Curse

scruffy · Apr 06, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

1 make prot was koala bear 2 second cast
2 make PnH like spotless mind,spotless soul,holy veil, purifying veil combined and have a 1s cast
3 make lingering curse reduce healing by 20%
4 make ward against melee to 10 energy 2 second cast 20 second recharge
5 make warriors endurance last 20 seconds so they have a 10 second downtime
6 make splinter weapon do like 50 aoe damage now that VoD is gone
7 buff assassins so that they can actually kill people by themselves
8 buff energy denial

urania · Apr 06, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

7 buff assassins so that they can actually kill people by themselves

i lol'ed.
...

Krill · Apr 06, 2009, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Restoring splinter weapon to the PvE skill sounds like a great idea...buffing assassins does not. Oh yes, please subject us to more high quality skills like palm strike and shattering assault, it's exactly what doctor balance ordered.

distilledwill · Apr 06, 2009, 08:40 AM // 08:40

PnH to 3/4 cast time - makes it d-shottable. The removal of a tonne of hexes is necassery in the current meta (hello lingering, water hexes, GoR Diversion/shame, VoR etc etc), but making it 3/4 makes it similar to RC in terms of ease of d-shot. It doesn't smiters boon it, but it certainly stops it being a auto save person button which can only really be countered with [[Signet of Humility].

Dronte · Apr 06, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

1 make prot was koala bear 2 second cast
2 make PnH like spotless mind,spotless soul,holy veil, purifying veil combined and have a 1s cast
3 make lingering curse reduce healing by 20%
4 make ward against melee to 10 energy 2 second cast 20 second recharge
5 make warriors endurance last 20 seconds so they have a 10 second downtime
6 make splinter weapon do like 50 aoe damage now that VoD is gone
7 buff assassins so that they can actually kill people by themselves
8 buff energy denial

1 - no
2 - 1 sec cast would be great, its imbalanced atm. 1 sec would make it interruptable
3 - obvious, been suggested many times, wont happen though
4 - no thx
5 - more like ~22-23 secs, 7-8 downtime
6 - no, it would be overpowered again

Neo-LD · Apr 06, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

buff energy denial

This.

6789012

Magikarp · Apr 06, 2009, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Power Leech is the only real Edenial, and its still subpar thanks to P&H

God_Hand · Apr 06, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

[Wastrel's Worry] - 6 recharge, or half damage, or 10 energy
[Visions of Regret] - half damage, or hostile skills only
[Lingering Curse] - remove degen, increase recharge, or 15-20%
[Weaken Knees] - remove degen

...I could go on.

God, what is with this game and overpowered spammable hexes? Thanks a lot Izzy.

moriz · Apr 06, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

Crippling Shot and Melandru's Shot are two different skills for two different purposes.

You're retarded.

you fail at reading prior posts.

Neo-LD · Apr 06, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the sad thing is, if cripshot received that buff, it would STILL be weaker than melshot. it would be better at spreading cripple, but decidedly weaker at everything else.

Ups, didn't see that till now.

Hypothetical Cripshot: 5e 1r 1c: Your target becomes Crippled for 1...7 seconds. If it hits a foe that is not moving, that foe begins bleeding for 5...21 seconds. This attack cannot be blocked.

Melshot: 5e 8r 1c: You deal +10...22 damage. If it hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 5...21 seconds, and is crippled for 5...13 seconds.

Faster recharge, unconditional cripple, unblockable vs. +damage, longer cripple. Opposite bleeding conditions are a push.

Looks like Cripshot would be superior in pretty much every aspect of the game except spike assist, which while very important, would not be enough to save Melshot from being replaced in almost every build.

Krill · Apr 06, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

Power Leech is the only real Edenial, and its still subpar thanks to P&H

Someone awhile back had the idea to make Power Leech a combination of Power Drain and Power Leak, which sounds great except for heroes abusing inspiration skills that are perfectly balanced for human players. Thankfully as a hex it's currently not a skill heroes can use properly.

moriz · Apr 06, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Ups, didn't see that till now.

Hypothetical Cripshot: 5e 1r 1c: Your target becomes Crippled for 1...7 seconds. If it hits a foe that is not moving, that foe begins bleeding for 5...21 seconds. This attack cannot be blocked.

Melshot: 5e 8r 1c: You deal +10...22 damage. If it hits a foe that is moving or knocked down, that foe begins bleeding for 5...21 seconds, and is crippled for 5...13 seconds.

