Curse

zling · Mar 23, 2009, 09:56 AM // 09:56

*looking forward to the day when Warriors will start using weapon elites instead of overpowered Strength elites*
P.S excluding Hammer Warriors here, but these seem to be too rare nowadays due to WE's dominance :S

I Angra I · Mar 23, 2009, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Buff Cleave!!!~~~11

moriz · Mar 23, 2009, 11:07 PM // 23:07

cleave: 7 adrenaline
target foe suffers deep wound for 1...10 seconds and takes +1...9 damage. if target foe is knocked down, target foe takes an additional +1...29 damage.

powahcreepin' gogogogogo

zling · Mar 24, 2009, 12:58 AM // 00:58

lol moriz, will make a bad elite even worse

at least in its current state it's somewhat spammable, therefore somewhat viable in PvE

your new version wont be good even for that

moriz · Mar 24, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

then switch the +damage around a bit, and it will become the new eviscerate replacer on axe bars.

Snow Bunny · Mar 24, 2009, 03:48 AM // 03:48

That would mean pure rape after a bstrike

Krill · Mar 24, 2009, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Cleave - 5 adrenaline, +10...34...40 dmg and inflicts cripple condition 5s on moving foes
Eviscerate - 7 adrenaline (better synergy with body blow, still need 8 to spike with executioner's)
Whirling axe - 5 adrenaline, +10...34...40 dmg
Earth shaker - 7 adrenaline
Quivering blade - 6 adrenaline, 3s daze no longer conditional
Skull crack - 8 adrenaline, move to strength, interrupts an action, if spell disables all spells 0...2...5 seconds
Magehunter Strike - 5 adrenaline, +5...17...20 dmg, interrupts an action, if spell disabled +0...2...5 seconds, unblockable if target is enchanted
FGJ - Move to strength with 20s duration @ 13 strength (capped at 20).

Warrior's endurance - Decrease energy gain to 2

Oh yeahhh power creep

Kwisatz_Haderach · Mar 24, 2009, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Cleave - 5 adrenaline, +10...34...40 dmg and inflicts cripple condition 5s on moving foes
Eviscerate - 7 adrenaline (better synergy with body blow, still need 8 to spike with executioner's)
Whirling axe - 5 adrenaline, +10...34...40 dmg
Earth shaker - 7 adrenaline
Quivering blade - 6 adrenaline, 3s daze no longer conditional
Skull crack - 8 adrenaline, move to strength, interrupts an action, if spell disables all spells 0...2...5 seconds
Magehunter Strike - 5 adrenaline, +5...17...20 dmg, interrupts an action, if spell disabled +0...2...5 seconds, unblockable if target is enchanted
FGJ - Move to strength with 20s duration @ 13 strength (capped at 20).

Warrior's endurance - Decrease energy gain to 2

Oh yeahhh power creep

Cleave looks to much like an improved axe version of crippling slash. I always have viewed sword's utility like cripple (granted ax does have a crippling skill) as the tradeoff for the lower criticals and less + damage on most used skills. Also, I am wary of any sort of FGJ buff (despite this hopefully being unused by sins) because of the high potential for abuse specifically in gimmick hammer chains. However, I like your idea for Whirling axe because it has some good effect besides stance removal.

Anyways since everyone is giving out warrior buffs here is mine:

[Decapitate] - 7 adrenaline, +10...34...40 dmg, inflicts cracked armor condition for 5...17...20s

Reasoning: Because of the extremely heavy drawbacks of this skill, it sees little play outside of gimmick W/D bars. In conjunction with Body Blow, I see this as an alternative to Eviscerate spike bars because of the application of cracked armor, the higher unstoppable damage, and the slightly lower adrenaline cost at the expense of having a conditional Deep Wound and the neccesity of having some other packet of damage strike the target after Body Blow to trigger the Deep Wound.

I Angra I · Mar 24, 2009, 10:38 AM // 10:38

As much fun as buffed warrior axe elites would be though, the problem isn't that they are underpowered in their current form. It's that things like WE are way too powerful. ): Also, everything else in the game now, things like pewpew rangers, smite monks, lingering curse, etc etc. are all so powerful that it just makes the old warrior elites like eviscerate seem so much less powerful in comparison.

Once all the other buffed damage gets nerfed back down then bars with evis and cleave etc. will actually become powerful and used again.

Kyp Jade · Mar 24, 2009, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

As much fun as buffed warrior axe elites would be though, the problem isn't that they are underpowered in their current form. It's that things like WE are way too powerful.

This is why this thread is still a joke

Krill · Mar 24, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

Once all the other buffed damage gets nerfed back down then bars with evis and cleave etc. will actually become powerful and used again.

I think at a minimum cleave and a sword elite should be slightly buffed...it's really been a long time since anyone ran cleave or dragon slash, the buffed whirling axe and quivering blade were still mediocre skills too.

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 24, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

If WE is nerfed, just buff Cleave and Eviscerate. No, Eviscerate doesn\'t need to be superbuffed but maybe reducing the adrenaline cost to 7 would make it much better.

The reason why WE is also so strong is from the spamming of Power Attack/Protector\'s Strike and the easy 5 adrenaline deep wound.

A deep wound that can be easily acquired is why PR and WE were also popular. 8 adrenaline for a deep wound and +damage that can be blocked makes people steer away from Eviscerate.

