none of that. All of this is just ways people use to differentiate themselves from what they consider casual players (and as a result feel better about themselves) who probably don't exchange their opinions on message boards.

No, the best tactic is to play a lot, with low expectations, and with the right people.

Well, playing a lot will make you understand how fleeting and unimportant a loss or a win is the bigger picture, what's that 5k faction for a donation if you're going to donate millions?

Low expectations, just assume, up front, that there's not going to be great tactics. If you're going to win it's not because of your supposedly great tactic because that only influences at best 33% of your side. Be humble and honest about this. No, if you win a match is simply because the other side sucked more than your side. That's all there is to it. Seriously, if you have a team that doesn't have a leecher or rager, and have 4 people who can find the exit to the spawn area together, you have an above average team already. Count your blessings.

As for the right people, how do you find them? Well, look around for people making the right choices in the heat of the moment. They're the type that can think for themselves and have a good eye for the environment. That's the difference between a good player and an average one.
An average player will get ambushed by an incoming crowd visible on the radar for example, or not understand the tell-tale animation signs when a caster is starting to nuke. Can they hide behind the terrain to block arrows when they're low on health? Can they weigh the pro's and cons of fighting and using skills in a single glance when they have hexes on them? You'll find players of this calibre if you look for them, but you won't recognise them by their build.
There's one HUGE thing people tend to overlook in making effective builds for AB, that's the human element. I always use the same example for this, a skill like riposte. I'm sure just mentioning this will immediatly set many people off to say OMGNUB, but if you consider that players in AB actually fall for that kind of thing, and that a skill like that actually works really well if you know how to draw attention to yourself, then ask yourself who really knows about AB? It's just the way it is that warriors attract other melee people to fight them, that's the way people think. It shouldn't work that well in an ideal scenario, but it's just a reality that it does. Same applies to ele's with mesmer skills or healing skills, let's face it, even though it's not theoretically the most effective way to use skills, it just works because you're less of a priority target. There's so many more examples of builds and ideas that take advantage of a human element in AB that people (also on this forum) often completely overlook or underestimate.

Anyways that's the way I feel about this. People who take long to set up their team because they have 'higher standards' just end up being more desillusioned when they get owned, especially because the other teams probably didn't even bother to look at each other's skills.

So in short the tactic to win is, surround yourself with people who are smart and can think on their feet, and not with people who play by the book and follow a set of simplistic rules that they think should work.

AzNChicken · Aug 13, 2008, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

So in short the tactic to win is, surround yourself with people who are smart and can think on their feet, and not with people who play by the book and follow a set of simplistic rules that they think should work.

And a good first impression for that, is to see what type of build they run. And don't think I just boot right off the bat; if I see something and ask if they could switch a couple skills or something and they don't know what the skill is under or don't have it unlocked then they obviously don't have enough experience for my "standard." Isn't just a quick boot on a bad build is what I'm trying to say (in response to your part on builds), well sometimes it is. Don't mean to be a jerk (maybe a little), but I don't agree with you at all

.

To be honest, you havn't AB'd with myself and a few guildies of mine, so you can't understand the standard I'm used to. I like to win for my title.

FoxBat · Aug 13, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

I think Ensign had some saying that "you should prepare for the strongest opponents" but really, that's only applicable in GvG, where the key to success is not losing. Gimmickways thrive in TA/HA in large part because the system rewards you for wins per time, while basically ignores your losses. Thus winning quickly is more important than not losing. Same counts when looking at faction from AB, and it's only more true when 2/3rds of your team is random. If you can find sufficient people fast enough then great, if its taking you 5+ minutes then your time is not well spent.

Still, having a healer and a group that can coordinate and stick together as needed is a big deal, and also knowing where to go when. Add some random healer in there and the rest of the composition doesn't matter much. Trying to find that in a pug is usually asking for trouble though.

tmakinen · Aug 13, 2008, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Still, having a healer and a group that can coordinate and stick together as needed is a big deal, and also knowing where to go when. Add some random healer in there and the rest of the composition doesn't matter much. Trying to find that in a pug is usually asking for trouble though.

Very true. This leads to my fifth rule of AB PUGs that I have already mentioned elsewhere:

Be a monk. A decent monk in a PUG is the biggest force multiplier you can hope for, and the only guaranteed way to get one is to play one. Unlike in some other forms of PvP leading in AB synergizes well with monking since you must keep track of other team members' positioning anyway, and most of the leading happens while you don't have to monk and vice versa.

There is one issue with monking for a PUG though - don't give too good a service or your team members might think that they are invincible and do stupid things (well, even more stupid than the usual fare anyway). I remember how after one fight a player started to boast on all chat how he was the leetest PvPer ever, soloing a team of three enemies. Apparently the fact that the feat was possible only because I was there healing and protting his sorry behind to high heaven while simultaneously turning down the advances of the fourth member of that team who took interest in me never occurred to him. If your protege insists on solo tanking an enemy mob by all means let him - but not at your expense.

Lexar · Aug 13, 2008, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

To be honest, you havn't AB'd with myself and a few guildies of mine, so you can't understand the standard I'm used to. I like to win for my title.

Nope but I don't think I would like to anyway, probably too demanding

I think you're under the impression that you and your guildies are somehow more pro than I am, or most other players for that matter, but there's no real way to determine this, win/loss ratio isn't one of them, because you simply have no deciding influence over the majority of the battle. In the end the only thing that matters is making the most faction/hour, which brings me to this excellent point:

Quote:

If you can find sufficient people fast enough then great, if its taking you 5+ minutes then your time is not well spent.

Couldn't agree more.

AzNChicken · Aug 13, 2008, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Nope but I don't think I would like to anyway, probably too demanding

I think you're under the impression that you and your guildies are somehow more pro than I am, or most other players for that matter, but there's no real way to determine this, win/loss ratio isn't one of them, because you simply have no deciding influence over the majority of the battle. In the end the only thing that matters is making the most faction/hour

Yawn, how about that Michael Phelps?