Curse

Xeng Suey · Jan 06, 2009, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Hi everyone!

I'v been obsing lately many good guilds playing balanced and loosing to smiteway. I'v been trying to observe all the games i can, in search of some answers towards the "How to defeat smiteway"/"Weakness of smiteway" topics, but its kinda impossible to learn anything from the games i have been watching since 90%-95% of the guilds play 5 monks builds, or smiteway, or bspike, or k-spike/Mirror-of-Ice-spike,.... In other words i havent catched a balanced playing against smiteway/5-monk-builds and win. Thats why i came to guildwars foruns searching for some help.
Being so, i would like to do some questions to any experts in GvG out there so i can do the best i can for my guild and, hopefully learn some more about GW:

1. Every game i'v watched envolving a banlanced and a smiteway/5-monk-builds, the fights where made 8vs8 and the smiteways seemed to clean every enemy they faced so easily...it seem they where cutting butter. So, is it better to fight men vs men or try to split when facing a smiteway? To be quite honest my guild (including my self) faced 3 smiteways and, in 2 of them, we tryed to split and kill some npcs and the tactics seemed to work cause we cleared almost all theyr base till there was some point the smiteway caught us on 8vs8 and cleared all of us (i can tell prots where doing nothing cause PoD/rend and rip ench where present and i had to infuse to try to same team mates).

2. About the weakness of the smiteway/5 monks build... what are their weakeness (excluding the 60 armor on everyone of them excluding the 3 frontliners they have...usually sin+2warriors or 3 sins) ?

well....many questions on my head, just hope someone can help.
Btw, If people dont want/ dont know to answer pls dont make coments or flames. kk? Tkx

Big tankx for reading and i apreatiate any answers u could give me or constructive coments.

gl hf

~ Deus Ex ~

jiggles · Jan 06, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Basicly just start the match by asking your monks if theyre comfortable monking against it. If they say yes then go and rape them, if they say no send all damage on a split and all heal to your knights. Most smiteway matches are just lord rushes, because of their high damage output they can usually get there quicker, but if your monks are smart it can be beaten.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jan 06, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Tease or Cry of Frustration would be my guess. Arcane Conundrum and Lingering Curse are nice, too - one will make casting time of RoJ 4 seconds, the other will reduce healing they get. But then again, LC is against all monks.

What?.....

I've played vs it a few times in GvG running balanced. Few times with the old balanced meta, Shock axe, Hammer War, Ranger, PD mes, FC snare, 2 monks, rit runner. We just split against it, had our FC snare run the flag when needed, the hexes off him just seem to fuel the pressure due to all the hex removal they have. We split off our shock axe, rit and ranger and kept everyone else behind.

Generally it's only a lot of bad guilds running it who don't know what to split and so end up running around like headless chickens when they see their base getting wiped and a lot of them don't bother with the flag a lot so you can boost quite a few times.

Stall their offense by turtling in npcs and play defensively, having your hammer war lineback and your mesmer concentrate on shutting down the smite monks rather than the full heal monks. Then you just gotta hope you can kill their lord before they wipe your defense.

We also recently played it with the new FC curse mesmer and since it was on burning isle didn't have the spit option open very early in the game. When we tried to 8v8 I think we wiped and just resigned out. However with the build we play has a tremendous amount of hex pressure, we play an FC curser along with a VoR mes, so I think you if you can stick the pressure for a while it is possible to wipe them 8v8.

It isn't really very popular at the moment, I mean there's a reasonable amount of guilds playing it but you're not gonna be consistently facing it I don't think so I wouldn't really worry about it a lot. This may change though.

DarkNecrid · Jan 06, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Split them smartly/lord rush, they only can really own you hard in 8v8 situations.

dies like fish · Jan 06, 2009, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Have your Monks and flagger turtle up while your offense runs into their base and kills their Knights.
At about 1:30 have whatever your snares are on their Monks and collapse to your base and kill their offense after 2:00.
Kill their Monks.
Win the game.

I Angra I · Jan 06, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

One big thing to keep in mind with smiteway is that it's near impossible to beat them by pressuring them out.

You either have to spike to score kills and get DP on them, or heavily split them.

Basically whenever we come up against it, our strategy goes like this: If we have a lingering curse/fc water midline, have them run flags, as their hexes will only pressure you out from smite hex. This lets the rit stay at stand and keep warding on key characters as well as being able to heal.