Faster recharge, unconditional cripple, unblockable vs. +damage, longer cripple. Opposite bleeding conditions are a push.

Looks like Cripshot would be superior in pretty much every aspect of the game except spike assist, which while very important, would not be enough to save Melshot from being replaced in almost every build.

in that case, yeah cripshot would be better. correct me if i'm wrong, but the whole point of the fast cast bow attacks isn't the +damage (although they are nice), the point is to fire as many arrows into your target as fast as possible. if cripshot is changed to that, then yes, it is most definitely better than melshot.

keep in mind though, i made my comments a page ago based on my "suggested change", which does not have the fast cast. add in the 1c just switches everything around.

Hanging Man · Apr 06, 2009, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I play as a mesmer on my main, so my beef is with mesmer elites and non-elites

[skill]Psychic Distraction[/skill] I like this skill, but the disabling of your skills sucks.
Make it, 15 sec recharge and doesn't disable your skills.

[skill]Simple Thievery[/skill] I like the fact is steals a skill, but since it won't use your att line whats the point? Unless you know ahead of time and place your atts accordingly, I find it useless.

[skill] Expel Hexes[/skill] Recharge to 5 secs. Might make it a lil crazy, but I think it would work.

[skill] distortion[/skill] eles with their large energy pools, combined with Mind Blast make it practically a perma-%75 block to attacks. Switch it for to FC and I'll like it a bit more.

[skill]ether signet[/skill] decrease recharge to 20s or maybe 30s. 45 is way too long, especially for the energy gain you receive.

[skill]inspired hex[/skill] and [skill]inspired enchantment[/skill] Same problem with Simple Thievery, if you don't have the proper atts set up, your stuck with a useless skill for 20s

makosi · Apr 06, 2009, 10:43 PM // 22:43

Distortion in Fast Casting would make life too easy for dom mesmers. As it stands, they need to spread attributes thinly to make Distortion viable on a dom bar.

HotPocket · Apr 07, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

[Weaken Knees] - remove degen

Bad idea, making an elite necro hex the same as a DA sin's hex is not a generally good idea.

Magikarp · Apr 07, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanging Man

I play as a mesmer on my main, so my beef is with mesmer elites and non-elites

[skill]Psychic Distraction[/skill] I like this skill, but the disabling of your skills sucks.
Make it, 15 sec recharge and doesn't disable your skills.

[skill]Simple Thievery[/skill] I like the fact is steals a skill, but since it won't use your att line whats the point? Unless you know ahead of time and place your atts accordingly, I find it useless.

[skill] Expel Hexes[/skill] Recharge to 5 secs. Might make it a lil crazy, but I think it would work.

[skill] distortion[/skill] eles with their large energy pools, combined with Mind Blast make it practically a perma-%75 block to attacks. Switch it for to FC and I'll like it a bit more.

[skill]ether signet[/skill] decrease recharge to 20s or maybe 30s. 45 is way too long, especially for the energy gain you receive.

[skill]inspired hex[/skill] and [skill]inspired enchantment[/skill] Same problem with Simple Thievery, if you don't have the proper atts set up, your stuck with a useless skill for 20s

no offense man, but I think you missed the point on a few of those skills :/

Cirian · Apr 07, 2009, 12:26 AM // 00:26

[skill]Hex Eater Vortex[/skill] - 10e, 1s cast, 5s recharge. Change the aoe enchant stripping of enemies part to an aoe hex removal from allies part, perfectly countering hexes like Lingering and Suffering.

Just as an aside, it's pretty rude that Smite Hex > HEV.

[skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] - 5e, 0.75s cast, 12s recharge. Remove 0...2 hexes from all nearby allies.

Divert and Withdraw Hexes are both candidates for a change like this... it's an aoe Expel Hexes that needs an investment. There are no crazy extras like conditions removed or bonus healing, because that was always far too good... and it'd be insane on an aoe. It's priced such that even if you're only removing 1 hex, it's ok, but when there's multiple, it'll shine.

[skill]Lingering Curse[/skill] - 10e, 0.75s cast, 12s recharge. I actually like the effect as it is, what there should be are some aoe hex removals to counter aoe hexes in general.

[skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill] - Elite Skill. 5e, 0.25s cast, 15s recharge. For 3 seconds, all damage on target ally is reduced to 0.

