Curse

GourangaPizza · Mar 14, 2009, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

It's pretty lame. They nerfed an overpowered skill that was REALLY fun to use, so that people could use a similarly overpowered skill that's not fun to use.

nerf WE please, we need more...

hmm....

[decapitate] warriors

edit. the proliferation of [battle rage] warriors is pretty good - they have to choose when to take the IMS or the IAS. But WE is still broken.

You sir spoke the truth. Not all people who cries about a nerfed imba skill are oblivious to it's 'imba-ness', they just simply enjoy using it.

A few pages back, somebody said no skills should have IMS and IAS combined into one as it will be imba but I have yet to see any melees running [onslaught].

Morgan Crowe · Mar 14, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

It's kinda stupid to run an IAS/IMS based on an enchantment. It will be removed before you can say "I'm using a skill like primal rage!".

ele pl · Mar 14, 2009, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Crowe

It's kinda stupid to run an IAS/IMS based on an enchantment. It will be removed before you can say "I'm using a skill like primal rage!".

Thats why this skill is pretty much balanced. Because it has very easy counter. So had primal, but you could enable it quickly after. But i still think that 15 r is overkill.

Morgan Crowe · Mar 14, 2009, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Thats why this skill is pretty much balanced. Because it has very easy counter. So had primal, but you could enable it quickly after. But i still think that 15 r is overkill.

I don't think so. Or maybe 12r would be better, but if the recharge is too short you can counter it really. Primal only had the counter that you had to cancel it when you got spiked. But this isn't a real counter in my opinion and so isn't stanceremoval. Even in the nH build with almost no shutdown you got rip ench and you can remove the dervish IAS, but stanceremoval isn't really strong at any bars (maybe wild throw on paragon).

Polly still runs PR, so 15r cannot be too bad.

ele pl · Mar 14, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgan Crowe

I don't think so. Or maybe 12r would be better, but if the recharge is too short you can counter it really. Primal only had the counter that you had to cancel it when you got spiked. But this isn't a real counter in my opinion and so isn't stanceremoval. Even in the nH build with almost no shutdown you got rip ench and you can remove the dervish IAS, but stanceremoval isn't really strong at any bars (maybe wild throw on paragon).

Polly still runs PR, so 15r cannot be too bad.

I think that 12r or maybe even 10r would be better, than 15r. Also, as you said, primal had counter, that you should cancel it when being spiked. But oh well, what about pressure? I know, almost nobody runs pressure now, but if you dont cancel it during pressure, that pressure goes on monk's energy bar, so still somewhere that pressure is. Don't forget that primal requied 1 slot moar, which is cancel stance (i didnt count primal itself). That+ 10-12r and primal is fine.

15r cannot too bad, but consider one thing. Some people are still running that, because its a lot of fun. Attacking with 33 % IAS, running everywhere with 25% IMS, nobody can kite you. Its a lot of fun.

Phe Belladona · Mar 14, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

I think that 12r or maybe even 10r would be better, than 15r. Also, as you said, primal had counter, that you should cancel it when being spiked. But oh well, what about pressure? I know, almost nobody runs pressure now, but if you dont cancel it during pressure, that pressure goes on monk's energy bar, so still somewhere that pressure is. Don't forget that primal requied 1 slot moar, which is cancel stance (i didnt count primal itself). That+ 10-12r and primal is fine.

15r cannot too bad, but consider one thing. Some people are still running that, because its a lot of fun. Attacking with 33 % IAS, running everywhere with 25% IMS, nobody can kite you. Its a lot of fun.

primal didnt require an extra slot.. also its fun for the disabled warrior who under normal circumstances cannot play to a level that threatens a bunny rabbit however its not fun for everyone else who has this drooling maniac spazzing all over them with little you can do to remove them. primal needed to die and deserved it. anyone defending it has all their oppinion making priveledges removed and is confined to the cells til further notice.

zling · Mar 14, 2009, 02:14 PM // 14:14

[onslaught] isn't being used because Dervishes just aren't as strong as Warriors. the only things they can do better is condition immunity with [avatar of melandru] though it has a pretty big downtime and deep wound spamming with [wounding strike]. both take up the elite slot so there's no room for [onslaught].

as for secondary Dervishes, [onslaught] is an enchantment thus easily removable...