Next try and start spiking out characters and getting a lot of DP on targets so you can eventually have them run out of res sigs and finally wipe them.

You have to assess after a certain point if you are getting kills fast enough or not. If you aren't getting kills fast enough and your monks are going to be pressured out before you can keep people on their team dead, you need to split a lot of offense before you start taking a lot of deaths. Split both wars, ranger, whatever hex midline you had running flags. Generally keep the rit back with the monks. Then it just comes down to lord racing, your monks staying alive for as long as possible and your heavy split trying to kill their base defense after time to kill their lord.

If it turns out that you can't kill what they sent back to defend for some reason, you want to try and collapse on what is in your base then before their monks in their base can come back to save it, before your monks in your base wipe to what is in there.

Massive Impulsa · Jan 06, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Had the same discussion on rawr forum link;

http://www.rebelrising.net/forums/vi...hilit=Smiteway

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atleast what we usually do or try atleast when we face it. Lets take the battle we had yeasterday^^

We are running basic Rawr Way consisting of:

Primal Rage
Magehunters
FC Snare
Caretakers
WoH Stance
RC Stance
MoI Runner

The first thing we did was to try and beat them 8v8. Since hexes usually just gives us the pressure we let the Snare Mesmer run the flag.

Then we tried to keep spikking them down.. Usually we kept an WoW on the WoH or RC since they had an Palm Strike sin camping one of the monks.

First MoI is actually quite nice in spikkes vs Smiteways. 1;

It makes all the Reversal of Damage/Fortune etc run out pretty fast

All the smiter hero's starts using Smitehex (Which mean they cant protect the target)
Magehunters KD's Infuser
Since the target should have MoI and a rend on a target any preprots doesnt mather.
Then we just keep spikking whenever one of the warriors get adrenalline.

When facing smiteway its good to get a Dp' hole on one of the heroes, since their pretty easy to spikke out (No Set swapping, generally bad kiting, positioning)

Then just try and get the person down as many times you can to Dp out.

Something nice:

Only keep crucial Conditions / hexes upp
Spikke 24/7
Keeping an Protective Spirit on the Primal Rage due to Smite condtion on the DW,Hexes and RoD.
Let the ranger strictly interrupting crucial skills such as MoI,RoJ, Dshot on Palm Strike etc.

However if you loose 8v8 as we started whit go for a gank, almost full man gank:P Exept some dammage.

First of all assure your gonna get the flag, usually around this "full man split" your getting boosts since they have to go back whit almost the team. Getting 15dp on some players and just getting a 10% Boost doesnt hurt that much:P

Now the Team that stays back try and have the Snarer at the stand now since he can pretty much snare alot now. This usually RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs upp many Smite Teams since when they see an 4-5split they usually send EVERYONE back. Now Snare whatever you can and try to kill whatever is left. Get some nice Dp Holes + Flag Boost. Probably the split team is gonna die - altough dont get timed! Try and get down the Knights + the blocking archers, getting Bodyguard can be quite nice aswell.

Now if all this goes after the plan the split will die. You will gain a Boost AND Probably kill 2-3people so you have some decent Dp'holes.

Try and get 8v8 again and DONT Let them get flag Boost!

Now spikking down the heroes/players whit Dp shouldnt be as hard as it was in the start...

Also if your still stalled rushing for lord shouldnt be so hard since atleast some of the Npc's is down so getting the Tie Breaker dmg wont be as hard

So this was atleast my little Guide / My last game

Summary^^

8v8, Split, Snare and Kill some get Dp holes, 8v8 try spikke the dp'ed targets, dp'ed out heroz/Players, push base wins!;D

Altough remember this is best by using builds such as Rawrway which relays on Spikkes and call keep it upp 8v8 vs SmiteWays atleast at a decent amount of time^^!

Suppose many knows this but get the fock out of chokepoints!!!

Atleast what i think about...

Alot of writing mistakes and dont flame me if it doesnt make sense:P

Krill · Jan 06, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

At the stand defiantly have water / curses flag if you have them as smite hex will only rape your team off the bat, as others have said. If you have a ranger with poison that will also be practically useless at the stand, but useful for solo ganking some npc's for the lord race or harassing their flagger. Only use necessary hexes and conditions, i.e. MoI if you have it and a clean deep wound to spike down. The hero monks are good spike targets and their stand monk especially if you have MoI or are running a spike build anyway.

