Curse

Kenzo Skunk · Jan 21, 2009, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Just started monking a bit in RA, so was wondering which of these two is better? Prot Spirit or Spirit Bond?

Current build:

WoH
Patient Spirit
Dismiss Condition
Cure Hex
Guardian
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Prot Spirit
Vengeance

Any constructive opinion is appreciated.

Xanthar · Jan 21, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

IMHO, take neither. They are both excellent for preprotting against spike damage - Something that only rarely occur in RA.

Also, there is a real reason why so many people monking in RA go with W as secondary and block stances. If you get your guardian d-shotted or just generally interrupted, you are in a bad way since you can't count on any kind of support or linebacking from your team. At least consider it.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jan 21, 2009, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthar

preprotting against spike damage

Hahahhahahahhahaa

Wish Swiftdeath · Jan 21, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Yeah, don't bother, there's so much enchantment hate already its just a waste of ten energy.

WoH
Patient Spirit
Dismiss Condition
Cure Hex
Guardian
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Prot Spirit
Vengeance

As for your build i'd swap cure hex for veil, glyph of lesser energy and prot spirit with shield bash and/or a stances, for the last slot you can run any number of things like mtouch (swap dismiss for draw/mend condition) or spotless mind (to clean your frontliners). Of course you could always run a MO/A with Dark Escape and Return which i really love

.

Btw, the reason why Mitch is laughing is because spike targets always get rended

.

jiggles · Jan 21, 2009, 01:20 PM // 13:20

drop vengeance and gole, take stances, or return and dark escape, or something to help you out vs hammer warriors, or BA turrets, or shit that you cantget guardian up around. Ressurection skills should be used on non healing characters only. While a monk is ressing theyre not healing. Also take another hex removal. If you are intent on using sb or ps, take sb. Getting healed while an air ele dances around you with ride the lightning is a hell of a lot better than having to heal up after said air ele does his dance.

turbo234 · Jan 21, 2009, 01:21 PM // 13:21

vengeance or any type of res on a monk is bad, because if you are spending time trying to res allies the enemies will just take that chance to kill a different person, or even kill you. and what xanthar said its better to take a more defensive secondary in the arenas.
as for the main question in the arenas i wouldnt take either. a stance will do well enough to take pressure off.

Zamochit · Jan 21, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

You have only one 10 energy cost skill, which makes [skill]glyph of lesser energy[/skill] a bit redundant as you wont be getting the most out of it.

I would also suggest dropping [skill]protective spirit[/skill] altogether. Even in random arena's the majority of people are educated enough to be running with 600 plus hitpoints nowadays which means that [skill]spirit bond[/skill] will be more valuable in almost every circumstance in RA, so if you feel the need to bring one of the two I would suggest [skill]spirit bond[/skill], however enchant removal is rampant in Random arena so its probably just going to get stripped.

Your current build has no form of instant self defence. [skill]shield bash[/skill] [skill]disciplined stance[/skill] [skill]Dark escape[/skill] [skill]return[/skill] are all viable options, considering the enchant hate. [skill]shield bash[/skill] or [skill]return[/skill] are probably the safest options at the moment as they are uneffected by [skill]mark of insecurity[/skill]

Xanthar · Jan 21, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Hahahhahahahhahaa

Well, it used to be - Before enchantment removal made all kind of prot useless.

Kenzo Skunk · Jan 21, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Thanks for such a rapid and constructive responses guys. I used to go with shield bash, but whenever i equip it, noone rushes to slice me down. On the other hand, when i don`t, everyone just swarms on me. Never considered sin "get me out of the jam" skills, so i`ll try them out. And yeah, monk rezing will often lead to more deaths... Even if the rezed guy is 25% boosted, i`m out of 10 energy, and someone else is dead in the meantime.

Rothan Celt · Jan 21, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

RA i never take them. Its just lots of dmg being thrown out from single players.

out of the 2 i would take spirit bond for RA but normaly i would take nethier.

i would suggest going Mo/W or /a its important to have some form of melee defense in RA. Hell even bons defense works with all the silly palm sins atm.

Shooshu · Jan 21, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

WoH
Patient Spirit
Dismiss Condition
Sig of rejuvenation
Guardian
spotless mind
holy veil
return

This is a good build that you can easily keep allies alive while maintaining normal energy levels.

