Curse

Alexandria · Dec 30, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

and well, i have found my anti teaseway build that is also viable vs other teams.

I'd really like to see this "anti teaseway build that is also viable vs other teams" that you've come up with.

Skyros · Dec 30, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

i think its called teaseway

Truegen · Dec 30, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monk Gsb

i love the way you have kept your make 1 bar for 8 ppl spike mentality...... /sigh

ok your retarded, and well, i have found my anti teaseway build that is also viable vs other teams. so im gonna leave you with your constant QQing and pointless arguing.

peace out.

Aw, but it was such a pleasure to have you around...

Anyhow people please don't lose sight of what this thread is about, as GSB clearly has. This is a not a "Cry about teaseway" thread; rather, this is a thread allowing people to voice their (hopefully agreeing) opinions about both the current AI and possible removal of heroes from all PvP except Hero Battles (aptly named)

Come on guys, back to hero bashin'

kedde · Dec 31, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

K done.

Heroes RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fail.
They can't kite THE PARTICLE CANON...

Apok Omen · Dec 31, 2008, 02:38 AM // 02:38

It's called ION CANNON!

Get it right.

/revert Tease

There should never be an energy stealing cry of frustration....

Phe Belladona · Dec 31, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

tease is sooooooo not the problem...

Trinity Fire Angel · Dec 31, 2008, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by here to troll

give heros aussie pings

maybe give everyone aussie pings... that way, everyone is brought back to the same reaction time and rate us aussies have. heros seem ungodly because they have 0 ping. you wouldn;t beleive the difference monking and interupting has on your gameplay when you come from 300-500ms down to 38ms from australia to europe. all of a sudden it all seems much easier.

on topic, give heros an element of human reaction or ping delay. then they are restricted to natural delay that us human beings have.

other than that, i prefer to have heros in PVP. having to micro 1 or two heros and also play makes you need to think about the position and skills that 3 people normally play.... gogoubermicroskillzggthxftw

Apok Omen · Dec 31, 2008, 05:26 AM // 05:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

tease is sooooooo not the problem...

I know it's not all of the problem, but it's a part of it. AI will always have the upper hand at interrupts, auto-targetting, and obedience. You can't simply mess with the AI to worsen its reflexes. It would be like telling someone to wait before running from a ravenous tiger just to give the slower kids a chance to get ahead of you.

And heroes are there for fillers. Not the best system, but it's not the worst. Nerfing skills is easier than nerfing AI. Smiters and weapon spells have been an annoyance for a long time, and the fact that heroes are better than 80%of the population at using these mechanics is just more aggravating.

The problem with heroways (teaseways and smiteways now) is that they are built to counter any counter. Hexes, conditions, and even spikes just backfire. Pressure from these builds is simply waiting for Tease to hit monks on infuse/HP or RC/SB then scoring one kill, or waiting for Smites to hit a huge ball of people(ION CANNON).

Simply nerfing/reverting Tease and limiting Smiting power will have an effect.

Phe Belladona · Dec 31, 2008, 05:34 AM // 05:34

i cant believe i need to repeat myself but anyway:

tease is sooooo not the problem

since you cant see why it isnt.. no its too late and im going to bed, if someone would like to tell you its up to them. but i am right the skill tease is not overpowered.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 31, 2008, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Tease is so overpowered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Xeng Suey · Dec 31, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Allrighty...! lets see if we can make the points here:

1. remove heroes from GvG and HA battles. Heroes, by them selfs can play better then majority of humans, since it happens many times that obviously less skilled teams win better skilled teams only because of the heroes. More, given that PvP battles are ment to be a competitive environment for people to play against each other, why not remove heroes from GvG and HA ? Because heroes alow to form aparty when not enought people are online? Thats pure bulls!t! So many times we see low rank people trying to get a team...doesent they diserve a chance? If u say: "OMG! how can u say that? cant u see majority of new people in HA is not so leet then me and/or my leet team mates?" I would answer:" If ur the leetest in HA Does it matter to HA when not in PrimeTimes (6pm GMT till 1am GMT) ?? what does it matter winning fame/ winning halls when "bad" people are playing? Just you can say your the best among all nubies...? Meh...!!!!!! "

2. skills are not the issue here. The way skills are used and the exact moment to use them are the way to the victory and sucess of your team. So dont blame this or that skill because u lack in skill to counter it or even use that skill (or sets of skills). Skills by themselfs dont win games the way and the moment you use them will!

3.I'll type this point in a way of a question because i think this was answered in the forum allrdy but i cant find it whatsoever: Why not remove heroes/henchs from HA/GvG, like i said before, but alow to take 7 with you in PvE (or 11 heroes in case of Urgoz/The Deep)? This way people could try theyr own stuff in pve and not take henchies wich limit a bit the builds...what? u gunna say pve gets easier with all heroes party? yeah it migh, but who said pve was hard stuff (no ofense to anyone)?

4. pls finish with the retarded and poor flamewars...that adds nothing to the game. ty!

My english is bad. excuse my lack of skillto type english. gl hf

Killed u man · Dec 31, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Skills obv. arn't the problem.

If it's not Tease that is getting abused, people will simply run CoF, and any other elite.

It's the fact that EVERY interrupt they use, goes through, and hurts you, aswell as the fact that are godly when it comes down to smite skills.

The same a hero is godly running a AoE skill, because the AI ONLY triggers when more than XX people are around the target, he is godly running "defensive AoE" skills.

Whenever a hero uses Smite Condition, you can be sure you'll see the red bars go down on your team, aswell for Smite Hex. And once again, it's NOT these skills that are the problem, it's the Hero AI that KNOWS EXACTLY who to Smite Condition of in order to hit the most amount of people, aswell as simple being godly with the removals themselves. (Blind stays on for about a second, the time it takes to cast Smite Condition.

As also said before, toming hero AI down IS a possiblity, but simply impratical towards A.net's side, you're better off simply removing heroes alltogether from PvP. (HB is NOT PvP, it's simply an elite form of PvE)

It worked fine BEFORE NF, heck, as I recall GW was ALOT better before NF, so why not go back to basics, because evidence shows it was a better game back then. This is a step in the good direction...

Lomi79 · Dec 31, 2008, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

It worked fine BEFORE NF, heck, as I recall GW was ALOT better before NF, so why not go back to basics, because evidence shows it was a better game back then. This is a step in the good direction...

They should do that a long time ago IMO. Putting heroes to pvp was the biggest mistake made from anet, I mean pvp is to play agains other ppl no matter what(not enought ppl for teams and jokes like that, like it was said..just lower your rank req and you can get ppl easily).
So all they should do now to get more ppl back to HA is to they remove heroes from HA and put old school HA system back to the game(old school maps and HoH)

sorry for bad english

lustnlood · Dec 31, 2008, 04:48 PM // 16:48

ok... first of all i would like to congratulte ANET for creating such an awsome and advanced AI... i've never seen this in any other game i've played.

however, ANET has to realise that, even though allowing heroes in HA was purely out of good intention, they are seriously unbalancing the meta.

just today i fought vs crystal story's extremely powerful balanced and rolled it flawlessy. treu we had some good monks but come on.. we are taking about the elite of HA here.

my suggestion: abolish heroes from HA.. they are not wanted.

another think that does not have anything to do with smiteway is hexway. hexway is another overpowering build... a team could have as much as 8 hexes on every single person in the team. Peace and harmony just wont cut it because you will be wasting a monk spot and that would do more damage to your team.

fix that. i haven't come up with an idea as of yet but it needs fixing too.

another thing... fix paragons ffs. how many times am i gonna keep sayig the same things over and over.

Truegen · Dec 31, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I'm not even that concerned with hexway, because it's run (mostly) by humans that make human mistakes (although it still infuriates me to watch Masters and Livia N/Rt their way to victory). I have less of a struggle containing and beating hexway than I do Teaseway or Smiteway

The point I want to make is that if the bar can't be run as flawlessly by humans as it is by heroes (Me/Rt Teaser, Mo/N Smiter) then it's either A) Overpowered (not the case at all) or B) Run too well by heroes

The moment you remove heroes from HA you will never see Tease again...Which aggravates me that heroes make it so leet.

And a little P.S. while we're on the note of unnecessary buffing...Aura of the Lich? Wtf? Free-Minion-Factory-With-Tons-Of-Healing-And-AoE-Spike-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go-go

But that's beside the point

LifesRestorer · Jan 01, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

i just had 6 matches in a row against RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing heroway which has once again gotten more defensive by adding a PnH hero with like 7 RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ench removes and life sheath monk.

None of these matches lasted under 10 mins. those 1 and 2 fame matches were so RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing fun to play, and even more rewarding eh...

TOMBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Ka Tet · Jan 02, 2009, 01:39 AM // 01:39

This thread is kind of pointless. The same arguments were made before. Polls were conducted. There was even a 2 hour sit -in in ID1 that shut HA down for 2 hours, b/c people couldn't form teams. What did we get from all of that? A reduction of maximum amount of heros per team from 4 to 2.
At this point, the majority of the good balanced players (who remained in the game or made their way up after the earlier ha/gw rage-fests) raged HA, if not the game. I'd guess that very few of them would come back, even if the entire laundry list of HA problems was addressed and corrected.
Also, I hate to go offtopic, but everytime I look at a thread I see Borat masturbating with a mirror, and it's getting pretty annoying. You can't spike your fame, then try to lay claim to being king of the game. Especially given the quality of players who currently ha. Being a big fish in a small pond, does not mean you're a shark. It means you're a trout. Take the hook out of your mouth, and you may find that many people agree with points you've made, but feel the need to harrass you because you behave like an egotistical twit.
Peace;
Ka

kostolomac · Jan 02, 2009, 10:57 AM // 10:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lustnlood

ok... first of all i would like to congratulte ANET for creating such an awsome and advanced AI... i've never seen this in any other game i've played.

however, ANET has to realise that, even though allowing heroes in HA was purely out of good intention, they are seriously unbalancing the meta.

just today i fought vs crystal story's extremely powerful balanced and rolled it flawlessy. treu we had some good monks but come on.. we are taking about the elite of HA here.

my suggestion: abolish heroes from HA.. they are not wanted.

another think that does not have anything to do with smiteway is hexway. hexway is another overpowering build... a team could have as much as 8 hexes on every single person in the team. Peace and harmony just wont cut it because you will be wasting a monk spot and that would do more damage to your team.

fix that. i haven't come up with an idea as of yet but it needs fixing too.

another thing... fix paragons ffs. how many times am i gonna keep sayig the same things over and over.

If I understood correctly , you want ANET to nerf anything that your team can't handle? Oh , and god forbid the meta changes , the world will come to an end!

Irata · Jan 02, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

We made a lot of full or almost full runs in the last days (when we weren't rolled up in uw by a r3+ smite/tease/lich/hexway), this means that since these builds are available many people started (or restarted) to play HA, maybe pve players, with some experience in AB/HB/RA, attracted by the chance to farm some fame, as they do with other titles farming. This happened recently even in GVG, lots of pvers made some champ points with b/spike or hexway.
I simply think a-net loves this situation, cause those guys are the majority of the GW players, and if GW is still alive is for the pve, not for the pvp. GW is (or would like to be) a "massive" game. From at least 2 years is simply too hard for pvers to start to pvp without the help of overpowered skills or heroes, the experience gap with high rank players makes it simply too frustrating. Maybe the solution could have been something like a "second league" of HA, playable only by low rank people, but it's too late.
I think heroes should have never been introduced in pvp, but I fear that without heroes noone would have started to play pvp in the last year at least.
About the recent skill update, I think it goes in the right direction, beacause maybe for the first time a-net buffed some useless skills instead of nerfing the usefull ones, as predictable 1 or 2 of these skills are now so much better than the others that they are almost inescapable (palm strike and lingering), but oh well, let's wait for the next skill update.
Sry for the horrible english.

Arya Nibelrund · Jan 02, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

I'm not really against heroes in HA as now many more players are forming groups. A lot less skips happen lately which is for sure a positive thing. I'm afraid if they totally banned heroes from HA it would really be the last hit to an already dying game. On the other side, I'm sick of playing against the same boring shitbuild in every map, because let's face it, 9/10 all you play against is teaseway, with the remaining 1/10 being lichway/hexway. Running a balanced has never been so worthless now, when all you need to win is palmstrike+lingering+mark of insecurity (when will the average pvxwiki reader realize this is by far the most dangerous hex? im scared about this) and 20 random cover hexes. Rather than godly heroes I blame the last update though. You've always had the chance to take heroes in HA so where's the news here? Sure, they're very good at interrupting (1/4 spells should NEVER be interrupted though), and what really sets them apart is their multitasking and weapon skills (perfect warding+ench removal+interrupt; any real player can only do one of those things per time). But what is making everyone upset though is the fact that just now you can assemble a team that has a fair chance of beating everyone with a build that requires no coordination and skills at all. From this point of view, HA is extremely user-friendly. Get 5 more friends, copy&paste from pvxwiki and watch yourself having easy matches 1vs1 against any other build. I can live with getting interrupted on my channeling on recharge, or even on my RC, and having to remove blind from frontline because weapon of shadow goes up exactly on the spiked target. What really makes it unfunny is the fact that all we play against now are palmstrike sins, hundred blades wars and lingering necros.
Looking back, I think last skill update was the worst they ever made. Why bother playing anything else, when spamming hexes or pressing your 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 skill combo is enough to win matches... I'm afraid this is the direction the game will go thru the next balances; player base is diminuishing; there's a bigger gap between the starters and the veteran players so the only solution is making the game so simple that everyone can start and not get wiped in less than 2 minutes or even win against more experienced players. Removing heroes won't change the current meta, maybe changing current meta will make heroes unneeded?