I've also played smiteway quite a few times when I'm bored with 5 and to see what it's weaknesses are after being raped by Kentosaurus multiple times. The hero /N variant runs out out of energy very quickly if you don't manually cast RoJ and rip enchant only when they are needed and the /A MoI variant is only useful if you manually cast MoI and cover with enduring toxin to spike. Basically a lot of these teams that leave their heroes in cruise control mode are not getting the full use out of them and their energy will quickly depleted. They also usually only have a hammer war with death pact for a hard rez so if you can burn up their sigs and control the stand that puts you at a huge advantage. Lastly, the only viable split with this build rly is the frontliner with the smite heroes which doesn't last if they are split against your main team.

If 8 humans are playing smiteway the split and stall possibilities become much greater and it can be incredibly difficult to beat since they have so much firepower to kill npc's and sweep through the lord room. To beat that I think you need a very good clean spike or supreme confidence in your splitting.

kosh · Jan 06, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

[sup] just wiped [braq] on forzen, balance still lives!

edit: braq run shitway with 2 sins.war and 4 monks 1 goi ele.

sup had normal balance with 2 rangers.

Xeng Suey · Jan 07, 2009, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Tankx for answering so strongly guys <3
Need to read all that and digest.

Massive Impulsa, i'm sorry to make a new post here about the discussion, but in QQ forums i usually see many flames and uselss crap of the kind, and i didnt even try to search there for that motive. Anyway, ty for ur answer and nice explanation.

Ty all.

~ Deus Ex ~

xDusT II · Jan 07, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

If you split it heavily most smiteway will be forced to send back both human monks while the offence relies on the smite heroes to survive. If you've still got offence at your own lord room you can out damage the smite heroes healing and force their offence to collapse/wipe. Also most smite teams don't run a dedicated flagger so if you can keep them split with their monks defending you can try to force boosts or lower the pressure on your side by getting their primal rage warrior to run flags.

From personally experience in ReX, the safest bet to beat smiteway is to run them around as much as possible. Collapse on their offence after time and try to score kills on the heroes who will often be terrible at movement and get stuck in shitty positions.

thor hammerbane · Jan 07, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

You can still beat it with balanced, My guild has been facing 150-500 smiteway for a week, and we rarely have problems fighting them 8v8

Xeng Suey · Jan 07, 2009, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by thor hammerbane

You can still beat it with balanced, My guild has been facing 150-500 smiteway for a week, and we rarely have problems fighting them 8v8

You missed the whole point of this thread.... I dont wanna know if its possible to beat smiteway (ofc its possible duuuuuuhhhhhhhhh!). Only thing i asked is: was strategy/tactics your team used against it?

ChopChop · Jan 07, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeng Suey

You missed the whole point of this thread.... I dont wanna know if its possible to beat smiteway (ofc its possible duuuuuuhhhhhhhhh!). Only thing i asked is: was strategy/tactics your team used against it?

To answer shortly, the trick is to not die.

Now by this I mean you got 2 basic options, 1 is to try and put no conditions and hexes on them and hinder their damage as much as possible, probably even split something in their base or flag run with any character that have only hexes and condies on their bar.

The other is to try and overload them with everything, throw all hexes and condies on them and try to land kills before they do, depending on your build either approach can work.

If they use a sin with PS, then hum sig works great, if they have mark then expel or other midline removal works great, generally not flag running with the ritualist is advised (not the same as not flag running, but flag run with someone else).

Xeng Suey · Jan 07, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopChop

To answer shortly, the trick is to not die.

Now by this I mean you got 2 basic options, 1 is to try and put no conditions and hexes on them and hinder their damage as much as possible, probably even split something in their base or flag run with any character that have only hexes and condies on their bar.

The other is to try and overload them with everything, throw all hexes and condies on them and try to land kills before they do, depending on your build either approach can work.

If they use a sin with PS, then hum sig works great, if they have mark then expel or other midline removal works great, generally not flag running with the ritualist is advised (not the same as not flag running, but flag run with someone else).

