Curse

Mouse at Large · Aug 07, 2008, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I have a philosophy as a relative newcomer to AB.

a) It's supposed to be enjoyable.
b) There is no perfect build/team.
c) Unless you are completely *cough*special*cough*, you will get better by learning from your mistakes.

As an ele, I'm still fiddling with builds to try to find something which gives me the balance between survivability and effective damage. Sure, I could dip into wiki, but I've been playing long enough to think for myself.

If I have a few failures along the way, so be it. I won't get discouraged, hopefully I'll get better instead.

Smurf Minions · Aug 07, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Imo the best in AB is, 3 X dommage (keep AoE low as it is only of use on npc's) and 1 X pro munk, other teams consist 50% of 4 nubs and 50% of 3 nubs and 1 nub monk, oh yeah and 1% off an decent team. If you go with the tactic: monk first, DONT as any decent monk has self defense (IE shield bash/return). Instead load adren or pressure a monk while some kind of melee that can spike (IE sins/shock axe/hammer war) try's to spike an ally of that monk, as they only watch themself and die fast you can just go around with your team capping and killing any who opposes, DONT CHASE anyone and cap == win win

Tyla · Aug 07, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Get a hammer Monk.

Get 2 AoE Smiters.

Get a ZB Prot.

The two smiters spam shit all over the hammer for big domage. Done.

Robbert Monga · Aug 07, 2008, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Disagreed.

If it was "essential" everyone would do it all the time as they did when it was first introduced.

I haven't been asked to ping a build in over a month...once...that was more my point.

I don't care what anyone thinks of my build, I care that they think they have a right to kick me or force build alterations because my build isn't specifically what they want.In my experience that attitude was predominate as opposed to my build being in anyway ineffective hence my assumption of why people aren't being forced to ping anymore.

You say it's more often because the build sucks.In my experience it's more often because it's not a recognized cookie cutter.

Example:

I was getting continually refused, kicked and laughed at because I was experimenting with an assacaster build ("lol omfg no dagger skillz and a staff...kick teh nub sin!!11!!"), then they became popular wiki-fodder and people started demanding it in build pings, was never kicked with the build again.

My original thoughts on build pinging still stand, because one player thinks a build sucks does not actually make it true and 95% of the time it's differing opinion and experience as opposed to justified complaint.As mentioned in my personal experience more often than not they just want cookie cutters or monks who will do nothing but spam heals at them as opposed to actually using the mechanic constructively.

At the end of the day I just don't get asked anymore, let alone demanded to or face being kicked.Thats relevant to me, more so than opposing opinion.

As for testing an AB build out on barrels as opposed to in-game where results actually matter....lol.

AB is neither serious business or top ten GvG and while Isle serves it's purpose it's logic that the real test of a build is in-game, not putting the smack down on dummies.

Anyway....

Your argument is fundamentaly wrong.

First of all - anyone has right to kick you... it is their team, and if you can't or don't want to roll what they need - get the hell out.

Second you argue that people think that your builds suck, but they in fact don't, and thats all because people are stupid... It is not up to you to decide what sucks and what doesn't. If you want to roll your build - make your own group.

Third. If you don't coordinate with your team, then beating on dummies will give you exactly the same effect. AB however isn't 1v1.

And last but not least. It seems my definition of a fail build is very much different from yours. I often have to go through a dosen of people before finding someone who has a useful bar. People consistantly fail in basic categories like having a running skill and/or IAS on melee bar, zero e-management with pack of energy heavy skills, having zero utility (overly defencive or overly agressive builds), having poor or zero synergy beween skills on ther bar, etc, etc... I wont even bring epic fails into this, of which there are plenty in AB districts.

Also on top of all that - bar ping is a readiness/responsivness sign. Person who joins group and goes afk or blatantly ignores requst to ping or being hardass about it, clearly will do no good for the team. If they fail first teamwork test, theres nothing else to discuss here - kthnxbai.

fireflyry · Aug 07, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I'll agree to disagree, it's not a question of right or wrong, as I was commenting on the fact I never get asked anymore, not looking to get into "I'm right, your wrong!!!" debate over it.

That mentality just kills constructive discussion and derails threads.

Take it easy.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

I have a philosophy as a relative newcomer to AB.

a) It's supposed to be enjoyable.
b) There is no perfect build/team.
c) Unless you are completely *cough*special*cough*, you will get better by learning from your mistakes.

As an ele, I'm still fiddling with builds to try to find something which gives me the balance between survivability and effective damage. Sure, I could dip into wiki, but I've been playing long enough to think for myself.

If I have a few failures along the way, so be it. I won't get discouraged, hopefully I'll get better instead.

Your the type of player I enjoy ABing with.

