Curse

hurric · Jan 23, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

if there's no update after the monthly, then it's the last nail in the coffin. RIP

Reverend Dr · Jan 25, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Next month's update: Fixed a bug in Heroes' Ascent that mistakenly awarded fame points instead of commander points.

Trylo · Jan 26, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

As of now Ha is staler than the bread from the last supper.

do i get a prize for filling in the blank?

Edwards · Jan 27, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Let me just say that playing against PS sins every match is least amount of fun I have ever had in this game. Let me go over the metas that were more fun to play.

1) Smiter's Boon
2) 1 player + 3 hero + 2 henchman 6v6
3) Every Ranger Spike (including dual orders)
4) Every Rit Spike Incarnation
5) Every Blood Spike Incarnation
6) Ele Ball
7) Searing Flames
8) Original NF dual Incoming holding builds
9) Original Shadow Prison
10) NF Beta Derv
11) IWAY (every incarnation including when it had 150% attack speed)
12) Ether Renewal Smite
13) Oath Shot + Old school spirit spam

You forgot every form of thumperway/sway.

Stupid Shizno · Jan 27, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

still dead

12chars

sororitygirl · Feb 04, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Why can't people resist QQ'ing.

If you hate the meta, beat the meta.

Whining about Izzy won't change him.

Whining for skill updates won't make them happen.

Suck it up and play with some balls or uninstall.

shoogi · Feb 04, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sororitygirl

Why can't people resist QQ'ing.

If you hate the meta, beat the meta.

Whining about Izzy won't change him.

Whining for skill updates won't make them happen.

Suck it up and play with some balls or uninstall.

The difference between the current tease-meta to previous metas from the past, is that in all cases, or at least most of them (lets leave out incredibly overpowered stuff like the first spirit spam or paragons in 6v6), you had the build wars option. If you couldn't beat, lets say, the first (and the strongest) version of rspike, you could always bring a shields up chain, and you are guaranteed victory. Against blood spike, ritspike or any other caster spike you always had the option of 3 mesmers that wouldn't let them spike anything.
Against teaseway, as was discussed in other threads here, there is NO buildwars possibility. Yes, you can play in a way that benefits the weak points of heroes, such as how easy it is to divert them, but I'm talking about plain and simple build counters, which every r3 can do. There are no effective build counters to the norgu bar. I'm not saying that build wars is a must to beat teaseway, but in your post you basically said "learn to build wars", or this is at least how I understood it.
This difference is what makes the current meta the worst meta ever (again, excluding drastically OP stuff, teaseway isn't drastically OP stuff), in my opinion.

You may call this QQ, and say that if it's so bad then why do I still play HA, and I answer- I don't. Even through the nightmares of iway and sway I never gave up HA, but now, I can't stand it, so I don't play HA. That saddens me because I still like the format (although the format could use a few obvious improvements) and I want to tombs. But it's not fun atm.

Dmitri3 · Feb 04, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I remember times when people brought Mantras so they wouldn't get interrupted. Right now, they never bring them but cry when they're interrupted... Yeah, GW is dead, but not because of meta.

ousbique · Feb 04, 2009, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

I remember times when people brought Mantras so they wouldn't get interrupted. Right now, they never bring them but cry when they're interrupted... Yeah, GW is dead, but not because of meta.

Mantra of concentration has been nerfed one year ago... (for the GvG blindbots).
Mantra of Resolve has been nerfed three years ago... (for the HA resolve trappers, especially in iway). Last time i used it was in september 2006 (cg rangers). Using this skill with all thoses rendings and anti-channeling skills is totally retarded. (-10 mana tease YEAH)

If you have to take one skill only for countering the godlike ability of ai to interrupt, so there is a serious problem, isn't it ?

HA is dead, but not because of players

i miss seo and sama :'(

Bibik

Killed u man · Feb 04, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

I remember times when people brought Mantras so they wouldn't get interrupted. Right now, they never bring them but cry when they're interrupted... Yeah, GW is dead, but not because of meta.

As I once said it so nice:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

As a reply to this, and you "back to build wars" statement above, I NOW understand what we're supposed to do.

