Curse

Bobby2 · Jun 21, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

Unless your team pushes through to the shrine, or your backline circles their agro radius to get in capture range, the NPC warriors will delay your capture every time.

Only the normal Wars do this. While they are drawn out I Dash into the shrine... the Elite always comes to its defense.

Why people just mindlessly engage in combat without deciding where to fight first has always puzzled me.

Red Sand · Jun 21, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Only the normal Wars do this. While they are drawn out I Dash into the shrine... the Elite always comes to its defense.

Agreed. We used to always engage the Elite to keep him busy, but we've found you that even if you ignore him, you can kill off the normals quickly while a squishy kites the Elite and get the turnover going.

But if you do the circle instead of the straight dash and stay outside his agro circle, I think the Elite will stay out front with the melees. I'll check it out with my squad and get back to you.

longhornrob · Jun 22, 2008, 09:05 AM // 09:05

I have spent a lot of time in Alliance Battles (Rank 7 Luxon, almost entirely from AB), and I’ve developed a couple of strategies that seem to work well when performed well. I’ve spent most of my AB life in either Grenz or Ancestral, the two maps that are stacked against me. Therefore, my strats for these maps are more fully developed. The strat for Grenz/Etnaran should be the same regardless of what side you are on. The same goes with Saltspray. Only Ancestral/Kanaai are different.

- Grenz/Etnaran Keys: The goal of this entire map is to control the center rez shrine. If you own the shrine, you own the map, because your side now has the advantage of quickly hopping to any of the six other shrines, while the other side can only quickly travel to three of the shrines.
- Your three groups should first cap the shrines closest to their respective starts. From there, it’s best to send 2 of the 3 groups to the rez shrine to ensure you get control of it as soon as possible. If the other side also brings 2 groups, then I would suggest pulling your third group to also aid in grabbing the rez shrine.
- If they bring all three groups, then Yum gets his Spartan battle. Either way, you have to control that shrine.
- After the rez shrine is yours, disperse the mob and grab any shrines that aren’t already yours. Any time you cap a shrine, immediately go back and make sure the rez is yours. If it isn’t, try to get it back, preferably with the help of a 2nd group.
- Rinse and repeat the above steps. If you control the rez shrine for most of the game, you should win the match.

- Ancestral Lands/Kaanai Canyon: This one is very tough to win as the invading team, by design. I’ll first go over how the invading team’s strat, and then follow up with the defender’s strat.
- The two groups starting off on the bridge should cap the middle and then defend the bridge constantly. If done successfully, you should never once leave the bridge. If you die, you will rez back on the bridge and you should continue to defend it unless the bridge has been mobbed by all 12 defenders and you realize you cannot win. The invading force can actually win 8v12 because of the existence of the two rez shrines.
- The other group should stay on the side of the map they started on, capping and recapping the two nearest shrines over and over again. This won’t be easy, and you will likely die a few times and lose the shrines a few times. That matters not, as long as the bridge remains well defended. If you control these two shrines for only 50% of the time, and the bridge remains defended, you are winning the shrine battle 4 to 3.
- The two inner shrines should be ignored. The goal is to keep control of the 5 outer shrines. You’ll just have to take those two shrines as the advantage the defending team holds over you.
- If the defending team mobs the bridge at the start of the match with all 3 groups, then the 2 bridge groups should still try and defend at whichever rez shrine they attack. If you fail miserably, then abandon the bridge as soon as possible and invade the base, capping those two shrines instead. If the mob responds to this, make your way back to the bridge and try to regain control of it again. This won’t be easy.
- If the bridge is mobbed and lost, the 3rd group should still retain control of their two shrines, but could assist for a short time by blowing up one of the doors with a keg. You shouldn’t help invade, though. 2 groups should be able to cap the two inner shrines.

- As the defending team, you have the advantage on this map. The quickest course to victory is to mob the holy living hell out of the bridge until it is yours. Once you control it, you pretty much have the game in hand unless you lose control of it soon afterwards.
- If for some reason you fail to invade it on the first try, cap the other 2 outer shrines, and then make sure the two inner shrines are still yours. Then, try again for the bridge, as it is the most vital piece of this map.
- Despite what is said, mobbing on this map, only as the defender, is a perfectly suitable strategy. Just mob the bridge and then head over and pin them into their only remaining rez area. Match over, unless they manage to slip by you and take over the bridge again. Mobbing does not work for the invading team because of where your rez areas are, and because it is more difficult to maintain control of the inner base.

- Saltspray Beach: I honestly can’t say I have a good strategy for this map, other than keeping control of the rez shrines again. I’ve probably played less than 5% of my matches on this map.

