Curse

kostolomac · Jan 02, 2009, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I agree with Arya , the skill balance although with good intentions caused quite an imbalance. Let's hope the next one is better.

TrippieHippie89 · Jan 02, 2009, 02:45 PM // 14:45

If your team is half decent you should have 0 problem with this heroway...sure, they d-shot your rush to keep you locked in frenzy and are 110% impossible to beat...but last i checked they spam mindlessly though shame, diversion, vor, backfire, etc etc etc etc

And like the monk fella said on page 1...sit your lazy ass down and make a build for once in your life that doesnt involve you pushing the "B" button

good luck with getting your bambi <3

hurric · Jan 02, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

When a build run by a team with 2 heros without vent can interrupt all skills, blind, remove hex and conditions and strip of all enchantments (which a human player cannot run as well as the hero), it shows the build is overpowered and needs a nerf.

8 human players on vent should almost always win against a smite/tease way but it's not the case because AI can interrupt and apply weapon of shadow much better than any human would.

stop saying make a build to counter it because it's not the point.

Heroes should be disabled in HA altogether but again all those people who rely on teaseway to farm their rank would cry if that happens.

Draikin · Jan 02, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by hurric

AI can interrupt and apply weapon of shadow much better than any human would.

Except that they can't. Interrupts on 1/4 casts are possible but those are very rare and they'll often miss interrupts on 3/4 casts. A player that had some practice at interrupts and, of course, a good ping will interrupt skills more often than a hero will. I would also hope that real players know how to use Weapon of Shadow on an ally that is nearby an attacking foe instead of simply staring at health bars the entire game.

I've said it before, the issue here isn't that the AI is better than real players, it's that they're good enough at running particular skill bars to make them viable in PvP. Particularly the skill bars where they can "cheat" to make up for their many flaws that make them inferior to real players. Not that I'm against removing heroes from HA and GvG (they have no place in those formats), but I do hope people realize that this means there will be less matches due to the lack of heroes to fill empty places on a team. That's why it might be worthwhile to look for an alternative in the form of henches with new skill bars that are designed to be just "good enough" to only match the skill level of beginners.

Arya Nibelrund · Jan 02, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Me/rt or me/nec heroes or even smiter heroes are MUCH better than any human that's playing or that has played this game (humans are only better PD mesmers because they know what to interrupt and what not to). If you don't realize this then you have never really played HA.

Barrett · Jan 02, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

I heard mindless jobs were given to heroes? >.> Honestly would you stick someone on a tainted necro if you have 6 people?

Honestly lets face it HA is dead move it back to 6v6 have it so you can take as many henchman/heroes as you want and just go... That way I don't have to find idiot PuGs who cant spam 123.

Bring Back 6v6?
6v6 was never there to bring back
it started as 8v8 they put 6v6 on temporarily and they didnt keep it
because it was Cr*p
i doubt they are gonna revert it back again
and tbh i dont think they should

Draikin · Jan 02, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arya Nibelrund

Me/rt or me/nec heroes or even smiter heroes are MUCH better than any human that's playing or that has played this game

You can't be serious.

Killed u man · Jan 02, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

You can't be serious.

It's common sence.

You're generalizing the intire AI batch by looking at a small range of builds they CAN'T run.

Offcorse, when you let a hero run HB Monk, or PD mesmer, he'll fail beyond comparison. When you give a hero frenzy, he usually either keeps it up 24/7, or sometimes never uses it in a match...

The question isn't wether or not heroes are better than real players, which is what you're anwsering too, it's wether or not they are better than real players on CERTAIN BARS, and then the anwser is a downright: "YES, WAY BETTER!".

You clearly didn't see the Me/N bars, but ONLY a hero can use Chillblains, rip enchant, etc at such high effieciency... A real player MIGHT come close, but a hero will nearly always perfom better on such bars...

Truegen · Jan 02, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

You can't be serious.