I just saw [Vibe] in obs fighting a Smiteway and they choose to not put hexes or condies on the smiteway players. Other thing they did was full gank at begining of the match. They won!
Anyway, I just want to say that i have seen builds with big hexoverload (like Me/N 1234567 spam lingering and hum sig on recharge) and they have dyed like alot....

Ty for your contribution chop.

MaaKotka · Jan 07, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Smiteway has 2 weaknesses. 1 it isn't good build to split with and despite of 4 monks it actually has quite bad defence in 8vs8 because lack of midline utility. So if your team has a very strong offence and still nice defence you have very good chance to win smiteway in 8vs8, but you have to kill them before you die because you will die very quicky thanks to smiteways huge pressure. Also remember that a lot of their damage/disruption comes from palm strike sins so shut them down or just kill them since they have only 70 armor.

If you aren't comfortable to fight smiteway 8vs8 or you wipe, just split smartly and you will win them quite easily. There is some split setups that smiteway can do quite nicely, but most smiteways don't even know what the word split means. We play smiteway and when we face another, we just split right away since it is much easier win that way because they usually don't know what they should do then.

I have to say that it is unbelievable how badly most teams below rank 300 split. That is the biggest reason to why smiteway guilds have gotten so high ranks with so bad play.

Random H · Jan 07, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

If you play [Shhh] just lineback polly. It worked for us.
Smiteway needs to be nerfed

lutz · Jan 08, 2009, 03:47 AM // 03:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaaKotka

Smiteway has 2 weaknesses. 1 it isn't good build to split with and despite of 4 monks it actually has quite bad defence in 8vs8 because lack of midline utility. So if your team has a very strong offence and still nice defence you have very good chance to win smiteway in 8vs8, but you have to kill them before you die because you will die very quicky thanks to smiteways huge pressure. Also remember that a lot of their damage/disruption comes from palm strike sins so shut them down or just kill them since they have only 70 armor.

If you aren't comfortable to fight smiteway 8vs8 or you wipe, just split smartly and you will win them quite easily. There is some split setups that smiteway can do quite nicely, but most smiteways don't even know what the word split means. We play smiteway and when we face another, we just split right away since it is much easier win that way because they usually don't know what they should do then.

I have to say that it is unbelievable how badly most teams below rank 300 split. That is the biggest reason to why smiteway guilds have gotten so high ranks with so bad play.

The only other problem is, is that your midline water mesmer is essentially useless because it does more damage to you than it helps your team, and they get to output so much damage that by the time they're low, you're dead.

It's also very easy for the other team to kill your split, unless you send healing on the split, in which case your stand team probably wiped 2 minutes ago.

lustnlood · Jan 08, 2009, 08:32 AM // 08:32

we usually run a team inspired by [VIBE] and we face smiteway 7/10 times. what we usually do is pick the imperial isle as a guild hall and hope we do not fght on their map which is prolly burning isle.

after that we send out the VoR and the PS to go take out their defense but leaving the guild lord alive .

the rest of the team stay back at our base pushing back sowly into the npcs with the hope of outnumbering them with our npcs. if they are stupid they will send someone back for the sin and VoR. whenever this happens, it is basically GG for us.

if they dont we try to hold them off while the VoR the PS and the split off rit take out bodyguard ad GL, provoking them to pull back. they fall for it, take the fight to their side and the main team pressures out the PS and the monks and the PS and Vor do their job on the GL.

the best tactic i could come up with.

however if you have rly good monks you could just fight it out at a given point, possibly on your side and DP out targets.

MaaKotka · Jan 08, 2009, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

The only other problem is, is that your midline water mesmer is essentially useless because it does more damage to you than it helps your team, and they get to output so much damage that by the time they're low, you're dead.

If your water mesmer don't have any useful skills then run flag with him/her or split your mesmer to somewhere where isn't smiters. If you have good players you can win them 8vs8 with smart play, but isn't easy. If they still outpressure you then split.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

It's also very easy for the other team to kill your split, unless you send healing on the split, in which case your stand team probably wiped 2 minutes ago.

If it is easy for them to kill your split team then you really don't need other monk with your main team. Smiteway can't have high damage in 2 places at same time. Also their offencive split relies usually only on 2-3 smitemonks to stay alive so they die easily.

You just need to play a bit differently than against rawrway or some other "balanced" to win. Positioning and shutting key players is the key to win. But that goes against every team. You just need different strategies against different teams.