GourangaPizza · Mar 14, 2009, 03:15 PM // 15:15

^ If you are talking about current [Rend Enchantments] then no arguments there.

Morgan Crowe · Mar 14, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Nearly everyone brings [Rip Enchantment] versus smiters.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 15, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I started using it again and basically it still rules almost as much as it did before.

moriz · Mar 15, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

yeah, i'd think that in lower arenas, especially AB, this skill is still pretty damn hot. not to sure about gvg though. it's still effective probably; however, given how brainless WE is, everyone will play that instead.

Seraphim of Chaos · Mar 15, 2009, 04:25 AM // 04:25

wow i forgot how slow moving around people between attacks without PR is

fuuuuuuuuck bring PR back

Bobulation · Mar 15, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

I run [Onslaught] over [Primal Rage] =D

Reverend Dr · Mar 15, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

[primal rage] + [frenzy]

This is pro ok.

Use primal when you can, use frenzy when primal is down. Works like a normal warrior, only with quite a bit of a boost. Also, you don't have to cancel primal as often as you might think.

JR · Mar 16, 2009, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Thats why this skill is pretty much balanced. Because it has very easy counter. So had primal, but you could enable it quickly after. But i still think that 15 r is overkill.

If by 'balanced' you mean 'garbage'. Underpowered is just as imbalanced as overpowered.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 16, 2009, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

If by 'balanced' you mean 'garbage'. Underpowered is just as imbalanced as overpowered.

Except underpowered skills don't break the game.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 16, 2009, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Underpowered skills make overpowered skills more overpowered... if all elites were worth using people wouldn't complain about oh the only 2-3 skills people use.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Mar 16, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Underpowered skills make overpowered skills more overpowered... if all elites were worth using people wouldn't complain about oh the only 2-3 skills people use.

Not really, underpowered skills are irrelevant because they don't see play anyway.

Overpowered skills set the metagame.

Morgan Crowe · Mar 16, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Underpowered skills make overpowered skills more overpowered... if all elites were worth using people wouldn't complain about oh the only 2-3 skills people use.

Underpowered defend skills would make overpowered offensive skills more overpowered. But if it's the same kind I don't think so. Or will Battle Rage become overpowered if WE is going to be nerfed?

Killed u man · Mar 16, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Not really, underpowered skills are irrelevant because they don't see play anyway.

Overpowered skills set the metagame.

But it is these underpowered skills that determe the overpowered skills, so you're actually correct and I was wrong...

Fix'ed...

Give Primal atleast a chance at 24/7 upkeep without having to mash the button when it comes near recharge... 10-12 s recharge won't make it OP again...

IMS + IAS are SEVERLY overrated...

Imo, WE has ALWAYS been the better build. Yeah, hit one time less every 3-4 seconds because of no IMS (Bull Strike and Shock say hi), but get +30 attack on every second hit, it pretty much evens out...
Where PR got the upper hand really, is the fact that Warriors had a sprint on damage pumping bar, hence introducing nice mobility to a DPS machine...

Regardless, if IMS + IAS is REALLY THAT GODLY, people would still be using R/W [Rampage as One], or the before mentioned D/W... PR was just a, relatively nice, new breeze of air amongst the frontliners, but I never really saw too much problems with it...

WE is a different matter, as it breaks the game into Warriors being able to spam energy skills, something which they're not supposed to do... W/Mo with [Mending] on every team member has never sounds so much win as the day they decided to buff this skill into being a skill, not a stance...

Anyways, back to the IMS:

If it REALLY was that sought after, and "insta-win-godmode", people would have been using ["Incoming!"] paragons with [Hasty Refrain] for a long a time... But they're not... IMS is a nice bonus, but spamming +30 dmg skills outways it...