As for sword elites, I believe they are underpowered. Yes, you can argue that they are utility but do you exactly take a warrior to GvG to serve purely as utility?

Maybe add +damage to Crippling Slash, +21 or so @ 14 Swordsmanship. It really would not make Crippling Slash overpowered, just more useful. As for Dragon Slash, I\'m fine with it not being used in PvP, only way I could see it being used again is if the FGJ nerf got reverted.

As for axe elites, Decapitate needs a buff. If you just removed the \"lose all adrenaline/energy\" part, it would make it a lot more powerful than Eviscerate due to the automatic crit and +damage. However, removing the crit would make it nearly the same as Eviscerate so I\'m not sure how to buff it.

scruffy · Mar 24, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

10 adren decapitate that doesnt make you lose adren/energy to be like the backbreaker of axes, would be pretty sweet

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 24, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

10 adren decapitate that doesnt make you lose adren/energy to be like the backbreaker of axes, would be pretty sweet

Because Warriors actually use Backbreaker, correct?

pigdestroyer · Mar 24, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Because Warriors actually use Backbreaker, correct?

the ones who are good, yes.

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 24, 2009, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

the ones who are good, yes.

Obvious sarcasm is obvious.

Reverend Dr · Mar 24, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

After reading one of Ensign's more recent posts it became clear to me, the reason decapitate isn't used is because of the death of pressure styled play. This is the reason that dismember and +dmg fueled by some elite are the staple of caster supported spikes. The reasoning behind this is that in a pressure build the warrior is responsible for more of the damage involved in each player death, while in the spike build each warrior is needed for little more than a deep wound. With more of the spike damage being on the midline, big +dmg skills like eviscerate and decapitate are just not needed.

In our IWAY (yes IWAY, laugh all you want, but the point remains), the last refuge of a pressure build, we'ved tried putting a decap warrior in and it works very well, far better than eviscerate in that same spot. Eviscerate and decap are both good skills, it is just that the style of play to which they are best suited is just no longer viable.

Neo-LD · Mar 24, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

After reading one of Ensign's more recent posts it became clear to me, the reason decapitate isn't used is because of the death of pressure styled play. This is the reason that dismember and +dmg fueled by some elite are the staple of caster supported spikes. The reasoning behind this is that in a pressure build the warrior is responsible for more of the damage involved in each player death, while in the spike build each warrior is needed for little more than a deep wound. With more of the spike damage being on the midline, big +dmg skills like eviscerate and decapitate are just not needed.

In our IWAY (yes IWAY, laugh all you want, but the point remains), the last refuge of a pressure build, we'ved tried putting a decap warrior in and it works very well, far better than eviscerate in that same spot. Eviscerate and decap are both good skills, it is just that the style of play to which they are best suited is just no longer viable.

Your theory seems flawed to me. The vast majority warrior damage has always come from his free auto-attacks. IAS and IMS skills are very important because they multiply that damage by allowing him to hit things more often, but attacks skills historically have contributed only a small percentage of total warrior damage. The main use for attack skills has always been in the short burst of extra damage and deep wound that threatens to kill a target that was otherwise safe. This often takes the form of a full-fledged adren-spike with massive midline assist, attempting to kill targets from virtually full hp, but in more pressure oriented builds can also be a warrior unloading on a target with a low red bar.

Anyways, Decapitate was never widely used because it was considered strictly inferior to Eviscerate. Eviscerate was considered the gold standard of warrior elites, and was used by almost everyone in all sorts of build styles. The only reason that its gone now, as far as I can tell, is that Warriors Endurance has outclassed it in every facet of the game. Its superior for DPS because its attack skills are ready to go so often that they actually do add a significant amount of damage. Its superior for spiking because again, the attack skills are ready to go so often that your spike's recycle rate is only limited by the recharges of the midline assists.

I Angra I · Mar 24, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

WE and Primal synergised so well with how things in the game are now because of how much more fast recharging big damage is on midline these days. Rather than relying on eviscerate to give big spike damage, you have a fast recharging deepwound and a fast recharging followup damage skills (power attack on WE, body blow on primal) to be able to provide the dw+damage on a warrior that is able to keep up with things like pewpew rangers, fc water mesmers, stand rits, etc that have incredibly fast recharging spammable big damage skills.

Yes they were also able to pressure extremely well, but that was the reason why they were used in spike builds as well instead of high damage spiking warriors with elites like eviscerate.

Basically though both the warrior bars and the midline bars are so much more powerful now and should be changed. A lot of it was fixed with the last update for midline, but lingering, smite monks, WE, mels/hunters combined, things like that are still a bit too powerful I think.

Reverend Dr · Mar 24, 2009, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Exactly, its the short burst of extra damage. In a pressure build the warrior is responsible for more of that to score a kill, which is why Eviscerate was more important in those builds. The reason WE is seen more often is not that it outclasses Eviscerate strictly, its that it can spike every 3-5 seconds alongside your rangers and midline casters. This is something eviscerate simply cannot ever do. The burst damage from Eviscerate is almost always higher and more compact than WE, it is just that WE can burst at a much increased rate.

At any rate, the burst damage of Eviscerate (and possibly Decapitate) is best used in pressure when the midline are going to be pressuring the whole team down and then a larger warrior burst gets the kill. Really this style of play is almost never seen, were it more common (i.e. viable) I'm rather convinced that Decapitate would see some use.