Curse

tmakinen · Aug 06, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

When talking about strategy, I'm most concerned about the initial deployment of troops and opening play. If your team is actually thinking ahead then it is fair to assume that it's the strongest one of the three. The question then is, when taking this into account which starting position it should claim?

I'm proposing the middle route on Saltspray and shallow maps, just because of the greater variety of options available. Defending deep, the best team should probably start by rolling the bridge while the other two fight for the isolated side shrines. Since clockwise movement of attackers is to be anticipated, should the initial attack to the bridge start from the left teleporter (in which case you may be able to cap the entire bridge without seeing any enemies) or from the center gate which gives a somewhat better access but will more likely result to fighting over shrine control?

Concerning the possibility of multiple initial caps (Saltspray and middle route on shallow defending), what is the strongest option? All 4 cap the closest shrine, then move to the next one and hope to reach it before enemies? 1 stays back to cap the first one while 3 go directly to the next one? Or a 2-2 split? In Saltspray, middle route, should you start with the dragon shrine or join one of the side teams for a 2-to-1 powerplay and once that side is secured roll the middle?

bungusmaximus · Aug 06, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

The downside is, of course, that PUGs will generally start to complain whether the build is:
- simply not cookie cutter

When they don't recognise a good build, cookiecut or not, theyre bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

- plain bad

In this case they're right imho, when I ask for a ranger I want some shutdown, and no heal party and whatnot. My team will fall apart because we have to eat all the damage from spells that could normally be interrupted.

AzNChicken · Aug 06, 2008, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

When talking about strategy, I'm most concerned about the initial deployment of troops and opening play. If your team is actually thinking ahead then it is fair to assume that it's the strongest one of the three. The question then is, when taking this into account which starting position it should claim?

I'm proposing the middle route on Saltspray and shallow maps, just because of the greater variety of options available. Defending deep, the best team should probably start by rolling the bridge while the other two fight for the isolated side shrines. Since clockwise movement of attackers is to be anticipated, should the initial attack to the bridge start from the left teleporter (in which case you may be able to cap the entire bridge without seeing any enemies) or from the center gate which gives a somewhat better access but will more likely result to fighting over shrine control?

Concerning the possibility of multiple initial caps (Saltspray and middle route on shallow defending), what is the strongest option? All 4 cap the closest shrine, then move to the next one and hope to reach it before enemies? 1 stays back to cap the first one while 3 go directly to the next one? Or a 2-2 split? In Saltspray, middle route, should you start with the dragon shrine or join one of the side teams for a 2-to-1 powerplay and once that side is secured roll the middle?

Talking about Saltspray, you usually prefer the middle group rush one of the resurrect shrines, however when my group plays this map we usually pick the left or right side. In a good match, you hope to have two strong teams on your sides, holding their side with the middle group roaming. Of course the opponents can be unpredictable with where or if a mob forms.

Jetdoc · Aug 06, 2008, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzNChicken

Talking Of course the opponents can be unpredictable with where or if a mob forms.

This is one of the biggest problems with Saltspray...since both of the routes to the far ends of the map have to go directly by the bridge (i.e. within range of ranged attacks), it's very easy for players to get "picked off" by the mob as they try to make it to the other end to take advantage of the mob mentality.

I'm leaning towards mobbing being the *gasp* preferred strategy in Saltspray, unless everyone on your team has a speed boost (or one person on your team has a group speed boost) to avoid the mob.

moriz · Aug 06, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

saltspray is simply too narrow for 3 teams to out-cap a single mob. most of the shrines are arranged on a straight line, and the four shrines outside of this line are easily reachable. trying to out-cap the mob on this map will require the 3 teams to take the longer paths, which allows the mob to consistently outrun them.

if anything, saltspray favours a 9-3 split instead of a 4-4-4 split. 9 people that does nothing but run between the two rez shrines, and 3 people run around to pick off stragglers and keep at least one of the 4 side shrines capped.

tmakinen · Aug 06, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

The linearity of Saltspray is indeed a problem. One could contemplate mobbing from get-go, i.e., deploying all three teams to the three respective shrines at one end, then pushing as a mob through the map back and fro. Unless the opponent is very coordinated, they will initially face an unfavorable 3-to-1 situation and once crushed will lose team integrity and thus the game. Should be worth trying at least.

O Mika Nakashima O · Aug 06, 2008, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Keekles

They should make the faction & gold (Z-keys) rates about the same

Or let's say, make AB faster faction rate and FF faster gold rate, or vice-versa. At least it seems balanced and fair, which is what A-net likes, I hope?

AzNChicken

Yes, faction rate doesn't mean a lot after the price drop of amber/jade and Deep/Urgoz. But when it comes to town ownership... QQ

Martin Firestorm

Quote:

I wish those were handled on separate title tracks

Too late~

N1ghtstalker

Yeah

Turbobusa

Quote:

lower the reward to be less than AB

Or as I mentioned above: AB faster faction rate and FF faster gold rate

At least be balanced & fair

glacialphoenix

In general, from my experience... The quality of a PUG could be estimated by the number of Healer/MM/Nuker they have, with no more than 2 healers or 2 MMs.

Unreal Havoc

Ok, has A-net ever commented on FFF?

bungusmaximus

Quote:

It's either a cookie cut I already know

Even until today, I'm still surprised by some good customized AB builds some players developed

AzNChicken

With the current rate and bot availabilty, it's like A-net/FFers telling ABers, "Your time isn't worth as much as FFers do." That's based on if factions and golds are really worthy

Martin Firestorm, bungusmaximus

...

Judge Nl, Bobby2

Yeah

tmakinen

Quote:

I'm most concerned about the initial deployment of troops and opening play

Yes, the opening determines the number of leavers

As well as the control of resources

Quote:

I'm proposing the middle route on Saltspray and shallow maps, just because of the greater variety of options available

I think the same

Quote:

should the initial attack to the bridge start from the left teleporter (in which case you may be able to cap the entire bridge without seeing any enemies) or from the center gate which gives a somewhat better access but will more likely result to fighting over shrine control?

In Canyon/Lands type, as defender, I tend to make it 4-3 or 5-2. That is, either 4-3 without bridge shrines or 5-2 without boost shrines. My general advice: Begin with 4-3 and end with 5-2

Quote:

Concerning the possibility of multiple initial caps (Saltspray and middle route on shallow defending), what is the strongest option?

Split/mob generally depends on how builds fit. 4-0, 3-1, 2-2: Need to collect data on which case gives the highest points to the first counts.

bungusmaximus

Ok...

AzNChicken

Quote:

you hope to have two strong teams on your sides, holding their side with the middle group roaming

Will you do the same when you're sure other two teams aren't strong?

Jetdoc, moriz

I have feeling now that Saltspray is the map designed for those who expect epic fight in AB

It should be, it's the fair map

tmakinen

Good point. After all, one side is Kurz territory and the other for Lux. It's again whether builds fit each other. For example you like 1 MM in epic fight and you don't like 3 MMs being together.

----------------------------------------

Kurzick AB-specialized [Mika] is recruiting FF/ABers and 1M+ guilds. Currently 3M factions, ~90 members, in 10M [Mika] alliance. PM "O Mika Nakashima O" or other Mikans for more details. Welcome to visit us @ http://mikanakashima.gamerdna.com & http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild:Mika_Nakashima

glacialphoenix · Aug 06, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote: