Curse

xDusT II · Dec 23, 2008, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It doesn't mean 100% faster in a x2 fast way (ie: cutting the duration in half), it means it in accelerating time way (ie: it makes every 1s = 1.9s).

So now a 3 second duration Enchantment, gets cut down to 0.3s, since Guild Wars rounds down, that becomes 0, ie, not applied.

Does this mean Patient doesn't heal at all under MoI?

Dronte · Dec 23, 2008, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nude Nira

Is that a serious post??? Those builds fail...

Thats the point, no reason to play RA when u get each of those every 5 mins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Does this mean Patient doesn't heal at all under MoI?

Exactly. And thats the biggest fails in skill balance ever tbh.

Chocobo1 · Dec 23, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

At first glance, PnH is pretty OP. But you know what? Hexway is the most stupid OP crap and has had no real counter. PnH brings me a little hope. There is no skill in mass casting hexes all over a team and laughing as they try remove them one by one. Even then you could only remove 1-2 hexes at best and would usually only hit the cover hexes.

Go PnH. Yeah I've seen it in RA and it is so much less lame than stance monks. Seriously need to fix that stance monks <_<;.

MoI was not the way to do it, jesus another lame hex which totally takes the skill factor out of the game.

DarkNecrid · Dec 23, 2008, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by xDusT II

Does this mean Patient doesn't heal at all under MoI?

Yes, Patient Spirit is never applied, so it never heals while under MoI. Makes MoI that much more important to strip off since Patient is on every Monk ever.

ManMadeGod · Dec 23, 2008, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

It doesn't mean 100% faster in a x2 fast way (ie: cutting the duration in half), it means it in accelerating time way (ie: it makes every 1s = 1.9s).

So now a 3 second duration Enchantment, gets cut down to 0.3s, since Guild Wars rounds down, that becomes 0, ie, not applied.

I don't think it makes 3 second to 0.3.
Check wiki, 100% faster means half the duration. (as you mentioned, accelerating time way, ie: it makes every 1s = 2s, so halves the duration). And you said 3->0.3 which is different.

Because Air of Disenchantment makes enchantments expire 150...270...300% faster.
But the result is totally different.
If 90% faster makes 3->0.3, 100% makes everything to 0, what's the point of 150...270...300% faster?

Either MoI is bugged or the skill description is completely wrong.

pah01 · Dec 23, 2008, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Doesn't matter, Mark is broken in its current state bugged or not.

Joe

Jeydra · Dec 23, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I have nothing against Peace and Harmony, this is how I look at it.

Peace and Harmony is an extremely good hex remover. If you have it, pretty much no hexes will stick. It's a deadly anti-build ... but so is bringing Rust against any build that relies on Signets, Nature's Renewal against hexes, Rend Enchants against Dual Attunements, mass anti-melee hexspam against physical. It's pretty typical in RA no? If your opponents have an anti-build to you, then unless there is a gross skill mismatch you lose.

On the other hand, bringing Peace and Harmony has large drawbacks. Outside of the elite skills, Monks cannot heal very well. I wrote this elsewhere:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Thing about Monks is that, without the elite, you can't heal very well. I've tried to run Shield of Deflection, Aura of Faith, etc in RA and the results aren't good. The only reasonable heals available to you then are:

Heal Other (can't heal yourself, high energy cost)
Healing Breeze (regen-based healing, high energy cost)
Gift of Health (good heal but does not heal for much, and cannot self-target)
Patient Spirit (good heal but does not heal for much)
Mending Touch (good heal but you can't use it on allies easily, nor can you use it without conditions)
Dismiss Condition (good heal but does not heal for much)

Not to mention all these other heals pale in efficiency compared to WoH / ZB.

A WoH / ZB Monk can keep his team up a lot more effectively against heavier pressure than can one using Peace and Harmony. Peace and Harmony might stop conditions and hexes, but it does not heal, and against heavy damage like Wounding Strike spam, unblockable Sin chains, and so on - well spread out among multiple party members, not just targetting the Monk - then a Monk using Peace and Harmony will fail pretty badly. I experienced this firsthand just yesterday, my team had a Monk with Life Sheath against three physicals + Monk. Though I was playing a defensive midliner and shut down two of their physicals, their pressure eventually won through because my team's Monk just does not have the ability to push red bars up. If he had WoH instead of Life Sheath, we would have won.

So that's how I look at it. If you have a build that includes Migraine, Frustration and 4x interrupts, you'll destroy casters alright and so appear overpowered, but against a physical-heavy team you will be useless and so be underpowered. Peace and Harmony compared to other hex removers is extremely strong, but it occupies a crucial elite slot and weakens the Monk to all other kinds of damage. If you're playing a hex overload character and run into Peace and Harmony, that's just your luck ... instead of dwelling upon the loss though, imagine what would happen if that team runs into one that has no hexes.

But to be honest I've not played much RA since the update, so my opinion may not be the most fair.

MagmaRed · Dec 23, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Peace and Harmony is very strong, but I don't see it as overpowered yet. As with most hex removal (and condition removal) skills, it only targets 1 person at a time. When you have a team of 4 in RA dealing with hexes and conditions both, you can only remove those hexes/conditions on one person every 7 seconds. And as noted, this eats up the elite slot, making stong heals harder to find. Faintheartedness will annoy your physicals, as well skills like VoR, Empathy, and Insidious. Add in Blind, Weakness, Cripple, and what do you do? You want to remove those things from your physicals to allow them to deal damage. Now think about your casters dealing with Backfire, Migraine, Frustration, Daze, etc. and you have at least one more person to remove conditions/hexes from. If you can remove them all at once, that is fantastic, especially since most of those have fairly long recharge times. But when you can only remove them every 7 seconds, and face damage as well that you need to heal, it becomes difficult to do against all teams.

That doesn't even consider your own hexes, conditions, and damage to deal with.

ManMadeGod · Dec 23, 2008, 02:09 PM // 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanta_nomad

I'm not as experienced as most of the posters on this thread. However, from what I gather with my limited experience:

1. In RA PnH monks are really not that almighty. Most melee heavy teams can get the better of them. IMHO the other posters and even the OP is downplaying the possibility that the reason even melee heavy teams are getting owned by the OP's team is simply because the OP is in fact a skilled player; not simply because he is using an overpowered skill. Having said that:

2. I DO believe PnH needs a bit of nerfing ONLY because it makes other hex removing monk elites almost useless; not because it makes mesmers and Necros weep.

These make sense.

But still, the energy cost and the cast time is the issue of Pn'H.

Crispie · Dec 23, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marxon Aurion

Peace And Harmony may look a little overpowered, but these hexes are even more. Ever played monk vs a VoR/Backfire mes? Since you are talking about Backfire I assume you play one, and that makes your argument auto-invalid.

I monk all the time in RA, and always use enchants with contemplation of purity. Hexes rarely (and I mean rarely) stop me. Is Peace and Harmony overpowered? Well, I don't know, because I still don't use it and routinely get 10-20 wins in a row.

Cammy · Dec 23, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

If someone has a PnH build that can redbar itself and 3 others vs. crit scythes, power attack spam, lightning orbs, turret ranger spam, primal rage train, and poison, let me know.

mikeydj99 · Dec 23, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Actually i have to say. Nothing in guild wars is OP right now. Think about It. Hexes are Op. Okay. PnH. Deal. not Overpowered. If your team is bad enough to not run enough hex removal you lose. Thats the point of the game. Or if you run a shit of physical terririze them before they get the hexes you off its win. And i heard PD interupts important hexes. in this arguement. ra fails. WHo cares. And this skill didnt make a dent in ha really. Good players always find ways around everythings. Its called the game. there is an OP skill in every game. in order to get you guys to stop complaining. A net would have the make Guild wars make sins do 10000x dmg and monk heal for 10. OMG I CANT KILL A GOOD MONK. LETS GO RAGE ON GURU ABOUT RA..