O Mika Nakashima O · Jul 10, 2008, 04:41 PM // 16:41

itsvictor

Thanks, and now die, Luxons

Rakim B

Thanks

Hermos

Huh

Red Sand

Thanks

Bobby2

Thanks

Red Sand

What's the result?

longhornrob

Quote:

The goal of this entire map is to control the center rez shrine

Not the only goal, but it is an important point

Quote:

If you own the shrine, you own the map

Obviously not in the case of 1v6 shrines -_-

Quote:

it’s best to send 2 of the 3 groups to the rez shrine to ensure you get control of it as soon as possible

Estimate your winning rate in a mob fight before going in. That is, quickly compare team formations of both sides. Also take 1) speed 2) orb 3) NPCs 4) boost 5) spawn into accounts.

Quote:

The two groups starting off on the bridge should cap the middle and then defend the bridge constantly

First you should check whether your team builds are better for cap or hold.

Quote:

The invading force can actually win 8v12 because of the existence of the two rez shrines.

NPCs, boost at mid, and the narrow bridge (you can also say it's higher ground with obstacles -_-). In POV of cappers, usually get the mid first and the defenders will break apart

Quote:

This won’t be easy, and you will likely die a few times and lose the shrines a few times

Yeah in other words, you'll depend on that team to be 4-3 or 3-4. It can be good or bad...

Quote:

The two inner shrines should be ignored

Unless you clean the base NPCs on walls and make sure you have a way out (for Canyon)

Quote:

then abandon the bridge as soon as possible and invade the base

Same as above, usually I don't take this risk though

Quote:

You shouldn’t help invade

Yeah don't mob

Quote:

As the defending team

Usually just circle cap and go in base when you have guests

Quote:

cap the other 2 outer shrines

Yeah

Quote:

mobbing on this map, only as the defender, is a perfectly suitable strategy

That works if your opponents are at average level

And...

Kurzick AB guild [Mika] is recruiting active & exp FF/ABers. Currently 2M factions, 80 members, in [CLAN] alliance. PM "O Mika Nakashima O" or other Mikains for further details. Welcome to visit us @ http://mikanakashima.gamerdna.com

Snow Bunny · Jul 10, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Just run a 4 ranger rspike team and 3,2,1 kill everyone you encounter.

Let everyone else do the work, playing AB seriously is reaaalllllyy boring.

It's pretty nice to 3,2,1 every person that enters your aggro bubble.

Or get everyone to mob into the other mob and you have an amazing 12v12+NPCs. That's really the only time AB gets amazing

O Mika Nakashima O · Jul 22, 2008, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Just run a 4 ranger rspike team and 3,2,1 kill everyone you encounter.

Thought experiment: If my team meets a ranger spike team in AB, then...
* Avoid fights in open area, keep running to the next shrine
* Few shrines are without obstacles. Play a fun game against ranged attacks in shrines with obstacles.
* Hope these rangers will eventually have fun in call-spiking innocent NPCs, while E/A is doing the boring job

Quote:

Let everyone else do the work, playing AB seriously is reaaalllllyy boring.

Playing GW seriously is fun. Especially if you use Vent to call you seem serious

Quote:

That's really the only time AB gets amazing

AB is amazing to me because it randomly mixes friend/pick-up groups on the same side. Commanding/communicating with 11-8 random people, in large maps, within limited time, is challenging. And the win of such coordination and chaos is amazing

English Warrior · Jul 22, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

In AB you win if you have a good build because you will be the only working one there

Saborath Gilgalad · Jul 23, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Just play smart.
-know when to just cap, and when to collapse on or defend a shrine.
-know when to push an opposing team and wipe them, and when wait for the opposing team to pass so you don't wipe ( whether your team or the opposing team is down for 10 seconds makes a big difference).
-know that it only takes 4 people to cap a shrine (many people don't seem to get this).
-know when to mob with another team if you need the extra push, but also know to un-mob once that push is completed.
-know to learn to use the shrines to your advantage whether it is fighting/defending in the cap radius, or using the shrine bonuses to help you, i.e. the Urns on Saltspray.
-Know what things need to die first, when fighting another team.
-know to have a team that addresses all/most of your needs that you have to accomplish in AB.
-know to be aware of your surroundings so you don’t get ganked (Use the U and the Mini Map).

Red Sand · Jul 23, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by O Mika Nakashima O

AB is amazing to me because it randomly mixes friend/pick-up groups on the same side. Commanding/communicating with 11-8 random people, in large maps, within limited time, is challenging. And the win of such coordination and chaos is amazing

The fact that a well run pickup group can take out a team build on Ventrilo shows that AB is challenging. If AB wasn't challenging, GvG and HA guilds would dominate it.

You can bring up the arguement that GvG/HA/TA players don't take AB seriously if you want, but I think that they tend to try and win just because that's how they are built. They just blame losing on the fact that "AB is not real PvP".

As far as the Elite warrior returning to the shrine, so long as my squishies stay outside of the Elite's agro circle they seem to stay engaged with the frontline... at least until an Ele tosses an AOE nuke. Go figure.

around · Jul 24, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

The fact that a well run pickup group can take out a team build on Ventrilo shows that AB is challenging.

Or your have problems with your team build...

Quote:

If AB wasn't challenging, GvG and HA guilds would dominate it.