He is and I agree...I agree to the extent that they play better than most groups deserve. r<6 groups can add Mesmer heroes that play like r9+, which basically says "kthx for gaining all that fame, go battle the AI now (which is as good as you now) in this r2 smiteway w/ no vent LOL!"

Idc who you run with; idc if they're r6+ or r12+ but the point is that they play those bars better and multi-task with exponentially less errors than 3/4 of the players you're gunna pick up as pugs

Draikin · Jan 02, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I guess there's not much point in arguing about whether or not heroes are better than even the most experienced players at running certain skill bars when I don't actually disagree about removing them from HA and GvG. I'll just agree that they're too good at what they're supposed to do in HA, and that's basically to act as an inferior replacement for a real player. If there's no incentive for teams to search for a real player and they just take a hero instead, then they're basically preventing people from playing. I can definitely understand that this is a concern for PuGs. Like I said though, you'll need an alternative to heroes. Providing more henches (currently there are only 4 henches with horribly outdated and inefficient skill bars) with "reasonable" skill bars could be the answer to that, so I think that might be worth looking into.

II disaster II · Jan 02, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

every1 wants heroes out of ha/gvg ...rumors say that they wont be able to get in ha or gvg after the next update(not pretty sure about it) but at least prevent gwen from teasing my mesmer's pd (*makes a point*) anyhow yes heroes are better from 3/4 of pugs/regular ha players but not entirely...(no common sence,mindless spamming on some skills etc...)hope they get removed although i assume there is no prob beating em ,it's just players>computer..

K Y O · Jan 07, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

People use heroes and will continue to use heroes when heroes' AI > human intelligence. Sorry, Gwen is just better than at the game.

II Lucky Charm II · Jan 07, 2009, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Anet only allows heroes into HA b/c there's not enough players in HA ever since they changed the old favor system. Link the hall of heroes with the favor system and more players will begin to flow into HA. Plus, there's no point in having heroes in this game anyway. It kills the game! As we have already know ever since GW:EN came out, less and less players start to play with each other since they don't need to. Why? They have NPC to play with them. Just remove heroes from the game.

Truegen · Jan 08, 2009, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Well heroes in PvE i'm fine with, because there are a ton more failbots in PvE that use stoneflesh and firestorm on a R/E than in HA. But heroes are broken, and instead of trying to fix them we need to just remove them from a PLAYER vs. PLAYER atmosphere. Who cares if it drops the amount of people that play in HA...the one's who truly care enough about it to stick with it and develop actual honest-to-God skills are the ones that should be HA'ing, not any scrub with a me/rt hero

hurric · Jan 11, 2009, 09:48 AM // 09:48

of course izzy never follows GW1 anymore so he has no idea HA has turned into a craphole with all the teams running the exact same build where players do not need skill and teams run 4 monks and me/rts.
there's absolutely no creativity/difference in builds and is so damn boring. I'm personally ready to switch to PvE because there's zero fun in playing the exact same build a million times. he might be trying to put the last nail in the coffin in HA on purpose.

LifesRestorer · Jan 11, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

i guess it's so they don't have to make it in GW2 as everyone will think it's a shithole, therefore no one will demand it

Ka Tet · Jan 12, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

i guess it's so they don't have to make it in GW2 as everyone will think it's a shithole, therefore no one will demand it

Looks like this thread has been brought to a definitive conclusion.
On the bright side, you can play Tiger Woods golf online.

Knight O Cydonia · Jan 12, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...9_January_2009

Quote:

The Community Team has been catching up on feedback from when our offices were closed due to the holidays. In particular, the Community Team has again relayed feedback asking developers for the removal of Heroes in GvG/HA, as well as the continued issues with synching in RA.

GTFO Ogden.

Dronte · Jan 12, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight O Cydonia

Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...9_January_2009

GTFO Ogden.

I'll f*ckin love Anet if they remove the retarded heroes. Or at least me/rt-s hahahahahaahha

Ben-A-BoO · Jan 12, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight O Cydonia

Taken from http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...9_January_2009

GTFO Ogden.

Oh yes babe yes!!!
And please make sure you bury them deeeeeep...