Good luck to you.

Lexar · Aug 08, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I've had people ask me to ping my build as a requirement to play with them but then I explain to them I'll just leave and find a more easy-going group. Funny enough they always prove me right because they make me out for noob or something of the sorts when I do that, local channel or whisper. In fact I think these groups have a higher probability of having ragequitters, you know, those people that leave at the start when you don't immediatly start winning?

AKB48 · Aug 08, 2008, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

I've had people ask me to ping my build as a requirement to play with them but then I explain to them I'll just leave and find a more easy-going group. Funny enough they always prove me right because they make me out for noob or something of the sorts when I do that, local channel or whisper. In fact I think these groups have a higher probability of having ragequitters, you know, those people that leave at the start when you don't immediatly start winning?

I had the same experience,(until r6) but honestly don't think ping your build would have any dramatic difference in the outcome of the battle. Sure, making everyone go a decent build will up the fighting, but it also destroys the reason that some people AB. As for ragequitters, I think it's more fun to comeback in the end than having a clean slate win.(once we were down to like 305-480, and we capped and kept all the shrines so we won by like 500-490)

glacialphoenix · Aug 08, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

I have a philosophy as a relative newcomer to AB.

a) It's supposed to be enjoyable.
b) There is no perfect build/team.
c) Unless you are completely *cough*special*cough*, you will get better by learning from your mistakes.

As an ele, I'm still fiddling with builds to try to find something which gives me the balance between survivability and effective damage. Sure, I could dip into wiki, but I've been playing long enough to think for myself.

If I have a few failures along the way, so be it. I won't get discouraged, hopefully I'll get better instead.

Where have you been all my AB life? ;_;

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

I've had people ask me to ping my build as a requirement to play with them but then I explain to them I'll just leave and find a more easy-going group.

I treat build pings as good, but not necessary. It's nice to see what the other guy is playing, and sometimes the person who doesn't want to ping his build is outright impolite or ready to scream things like I DON'T NEED TO PING MY BUILD TO U PVE NOOBS. That being said - I think being asked to ping is OK. Having a group start shrieking at you because you're not running the build they want is a pretty good cue to leave, though. Either way, yelling at you for being a noob for leaving is just rude and immature.

I actually had someone do that to me. "OMG Y R U NOT RUNNING THIS BAR NOOB" *ragequit.

Robbert Monga · Aug 09, 2008, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I'll agree to disagree, it's not a question of right or wrong, as I was commenting on the fact I never get asked anymore, not looking to get into "I'm right, your wrong!!!" debate over it.

then don't make wild claims about not asking to ping being good thing. People don't ask to ping because they either stupid or lazy. Both will fail miserably due to lack of any kind of coordination. Both will whine OMFG CAP JOO NUB MORONS!!! and blame everyone around but themselves. If thats your way of fun, then gl to you. I on the other hand like to have fun by winning, tyvm.

Lykan · Aug 09, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

Funny enough they always prove me right because they make me out for noob or something

Then you probably are one, last time I looked AB was a team game, if someone im playing with has a crap build its going to lessen our chances of winning. So if they wont show they arent a team player = Kick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Also on top of all that - bar ping is a readiness/responsivness sign. Person who joins group and goes afk or blatantly ignores requst to ping or being hardass about it, clearly will do no good for the team. If they fail first teamwork test, theres nothing else to discuss here - kthnxbai.

Exactly that, I like when someone joins and they say Hi and ping their build, it shows they are easy going and ready to play and more likely to be fun to play with.

Nightow · Aug 09, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Ok, serious question even though it seems a bit funny to me.

Communication obviously has it's role within the 3 teams on each side but what do you do when one or both of the other teams speak a language you don't know a lick of and refuse to do otherwise?

In b4 break out a translation book.

Unreal Havoc · Aug 09, 2008, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I politely request they to speak in english seems its a common universal language (and no I'm not english before anyone tries to pull that card).

Never works though, ignorance in team games is fail.

glacialphoenix · Aug 09, 2008, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I politely request they to speak in english seems its a common universal language (and no I'm not english before anyone tries to pull that card).

I usually get a reply in said language that I'm guessing means they can't speak English. It's happened in other areas besides AB - I've seen mad translating going on in places like Slaver's PUGs. Generally they kind of get what you mean when you ping "Player X is using Word of Healing!" multiple times, but it's very hard when you're trying to say something like "Go to the warrior shrine instead of following my team!"

I think I need a book of "How To Say You Don't Understand <Insert Language Here>" and have the phrase written out in just about every language used on GW.

Lexar · Aug 09, 2008, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Then you probably are one, last time I looked AB was a team game, if someone im playing with has a crap build its going to lessen our chances of winning. So if they wont show they arent a team player = Kick.