See what I did there? It's target ally Ether Prism without the energy gain! Simply put, PnH as it is does not belong in GW... nor is tweaking the numbers workable. PnH must die die die, and be reborn (again) as something totally different. Every time I look at he current PnH, I have to /facepalm... it's just unreal. So, another change.

In this case, I'm proposing an unstrippable spike saver that isn't much good against pressure - 3s out of every 15 looks ok to me.

[skill]Read the Wind[/skill] Revert. Honestly, it's Burning Arrow and Hunter's Shot's buffs that have lead to RtW's nerf, so why didn't they tone down the skills they overbuffed?

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill] - remove all +damage. 7s of burning is +98 damage already, which is awesome.

[skill]Hunter's Shot[/skill] - remove all +damage. The bleed and fast activation is enough, easily combining with BA for -10 degen.

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill] - if the bonus heal kicks in, you lose 3e.

WoH is partly why pressure doesn't work so great, and might have something to do with this feeling I have about prot losing importance over raw healing. Raw healing takes less skill than prot... so it shouldn't be rewarded. The current WoH just feels way too good, so when it delivers massive 200+ heals I think it should become more expensive to punish bad protting.

[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] Revert.

Honestly... it's 10e and 1s cast, so the effect should be good for the investment - it's hardly god-mode. Prot = good. Pretty sure Rigor was countering this for when it wasn't being interrupted, at least in GvG. Anyway, I want the old WoW back, it's not like rits have an alternative

Ok, that's enough... balance is a train wreck with the crazy crazy goings on at the moment and it's clearly never going to be achieved, but force of habit is making me type this stuff out regardless... I should stop caring I suppose, but you know how it is

zling · Apr 07, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cirian

[skill]Hex Eater Vortex[/skill] - 10e, 1s cast, 5s recharge. Change the aoe enchant stripping of enemies part to an aoe hex removal from allies part, perfectly countering hexes like Lingering and Suffering.

Just as an aside, it's pretty rude that Smite Hex > HEV.

I thought that was what the Monk elite hex removals were for... generally Mesmer hex+condition removers are offensive not defensive, hence keep the functionality as it is, maybe tweak the numbers, ranges or whatever. and ugh, Smite Hex>Hev? the key to HEV is the AoE enchantment removal from enemies not the damage...

Quote:

[skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] - 5e, 0.75s cast, 12s recharge. Remove 0...2 hexes from all nearby allies.

Divert and Withdraw Hexes are both candidates for a change like this... it's an aoe Expel Hexes that needs an investment. There are no crazy extras like conditions removed or bonus healing, because that was always far too good... and it'd be insane on an aoe. It's priced such that even if you're only removing 1 hex, it's ok, but when there's multiple, it'll shine.

I sort of like this change, only problem being that it's AoE to the Monk's location, which on the 1 hand requires bad positioning to be effective and on the other encourages the likes of HA Smiteballs, both of which are bad. if it's a targetted AoE hex removal it will be better Imho.

Quote:

[skill]Lingering Curse[/skill] - 10e, 0.75s cast, 12s recharge. I actually like the effect as it is, what there should be are some aoe hex removals to counter aoe hexes in general.

it's fine as a AoE hex, like [suffering][shadow of fear], etc. the problem is the massive healing reduction, degen and spammability. reduce healing to 20-25% and increase recharge to say 15 and it will be fine.

Quote:

[skill]Peace and Harmony[/skill] - Elite Skill. 5e, 0.25s cast, 15s recharge. For 3 seconds, all damage on target ally is reduced to 0.

See what I did there? It's target ally Ether Prism without the energy gain! Simply put, PnH as it is does not belong in GW... nor is tweaking the numbers workable. PnH must die die die, and be reborn (again) as something totally different. Every time I look at he current PnH, I have to /facepalm... it's just unreal. So, another change.

In this case, I'm proposing an unstrippable spike saver that isn't much good against pressure - 3s out of every 15 looks ok to me.

so basically the old [life sheath] just with a time instead of damage counter? there's a reason why the old [life sheath] was never used... oh and the only reason people use the new [ether prism] is because of the energy gain, it lets Eles spam Monk/Rit skills more than a primary Monk/Rit can do... the anti spike is just a sought after bonus which makes it superior to other elite energy management skills.