[build prof=Warrior/Mesmer][Dismember][Power Attack][Protector's Strike][Bull's Strike][Warrior's Endurance][Frenzy][Mantra of Concentration][Rush][/build]
[build prof=Warrior/Mesmer][Earth Shaker][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bull's Strike][Flail][Enraging Charge][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Ranger/Mesmer][Melandru's Shot][Hunter's Shot][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Natural Stride][Apply Poison][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Elementalist/Mesmer][Savannah Heat][Searing Heat][Teinai's Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Fire Attunement][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Mesmer/Necromancer][Diversion][Shame][Cry of Frustration][Psychic Distraction][Rend Enchantments][Power Drain][Mantra of Concentration][Resurrection Signet][/build]
[build prof=Ritualist/Mesmer][Channeled Strike][Ancestors' Rage][Offering of Spirit][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Mantra of Concentration][Death Pact Signet][/build]
[build prof=Monk/Paragon][Spear of Lightning][Spear of Redemption][Life Sheath][Reversal of Fortune][Guardian][Spirit Bond][Holy Veil][Aura of Stability][/build]
[build prof=Monk/Paragon][Spear of Lightning][Spear of Redemption][Word of Healing]["Make Haste!"][Patient Spirit][Infuse Health][Holy Veil][Song of Concentration][/build]

OW GEEWZ, THE ANWSER SEEMZ SO OBVIOUS KNAW, WHY DIDNT WE COMZ UP WITH THIS OURSELVEZZZZ?!

This is NOT a viable option... Even so, you loose to much utility, on top of the fact that this still isn't a guaranteed win.

You can't counter interrupts, as they are THE COUNTER to anything. Anything you bring WILL be interrupted by those very interrupts. On top of the fact that WoS and WoW will still be a problem. Weapons arn't strip-able, remember?

Instead of posting bullshit "build wars it" comments, live up to your statements and post a build that GUARANTEES (95% sure) a victory against Teaseway. (As this was possible with previous meta's... Aura of Stab > Thumpers, interrupt OoA = win. 1 simple mesmer > Bspike. etc...)

Edwards · Feb 05, 2009, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Instead of posting bullshit "build wars it" comments, live up to your statements and post a build that GUARANTEES (95% sure) a victory against Teaseway. (As this was possible with previous meta's... Aura of Stab > Thumpers, interrupt OoA = win. 1 simple mesmer > Bspike. etc...)

The problem with teaseway is not that it's hard to counter. TBH, if you shut down their LC and play with a prot monk who isn't unranked, you shouldn't really die at all. The problem is that they have so much defense (3 monks, 1 weapon spell caster who's usually locked on your offensive midline characters) that it's harder to force the chain kills that lead to wipes than it should be.

This leads to a boring meta, because a bad team can get away with making a lot more mistakes than they should be able to, which stretches out games to two or three times longer than they should be, and gives bad teams more chances to capitalize on the mistakes of team better than they are and tools which make it easier than ever to do so.

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 05, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Yes, prot monks are so useful when targeted by [Tease][Power Drain][Drain Enchantment][Signet of Humility].

Late_Night_Limbo · Feb 05, 2009, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Here is the problems with the current meta:

1. Heores don't teach said "noobs" (not in a bad way, just easy way of saying lower ranked) to actually play better and learn from mistakes if heroes can cover for them. (example: they dont kite ever because they know a weapon spell will be on them in 2 seconds flat if they are being trained)

2. Hero bars are basically every unstrippable/unstoppable skill you can pack onto 1 bar, so hero shutdown becomes a joke.

3. Heros can multitask better than any player in the game because they dont have to rely on visual markers to interrupt skills.

4. What happens when Anet removes heroes from HA? the noob players will riot and HA will go back to being dead because all the noob players never bothered to learn proper balanced builds because heroway was so easy.

my problem is that heroes encourage bad play and general idiocy. they dont do anything to make players better at the game. and that is a problem that now is bleeding over into GvG as well.

anyone can flame me all they want for what I said, but you know its true. And if you want to bother to become more skilled at PvP, i encourage you all to read this, because 1 day heroes might be taken out, and what then?.... http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11067

¿Evan¿ · Feb 05, 2009, 04:52 AM // 04:52

As of now Ha is Complete shit and not even worth playing

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 05, 2009, 05:16 AM // 05:16

No. r14?!?! AMAZON.