Well this works out great, I guess we're both the kind of players we like to avoid, so it'll never be a problem

Unreal Havoc · Aug 09, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mouse at Large

I have a philosophy as a relative newcomer to AB.

a) It's supposed to be enjoyable.
b) There is no perfect build/team.
c) Unless you are completely *cough*special*cough*, you will get better by learning from your mistakes.

As an ele, I'm still fiddling with builds to try to find something which gives me the balance between survivability and effective damage. Sure, I could dip into wiki, but I've been playing long enough to think for myself.

If I have a few failures along the way, so be it. I won't get discouraged, hopefully I'll get better instead.

There's a huge difference between experimentation, & utter failure.

Yes it is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, but where's the fun in losing because you can't (or won't) work with your team?

No team build is totally unbeatable, but if you make an attempt to synergise your team you will get alot further than those who do not, and will probably live longer on the battlefield too meaning less points for the opposing team.

Also if you can't take advice from other players who are actually experienced at AB (9/10 times the ones calling noob actually aren't) then you are kind of failing at "C" already.

AB is a game where 12 people get together as a TEAM, if you're out playing for yourself only then you shouldn't be in AB in the first place imo.

upier · Aug 09, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Ok, serious question even though it seems a bit funny to me.

Communication obviously has it's role within the 3 teams on each side but what do you do when one or both of the other teams speak a language you don't know a lick of and refuse to do otherwise?

In b4 break out a translation book.

May I suggest the universal language of mad drawing skill on the compass?

Always seems to work quite nicely in my teams. But then again - I am too lazy to type things down so I do lots of drawing. You just need to make it simple for people to understand:

Since that's pretty much all you need most of the time.
Ohh and keep in mind when drawing these things that YOU always need to go do the less obvious part.

fireflyry · Aug 09, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

then don't make wild claims about not asking to ping being good thing. People don't ask to ping because they either stupid or lazy. Both will fail miserably due to lack of any kind of coordination. Both will whine OMFG CAP JOO NUB MORONS!!! and blame everyone around but themselves. If thats your way of fun, then gl to you. I on the other hand like to have fun by winning, tyvm.

I was expressing an opinion and personal experience.

You took it seriously and jumped on the "I'm right, your wrong!!!" bandwagon while making sweeping generalizations those that don't bother = fail.Actually they just aren't as awesomely serious as you.

I win AB's, I don't get asked to ping, I don't ask people to ping.People are ready when they type "1".

If you decide to go through twelve people to find a build that you deem "worthy" I apologize for laughing my arse off.

Move on and lighten up bud.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

I had the same experience,(until r6) but honestly don't think ping your build would have any dramatic difference in the outcome of the battle. Sure, making everyone go a decent build will up the fighting, but it also destroys the reason that some people AB.

Agreed.

If I'm concerned with attaining perfect build synergy I AB with guildies or TA, HA, GvG, not force PuG's to conform to my standards "or else!!"

Each to their own, respectfully, but people who take AB, PvP designed for easy access and random team play, so seriously make me laugh and the fact remains I seldom get asked to ping these days and have been on some exceptionally skilled teams, ones where the definition of having fun is not confined to must win or getting the perfect team build before entering.

I guess the whole issue really revolves around ones personal definition of enjoyment and how seriously they approach AB.

I don't have an issue with either viewpoint, if asked I'll always ping and I'm seldom kicked on the basis of my build, but I am aware of trends and I do have a personal preference.

Taking ten minutes to argue over builds or fart around looking for an "acceptable" build type is not one of them.

Unreal Havoc · Aug 09, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

I guess the whole issue really revolves around ones personal definition of enjoyment and how seriously they approach AB.

I think that about sums it up.

Nightow · Aug 09, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

May I suggest the universal language of mad drawing skill on the compass?

Always seems to work quite nicely in my teams. But then again - I am too lazy to type things down so I do lots of drawing. You just need to make it simple for people to understand:

Since that's pretty much all you need most of the time.
Ohh and keep in mind when drawing these things that YOU always need to go do the less obvious part.

Thanks for the response but...

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_Battle

Quote:

Drawing on the map will only be seen by your team of 4, and no one else.

...So drawing on the map doesn't help when team 2 is talking in a language that I don't know of off the top of my head.

upier · Aug 09, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Thanks for the response but...

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_Battle

...So drawing on the map doesn't help when team 2 is talking in a language that I don't know of off the top of my head.

Great - I learned something new!
Thanks for that!

Edit:
Maybe I am psychic or something - since up to now everyone always did what I drew on my map ...

Edit 2:
Screw being psychic!
It's great minds thinking alike!