Jeydra · Jan 21, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Prot Spirit vs. Spirit Bond in RA ... somewhat a personal choice, but some things to consider:

1. Protective Spirit lasts a lot longer. This means you can use it to cover Holy Veil if you have to - a significant difference, since the people with the nastiest hexes (Diversion, Shame, Mark of Subversion, etc) all tend to have at least one anti-enchant. Of course you can choose not to carry Holy Veil and rely on Cure Hex as you do, up to you.
2. Spirit Bond is significantly stronger against damage that just exceeds 60 damage. This can come from a lot of sources, eg. Immolate, a Hammer critical, etc. Against this Protective Spirit does quite little. On the other hand, because Spirit Bond lasts so much shorter, there's little to stop an Elementalist from switching targets, while you can substitute Guardian against a Hammer Warrior.
3. Spirit Bond is significantly stronger against large chunks of damage. Example: an Assassin does Black Mantis Thrust -> Jungle Strike -> Trampling Ox -> Falling Spider -> Blades of Steel on you. Compare the damage you take if you have Spirit Bond on you vs. if you have Protective Spirit on you. Spirit Bond will leave you with higher health.

Against all this you can choose to take neither and use the slot for something else. That works sometimes and fails sometimes - as mentioned above, if an Elementalist with 18 Air and Arcane Echo'ed Ride The Lightning decides to kill you, and you have neither Spirit Bond nor Protective Spirit, you are in trouble. On the other hand, against another team with hex pressure from Necros and Mesmers, Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit are completely useless, while the extra Signet of Rejuv / Patient Spirit / Reversal of Fortune / whatever you used for that last slot could well be decisive.

It comes down personal preference. Me, I find Holy Veil is the only thing standing between me and nasty Mesmers, and so I use Protective Spirit as the cover, preferring to have Protective Spirit just in case. The bar I use has something against everything, but is not particularly outstanding against a single type of damage. Personal preference, it's your choice.

Sakura Az · Jan 22, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

my personal preferance tween PS of SB in pvp is to take SB, i prefer to have something that will keep me alive while a hammer wails away while i sit on the ground >.<

Marxon Aurion · Jan 22, 2009, 08:16 AM // 08:16

It is wrong to say Spiritbond is useless against hexways, because it actually triggers on Backfire, Visions Of Regret and Soul Bind.

Reverend Dr · Jan 22, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Everyone runs a total health of around 600. This is important to remember.

For any damage less than or equal to 60 neither protective spirit nor spirit bond will prevent any damage.

For any damage greater than 60, spirit bond mitigates a flat 80 damage(lets assume a 10 in prot), while prot spirit mitigates the damage total minus 60.

Thus for damage from 61-140 spirit bond mitigates more damage. After 140 damage prot spirit mitigates more, however numbers that high are just rarely seen in pvp.

Only other point that could be brought up is the duration, but in the current enchant strip heavy meta, durations have little weight.

Ex Death · Jan 24, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Since the OP was reffering to RA, both skills are pretty terrible in this format. This is solely due to the fact that you will never be sure of damage over 60 occuring so its simply not worth the skill slot and energy investment. Shielding hands/Shield of absorption are infintely better in RA because they will always negate damage, not to mention guardian is all that is required for protting vs physical (considering that like 75% of damage in RA is physical damage).

Byron · Jan 26, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

How can you guys monk without hard prots?

afya · Jan 27, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Everyone runs a total health of around 600. This is important to remember.

For any damage less than or equal to 60 neither protective spirit nor spirit bond will prevent any damage.

For any damage greater than 60, spirit bond mitigates a flat 80 damage(lets assume a 10 in prot), while prot spirit mitigates the damage total minus 60.

Thus for damage from 61-140 spirit bond mitigates more damage. After 140 damage prot spirit mitigates more, however numbers that high are just rarely seen in pvp.

Only other point that could be brought up is the duration, but in the current enchant strip heavy meta, durations have little weight.

is it just me seeing that most of the RA-ers run 5xx or even 4xx hp

turbo234 · Jan 28, 2009, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

is it just me seeing that most of the RA-ers run 5xx or even 4xx hp

no its not just you. it annoys me too. its hella fun going against them though. sins with 400 hp are the greatest thing in the world to dice up with a scythe that can take them out in a couple hits.

bungusmaximus · Jan 28, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

How can you guys monk without hard prots?

I personally can't, instead of throwing up spirit bond it's more productive to lineback the damage dealer with a big hammer. Arena monk bars are st00pid lol, all sophisticated prots don't really work due to enchant strips, so all there's left is healing and stances.