Curse

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 29, 2008, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

What GvG were you obs'ing o.0

Magehunters is used a substantial amount more than Dev Hammer. You just can't beat the unblockable effect to KD the prot on spike.

I watch quite a few but one I remember was Straight Outta Kamadan [KMD] and Dangerous and Moving [DM]. On each guild, the 1st warrior was using Devastating.

I also remember [rawr]'s core warrior running Devastating Hammer if I'm not mistaken.

I also see Devas being used in GvGs with guilds that aren't "popular" meaning not a fan favorite.

scruffy · Dec 29, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

devestating-heavy blow is better for split builds because you can use heavy blow twice in a row pretty quickly not to mention the extra damage which is pretty nice in smaller fights

devestating-hammer bash is better for any other builds

magehunters smash is only good for spike builds, taking dev hammer just lets you go at a much faster clip which makes it better imo

Robbert Monga · Dec 29, 2008, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Pardon my nubness... but why is Heavy Blow awful?

Ec]-[oMaN · Dec 29, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Pardon my nubness... but why is Heavy Blow awful?

8v8 it's pretty terrible unless you are running a condi overload build. Too much um rc+sheath+draw.

Robbert Monga · Dec 29, 2008, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

8v8 it's pretty terrible unless you are running a condi overload build. Too much um rc+sheath+draw.

Meh... My imho is that if RC is a problem then just don't apply DW before target is below 50%, but then again what do i know....

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 29, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

but then again what do i know....

That's a very good question, it seems the answer is, not a lot.

Also, rawr doesn't run Dev Hammer, I don't recall if they ever did, but at least not since Magehunter got changed.

Basically, the only hammer warr worth observing was Nihil, and he doesn't really play anymore :/

TheHaxor · Dec 29, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

That's a very good question, it seems the answer is, not a lot.

Also, rawr doesn't run Dev Hammer, I don't recall if they ever did, but at least not since Magehunter got changed.

Basically, the only hammer warr worth observing was Nihil, and he doesn't really play anymore :/

pfft screw hammer warriors, hexes n derbitches or gtfo!

Whenitrainsitpours · Dec 29, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

[rawr] may not have ran Devastating Hammer. As I said, I wasn't sure.

However, the 1st warrior of [KMD] runs Devastating hammer because I usually watch [KMD] matches and sometimes just that particular warrior alone.

Rhamia Darigaz · Dec 29, 2008, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Meh... My imho is that if RC is a problem then just don't apply DW before target is below 50%, but then again what do i know....

it's not terrible because the deep wound might get removed... every decent warrior bar has deep wound. it's terrible because if the weakness gets removed heavy blow does nothing. also, you can't kd somebody with dev hammer and go kd somebody else with heavy blow.

MaaKotka · Dec 29, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Pardon my nubness... but why is Heavy Blow awful?

I think there are 2 reasons. You need to hit with heavy blow before weakness gets removed and you don't have option to kd some other target in case your weakened target gets some prot or puts some stance up. And for me these two reasons are big enough to not bring heavy blow with dev hammer unless i think i'm splitting much where need for those options aren't as high as at flagstand.

Between dev hammer and magehunter I think unblockable is well worth that 1 adrenaline. Good teams preprot well and with dev hammer I'm fighting odds way too often. Guaranteed kd is more valuable than 50% chance to kd and weaken.

Edwards · Dec 31, 2008, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbert Monga

Pardon my nubness... but why is Heavy Blow awful?

Because situations arise in the course of a game where you need a knockdown quickly, and might not be able to build enough adren to use your elite, or you will have already used your elite on a different target. Quite often a timely KD can swing the momentum of the battle, and having the unconditional Hammer Bash on your bar can make a huge difference at those times.

Robbert Monga · Dec 31, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

ya well, that doesn't make Heavy Blow awful, just more situational. It works pretty well in smaller format where hammer warrior can be primary damage dealer, as opposed to just KD (i.e. annoyance).

IMMORTAlMITCH · Dec 31, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

[rawr] may not have ran Devastating Hammer. As I said, I wasn't sure.

However, the 1st warrior of [KMD] runs Devastating hammer because I usually watch [KMD] matches and sometimes just that particular warrior alone.

Ego doesn't play hammer very often (aside from split builds), Kalzu plays it a bit more but prefers Axe, Nihil used to play hammer pretty much all the time, but he's playing competitive Fort Aspenwood now.

[KMD] is my guild, I know what we run

Whenitrainsitpours · Jan 02, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Ego doesn't play hammer very often (aside from split builds), Kalzu plays it a bit more but prefers Axe, Nihil used to play hammer pretty much all the time, but he's playing competitive Fort Aspenwood now.

[KMD] is my guild, I know what we run

I'm not saying Ego runs hammer only. I'm just saying from what I've seen of Ego running hammer, Ego uses Devastating over Magehunter's.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 02, 2009, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

I'm not saying Ego runs hammer only. I'm just saying from what I've seen of Ego running hammer, Ego uses Devastating over Magehunter's.

Well yeah, we generally dont run '3-2-1-rendspike-and-KD-prot-monk-with-Magehunter-Smash' type of builds, so Dev is better as it charges faster and is better on splits cause of the weakness.

Rhamia Darigaz · Jan 03, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well yeah, we generally dont run '3-2-1-rendspike-and-KD-prot-monk-with-Magehunter-Smash' type of builds

and for good reason. such a build could never win in a game like guild wars.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 03, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

and for good reason. such a build could never win in a game like guild wars.

Well, winning in a game like Guild Wars in this stage is overrated, I'd rather play something that's actually fun to play.

Jatt · Jan 03, 2009, 08:41 AM // 08:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well, winning in a game like Guild Wars in this stage is overrated, I'd rather play something that's actually fun to play.

because fun isn't defined by killing the other team and winning guild wars, but rather playing p-block mesmer and losing every monthly while claiming to be the best?

To get on topic, few things people haven't mentioned for Dev and magehunter:

Guild wars caculates adrenaline in a silly way.
1 strike of adrenaline is 25 points
every success-full attack gives you 25 points
For every 1% of health lost from your maximum, you gain 1 point of adrenaline (1/25th of a strike).

why is this important? because Dev hammer is 160 points or 6.4 strikes of adren.
magehunter is 200, or a full 8 strikes

It's not exactly a 1 strike difference, because if you take a bit of damage dev hammer essentially turns into a 6 adren KD.

As was previously mentioned Dev hammer excels in environments where there is little block (not 8v8 GvG). Dev hammer is good because the weakness owns on splits, and because it charges amazingly fast when compared to magehunter smash. it is infinately better than magehunter in split situations.

I run magehunter in [Rawr] because it is so strong in 8v8 situations. the guaranteed knock is amazing not only for distraction but if you want to call a rend spike you have the freedom to have it (the rend) land after magehunter - allowing the spike to be crisper and more difficult to stop. With dev in a similar situation (attempting to rend spike) you would have to have the rend land pre-dev, which makes the spike more difficult to time and also easier to save.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 03, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jatt

because fun isn't defined by killing the other team and winning guild wars, but rather playing p-block mesmer and losing every monthly while claiming to be the best?

It's defined by being able to score kills in ways that don't involve 3-2-1, Rend Enchantments, and running more blocks than Legoland.

At least that's my definition of it, you're welcome to disagree.

Jatt · Jan 03, 2009, 10:39 AM // 10:39

for some reason what i see in obs and what Mitch posts about in forums doesn't match up. I am suddenly confused.

If winning doesn't matter and you don't have fun playing spike builds, why are you running an omega-defense spike in a daily AT? unless you guys were planning on offensively splitting with that build but spontaneously decided to 8v8 spike once the gates opened. for some reason this doesn't seem likely.

(for people who don't know Armor Stacking = mitch)