Pretty sure when the double faction weekend was going on dR was raking up the towns.

Quote:

You can bring up the arguement that GvG/HA/TA players don't take AB seriously if you want, but I think that they tend to try and win just because that's how they are built. They just blame losing on the fact that "AB is not real PvP".

GvG'rs aren't some kind of mythical ubermensch who solely want to win at the exclusion of everything else, like fun.

AKB48 · Jul 24, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

yep I agree
AB is pretty much: whichever team that cap the fastest with a slight edge in pvp skirmishes. (So that your team can go cap the next shrine instead of waiting 16sec to be rezzed)

But when people started to fight each other and ignore capping shrines, well, you guys know what happens.

The landscape affects the way the matches turn out(duh,). But it's only to a certain extent since it is well possible to win in both Ancestral Lands(Kuz) and Kaanai Canyon(Lux).

bungusmaximus · Jul 24, 2008, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

yep I agree
AB is pretty much: whichever team that cap the fastest with a slight edge in pvp skirmishes. (So that your team can go cap the next shrine instead of waiting 16sec to be rezzed)

Only a slight? meh, lots of skirmishes kicking people off my shrines, they're my shrines you know, when people want their own they better buy them or they get hammer in face, nnnngah! Sometimes when I just capped, there's a team waiting to cap it back right at the edge of the radar. That's a moment where I would fight (provided ofc there's a relistic chance of winning that fight).

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

GvG'rs aren't some kind of mythical ubermensch who solely want to win at the exclusion of everything else, like fun.

You, good sir, speak the truth, I'm a mythical Übermensch, and I can't gvg worth squat

.

glacialphoenix · Jul 24, 2008, 07:42 AM // 07:42

1. People need to know how to target. Far too often I've seen someone take on the warrior when the monk is right behind him healing happily away.

2. Don't stand in AoE if you can help it. Today I just nuked out an entire shrine with six people in it because they let me string an entire AoE chain without moving. Man, more power to the people I'm playing against if they want to do that, but people on my team do that, too...

Red Sand · Jul 24, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

Or your have problems with your team build...

I agree.

Quote:

GvG'rs aren't some kind of mythical ubermensch who solely want to win at the exclusion of everything else, like fun.

I pretty much agree with that too, but there are a lot of posts on these boards made by GvG/TA/HA players who slam AB for not being "real PvP".

lord of all tyria · Jul 24, 2008, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Run around while roleplaying, duel for honour.

bungusmaximus · Jul 24, 2008, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sand

I agree.

I pretty much agree with that too, but there are a lot of posts on these boards made by GvG/TA/HA players who slam AB for not being "real PvP".

Does it even matter, as long as it's fun, I play it. I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep over some guy I never even seen before that calls me a scrub because I like AB. LOL I could be the best player in the world and still like AB.
I like playing in HA as well, I love TA, does it matter at all? meh...

Tyla · Jul 25, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

To be honest, I think alot of top players play AB. I've seen plenty of trim guilds and other known guilds in AB before.

As for it being challenging, part of that argument is because you can have 1/3 of your team being organised, but the rest are usually PuGs.

Although I do love playing Cripshot there. With Hunter's Shot, you can even apply cheap and easy to apply bleeding, atleast for AB. -7 degen and a snare is good. Oh, and you can also use that instead of Savage for spreading poison.

Krill · Jul 27, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

To be honest, I think alot of top players play AB.

I have also noticed a lot of good players in AB taking a break or maybe just having some laughs, it's fun to discuss awful builds and players on vent with guildies. With other formats sucking so much lately it's nice to go into AB with a build you like to play and have some fun. That's what RA used to be but it's full of ultra-mega serious business glad farmers now =/

Bobby2 · Jul 27, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

That's what RA used to be but it's full of ultra-mega serious business glad farmers now =/

Aren't they all running Shovespike in TA?

fireflyry · Jul 28, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

For the love of god attack the MM first and not the minions!

After a couple of hours in AB tonight I felt this had to be mentioned after seeing a few teams wack away at Golems.

I also think that defense is totally viable on certain maps or obviously if your leading.I've seen a lot of matches switch when a winning team gets a good lead and then mass mobs the base instead of keeping an eye on caps and solo nukers.I always tend to stay back and keep an eye out and usually get a few nukers or stray runners as a result who otherwise may have solo-capped.

I've also had a lot of success and quick kills camping spawn points when leading and when my team is in cruise control, also a great way to catch out nukers and keep that lead.

Another tactic I often employ which you haven't mentioned is fishing for over extension, especially towards a capped shrine, ideally an ele shrine.

If in a 4v4 situation I often find it pretty easy to distract players and grab their aggro to then run them towards a shrine and away from any healers on my team, it can also work in "skimming" players off the side of a mob.Many are suckers for trying to chase Sins or any other squishy down and will often die in the attempt leaving you free to re-join the fight with a fully charged skill bar.

I've repeatedly netted 2-3 kills in a row using this method having had not touched a skill.