Edwards · Feb 05, 2009, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Yes, prot monks are so useful when targeted by [Tease][Power Drain][Drain Enchantment][Signet of Humility].

Random interrupts are annoying, but rarely are game-breaking. Having no channeling sucks, but if you're protting effectively, weapon swapping, and have at least some midline defense/shutdown, you should be able to manage. Signet of Humility is potentially very dangerous and since it's so hard to interrupt, and nobody runs condition removal outside of RC/LS, such as PnH, I guess if they bring that skill then you're pretty much screwed.

For the record, I'm not defending teaseway. I genuinely hate it. However, the people who go around acting like it's unbeatable and that the heroes won't let you get a single spell off all game, and that they can preprot before a warrior even decides which target to pick are wrong. It's very beatable, the problem is that playing it/against it is some of the least fun you can have on Guild Wars. People are just not playing HA anymore because it's really, really boring.

Now, I won't pretend to be an expert, but my diagnosis is that the problem is not heroes at all, but rather overpowered offensive skills. Even most "balanced" builds these days run a three monk backline, and most groups have four almost purely defensive characters. This has never been possible in the past, simply because if you tried to run that much defense, you either wouldn't kill, or would take forever to kill (exceptions exist, but only in the form of silly gimmicky builds), which is the way that it should be. Builds that are successful these days are almost always build to have the minimum amount of offense possible while still being able to score kills. In the most recent round of dartboard elite buffs, Izzy gave people some new tools which are extremely powerful for making things die, probably in an effort to promote a more offensive, exiting game. However, it backfired, because people instead have just taken these new skills, and brought more defense, because they no longer need the same resources to kill. Look at the four typical offensive characters brought in teaseway, and you'll see a collection of some of the most powerful skills in the game in 8v8 situations in cramped maps.

Palm Strike is a 123456 build with a lot of power, which can put out pretty stupid amounts of pressure because it can chain different duals with PS every 4 seconds. It's not quite as OP as it was, but could still probably use an adjustment for HA. Sins were originally balanced around the idea of lead - offhand - dual chains, and every step away from that original model (which, admittedly failed itself) seems to lead to builds which hurt the game. (See, Shadow Prison)

Lingering Curse is just stupid, and everyone I've seen argue the contrary is just a person who relies on it to win games. Having Rend on the bar just makes it even worse.

Fire Eles have been ridiculous in HA for a long time, no need to go over that again.

So, you want to fix HA? Don't remove heroes, with the dwindling player base, that will just make things worse. An easier, better approach would be to nerf problem skills, LC being first on the list, followed by PS. Obviously there are a lot of other skills which should be nerfed/changed for HA to really be the format which it has the potential to be, but at the moment, I think everyone would just be glad to see it back to where it was a few months ago.

Krill · Feb 05, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

This has never been possible in the past, simply because if you tried to run that much defense, you either wouldn't kill, or would take forever to kill (exceptions exist, but only in the form of silly gimmicky builds)

Pretty sure teaseway falls into the "silly gimmick build" catagory

Before PnH quite a few teams ran convert rits that had a mix of offense and defense as their third backline. I don't want to get my facts wrong, here but it was really only rspike and BB sins that had a full three monk backline and defensive midliner(s) on top of that. Now PnH is so insanely good that everyone will always be trying to squeeze in 3 monks or running PnH with stupid crap like searing heat and tenia's heat. When I first saw that my eyes were half out of their sockets and bleeding.

I agree though that throwing PS out the door and nerfing LC will make it impossible to run such high amounts of defense, a lot of people have said this. When people started running tease heroes in December I thought for sure it wouldn't last because it's just so damn stupid...and I still don't understand why it's not gone. There probably isn't enough people left in HA with a functioning brain to cause a meta shift. If it doesn't get taken care of for them tomorrow they may as well just close down HA.

=/

Artisan Archer · Feb 26, 2009, 10:02 PM // 22:02

I'm suprised I don't see more fun builds like hamstorm.
I mean you can run
Manly-man way (8 W/nothing)
Armaggedon (8 me/e with meteor shower, 7 optional skills)
The possibilities are endless...

It's the only fun thing left to do in HA.