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Old Mar 06, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25   #1
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Default Omg Cirque Ref Pyth Identity ANet doesn't understand 4v4 balance
Quote:
Addressing Problematic 4v4 Skills


Wail of Doom: increased recharge to 15 seconds.

In 4v4 game types, shutting down a single enemy character is extremely effective. When this skill was combined with offhand and main hand equipment that provides up to a 40% chance to recharge your skills 50% faster (and sometimes a 40% chance to cast faster), it had a strong chance to shut down an opponent for 10 seconds. We felt that this was too powerful, so we have adjusted the skill to compensate.

Disciplined Stance: decreased duration to 1..4 seconds; decreased armor gain to +10.
Defensive Stance: decreased duration to 1..5 seconds; decreased armor gain to +10.
Soldier's Defense: decreased duration to 1..5.
Shield Stance: decreased duration to 1..6.

These stances were originally balanced with 8v8 combat in mind. In 4v4 play, where there are fewer attackers and enemies cannot have as wide a range of utility skills on their team, Monks using these stances have become a problem. We've lowered the durations and armor bonuses to help 4v4 teams fight through these defenses.
OK, so while not everyone agrees that these skills needed a nerf, they definitely saw a fair bit of play and needed a nerf, but ...

Ever since the last Elite update Lingering Curse got buffed massively. Compared to WoD, Lingering is not only stronger, it is easier to use. Wail was overpowered, but Lingering Curse was even more overpowered. What gives, to nerf one skill but not the other? And then there's there're other skills ... Foul Feast??

Cirque, Ref, Pyth, etc, I don't know if you have access to Izzy's super secret balance forums, but can you like give him and ANet a better idea of what's going on in TA?
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31   #2
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What has TA become?!?!?!?!!?! This degenerate piece of shit

On a more serious note, my greatest concern is Vigorous Spirit covering veils. I think the overall reduction for damage from the Primal and Flail nerfs means that dual stances probably aren't as required. This update pretty much just reverts TA to before the last update, since none of the elites in the December 11th update are particularly amazing.

The Rend nerf and Aura buff also means that there's a good deal of space for some enchantment-driven things to come into play though, which may or may not be profoundly lame. I'm interested to see what will come of that.

Off the top of my head: dual signet of midnight mesmers with symbolic celerity and vig spirit covers, ebon dust aura with some daze combination and train the necro to death, smite build with no means to tear through strength and honor, etc.
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 05:12 AM // 05:12   #3
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Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank View Post

Off the top of my head: dual signet of midnight mesmers with symbolic celerity and vig spirit covers, ebon dust aura with some daze combination and train the necro to death, smite build with no means to tear through strength and honor, etc.
You could probably run dual SoM right now with manta of resolves...funny thing about resolve is that you lose energy if you are interrupted, but the person interrupting you also knows it's largely wasted (losing 5-6e with that build = big deal unless it's an axe thumper spamming over and over).

I predict something incredi-gay along the lines of this.

[build=ASACFVsXRVELlrRbsZIAA]
[build=ASACFVsXRVELlrRbsZIAA]
[build=A2ACNPsQ4ScTkXRLEWJAA]
[build=ATACpR0Ae34PIQABWTsWA]
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 05:54 AM // 05:54   #4
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Those stances being hit can't be good for the TA meta. Fortress monks were the only things stopping TA from being even more super defensive by forcing the need of a second defensive character...
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 06:05 AM // 06:05   #5
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Identity doesn't play anymore. Pyth just stopped playing, Cirq doesn't really care. Ref never has. Question answered!
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Old Mar 06, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58   #6
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Identity doesn't play anymore. Pyth just stopped playing, Cirq doesn't really care. Ref never has. Question answered!
Identity does play... periodically.. at least...

he's on and off... dumb korean :P
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Old Mar 08, 2009, 11:36 AM // 11:36   #7
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Identity doesn't play anymore. Pyth just stopped playing, Cirq doesn't really care. Ref never has. Question answered!
Lol small wonder TA balance is the way it is.

Anyway I did overreact when I made this thread. There's nothing to gain from this, other than ranting. So please close the thread, unless someone is willing to start a (genuine) discussion on TA balance.
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Old Mar 09, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31   #8
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When i played my 2 rounds of TA today, i noticed i played all spike teams, besides the groups from RA... I dont mind.
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 01:51 AM // 01:51   #9
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I don't really have access to it anymore, but I can tell you right off that anything related to RA/TA/HA that's posted there really has no influence on overall game balance. Things are strictly balanced for GvG, and if it affects any other form of pvp in a negative way, it doesnt really matter .
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 04:23 AM // 04:23   #10
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Identity doesn't play anymore. Pyth just stopped playing, Cirq doesn't really care. Ref never has. Question answered!
how the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you r7 already
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Old Mar 15, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30   #11
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When i played my 2 rounds of TA today, i noticed i played all spike teams, besides the groups from RA... I dont mind.
Yep, ran balanced for a while.

Got bored and decided to run blackout mes/ele spike and started rolling people like crazy. Degenerate builds ftl
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09   #12
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I don't really have access to it anymore, but I can tell you right off that anything related to RA/TA/HA that's posted there really has no influence on overall game balance. Things are strictly balanced for GvG, and if it affects any other form of pvp in a negative way, it doesnt really matter .
pity ure missing the fact that all broken things tend to foster in TA for a while before unavoidably, with some rare exceptions, mitigating to gvg.

stances/pew pew rangers are the perfect example of that.
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Old Mar 16, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29   #13
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pity ure missing the fact that all broken things tend to foster in TA for a while before unavoidably, with some rare exceptions, mitigating to gvg.

stances/pew pew rangers are the perfect example of that.
Not to mention lingering curse or SoH smite monks
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Old Mar 17, 2009, 08:55 AM // 08:55   #14
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pity ure missing the fact that all broken things tend to foster in TA for a while before unavoidably, with some rare exceptions, mitigating to gvg.

stances/pew pew rangers are the perfect example of that.
And mind blasters with pblock mesmers...oh wait.
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Old Mar 17, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06   #15
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mind blasters with distortion.
The honorless Cakebaker is to blame for these seemingly immortal fire wizards in our beloved team arenas.
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Old Mar 19, 2009, 06:36 AM // 06:36   #16
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>(^o^)< yay team arenas
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Old Mar 19, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46   #17
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The honorless Cakebaker is to blame for these seemingly immortal fire wizards in our beloved team arenas.
Thanks a lot -_-
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Old Mar 19, 2009, 04:17 PM // 16:17   #18
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lol bed of coals on ritualists
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56   #19
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omg sun fire is a mod? Next time I enter this place karla will be the webmaster right

btw they didnt address shit
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Old Mar 22, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38   #20
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omg sun fire is a mod? Next time I enter this place karla will be the webmaster right
and ull still be a nobody.
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