Quote:

[skill]Read the Wind[/skill] Revert. Honestly, it's Burning Arrow and Hunter's Shot's buffs that have lead to RtW's nerf, so why didn't they tone down the skills they overbuffed?

agree here, [read the wind] was fine before the turret ranger template, everyone used [apply poison] over it back than... fix the real problem not otherwise legitimate skills.

Quote:

[skill]Burning Arrow[/skill] - remove all +damage. 7s of burning is +98 damage already, which is awesome.

besides the fact that burning is easily removed by PnH/RC/FF tha yes it's nice extra damage. I do agree that [burning arrow] is 1 of the main problems of the turret ranger template, however the better fix would be to reduce burning time to 3-5 seconds or so and reduce damage to 10-15.

Quote:

[skill]Hunter's Shot[/skill] - remove all +damage. The bleed and fast activation is enough, easily combining with BA for -10 degen.

completely agree

Quote:

[skill]Word of Healing[/skill] - if the bonus heal kicks in, you lose 3e.

WoH is partly why pressure doesn't work so great, and might have something to do with this feeling I have about prot losing importance over raw healing. Raw healing takes less skill than prot... so it shouldn't be rewarded. The current WoH just feels way too good, so when it delivers massive 200+ heals I think it should become more expensive to punish bad protting.

so basically make it a Healing Prayers version of [zealous benediction]? how about reverting it to its old self? the good old prophecies [word of healing] still saw the light of day, not as much as today obviously but it wasn't unused like the good old prophecies [peace and harmony] or other completely trash elite.

well actually reverting it completely will make it almost inferior to skills like [gift of health] so perhaps a middle ground between the old and the new.

Quote:

[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] Revert.

Honestly... it's 10e and 1s cast, so the effect should be good for the investment - it's hardly god-mode. Prot = good. Pretty sure Rigor was countering this for when it wasn't being interrupted, at least in GvG. Anyway, I want the old WoW back, it's not like rits have an alternative

besides the fact that it still is an unremovable prot than nothing was wrong with it in its old state. I actually like the new [weapon of warding] as it can still save your midline/backline but it cant save NPCs and Ghostly Hero, which was why it was so overpowered to begin with...

valence · Apr 07, 2009, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Mel Shot sees a good amount of play due the ease of poison spreading it gives you, combined with hunters. Besides that its a nice spike assist when thrown all 3 on a single target. Since that new crip shot would be better on split, still decent on spikes and is even better at spreading poison, yes it would see to much play (it would be too good).

Just remove all the garbage fast attacks for the ranger.

@Dronte, why do you disagree with party heals at 2 sec? And Scruffy why keep it just for Kaolei (for example divine healing on smiters can be easy replacement when people want, or the current lod which already sees abusement). If you want to balance pressure type of builds, you have to balance the amount of partyheals a team can run. Partyheals at stand are easy to interrupt at 2sec cast, making it more viable on a runner while less attractive at stand.

About ward vs melee. Interestingly just like many other skills its fun to stomp entire lines into the ground due to mesmers. After anet nerfing some mesmer skills, they thought it would be fun to hit anything in the ground that mesmers abuse due to fast casting. Ward vs Melee due to fast casting + MoR, Water skills and Necro skills felt the touch of the mighty mesmer abusing it pleasently with their fast casting attribute. By now people should understand 1sec non mesmer skills should not be affected by fast casting, at all.

But honestly if you want to balance the game properly it goes beyond a few skills.

Anti pressure-Nerf partyheals, force it to be on the runner. If you want a stand partyheal, take the old LoD back (the old LoD cant compete with the current WoH, but the old LoD had a really good design).
Pressure-As a result pressure will be to strong, however due to limitation to partyheals its easier to balance this line of play. Nerf current lolilol pressure skills, and simply op skills. Hexes like lingering curse/VoR, the rangers mel shot/hunters, warriors WE, etc.
Spikes-Tone down spike skills, as a guideline. 15nrg 100+ dmg on eles (assuming they have an attune, makes it 9). 10nrg on every other character. 5nrg around 80. No fastattack shit on rangers. Damage compression like Mirror of Ice, etc.
Op defense-Tone down op defensive skills like: WoH, PnH and at this point BSurge can get some toning down again.

Basically tone down the game in so many aspects, it will never happen.

lutz · Apr 07, 2009, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

you fail at reading prior posts.

Prior posts? You're comparing cripshot to mel shot. That's like comparing a BSurge to a Water Mesmer.
It's retarded.