/close this please here comes the flame.

thor hammerbane · Dec 23, 2008, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Stance monks aren't overpowered either, it really just shows the lack of skill in the backline imo. Most stance monks who bring 2-3 self survival skills don't even come close to keeping their team alive. I usually laugh when i see a monk spamming stances, because he's always the last one alive. Did all you glad 10 pros forget that you can attack other people, not just their monk? If you're running a decent dmg build, you can easily kill the rest of the team before the monk.

Skyy High · Dec 23, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor Hammerbane

Stance monks aren't overpowered either, it really just shows the lack of skill in the backline imo. Most stance monks who bring 2-3 self survival skills don't even come close to keeping their team alive. I usually laugh when i see a monk spamming stances, because he's always the last one alive. Did all you glad 10 pros forget that you can attack other people, not just their monk? If you're running a decent dmg build, you can easily kill the rest of the team before the monk.

The issue is that most RA players have just barely come to terms with the strategy briefly summed up by "HIT THE MONK HIT THE MONK HIT THE MONK MONK AHDADF GOGOGO MONK YOU NOOBS WTF HIT THE MONK *PING PING PING PING PING PING* WTF NOOOOOOOOOBS!!!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!1! /ragequit"

Ahem.

PnH makes other elite hex removal look silly when you're just looking at removing the hexes, but it doesn't replace those skill completely. Divert Hexes still gives a nice heal when you hit a hex stack, and is therefore more energy-efficient than PnH. Expel Hexes is a nice skill for running on a secondary (I bring it on a P/Me when I vanquish hex-heavy areas). Withdraw Hexes....okay, Withdraw just blows.

kostolomac · Dec 23, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I would increase the energy cost or recharge , so that it isn't spammed without thinking when to use it.

makosi · Dec 23, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

PnH = no self heals other than Patient Spirit.

It cleans folk up, but warriors and assassins will still eat you alive.

Omega Precept · Dec 24, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Target swapping.
Shattering Assault Sin.
Not using your attacks on someone with Shield Bash unless you're confident that s/he's going to miss SBashing an attack.

Those Monks probably lack healing, too. And besides, if this gets nerfed the majority of hexes should get nerfed aswell anyway - and only some Hexway fanboy would say no to that.

~Word

I have no prob with peace and harmony.

Omg its Sasha · Dec 24, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

GUYS!

HEY.

HEY.

[rawr] won the monthly, the game is totally balanced. Why are we even bothering talking about this?

moriz · Dec 24, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

my take on peace and harmony:

mass hexes has always been poorly handled throughout GW's history. each time hexes appeared, it was always because of poor removal choices available.... or more specifically, there's no reliable way in removing a ton of them at the same time.

PnH is now the only definitive mass hex remover, and acts as a viable deterrent for hex metas from forming. it is a necessary evil to counter an even greater evil.

so in closing, PnH is a needed skill purely to compensate for a weakness in GW's mechanics.

What Now · Dec 24, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Agree it was needed to balance it out. So many powerful hexes and stacks were impossible to remove, every fight multiple hexes with just 1 veil to keep you clean from several fatal hexes THEN the rest of the team?

Reasons its not OP.

Its for monks only, cant be abused by any other class.

Its an elite. Yes, now let me explain. What have all monk elites in arenas done so far? Barpush, ZB, WoH, you got it. Without that efficient barpush you are forced to use subpar and otherwise risky heals like patient. This greatly lowers its effectiveness.
While a WoH can WoH up any damage pressure and seem OPed in that sense if you simply frenzy this guy with blunt damage you will probably outdo his only minimal heal. Prots can be easily dealt with.

I love this skill, recharge also makes up for it. Unlike RC you cant spam left spam right vs pressure you have to wisely chose what to remove in 8v8 and such. 7 second charge at least on a monk is pretty much pushing it.

What happened to all the Q.Q wail of doom this and Visions that threats? Oh wait their here...basically daze can still counter it too which tons of people can easily also run. So.

OPed? In the same situation specific case WoH is but against condi-pressure and blunt damage you WILL miss RC and you WILL miss WoH.

So now lets talk about Palm Strike? :3