Curse

Robster Lobster · Feb 26, 2009, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Not all of these are my ideas, feel free to post your own as well!

Nerfs

[Primal Rage] This skill could die for all I care, but I guess there are a few ways to deal with it.

1) Reduce attack increase to 25%, reduce IMS to 15%, remove the double damage

Reinforces the easy mode idea of the skill, frees up an extra skill slot, but should still be less effective than a good warrior using Frenzy + Rush

2) Increase Recharge to 15s

Makes it more worthwhile to force someone out of Primal Rage, and adds some downtime to the skill.

[Flail] 0 duration at 0 spec.

A free IAS for Turret Rangers is just too strong, and this is a big part of the Turret ranger problem.

[Disciplined Stance] Reduce recharge to 10, cut duration in half across the board.

Becomes stronger against spikes, and worse against pressure and collapses. Might prevent people from being forced into running Rigor Mortis. Similar changes should be made to the rest of the stances in Tactics.

[Melandru's Shot][Hunter's Shot] These pretty much need to go, they're incredibly powerful on both Turret rangers and Apply ones. I'm not sure of the best way to keep Melandru's Shot viable if it goes to a normal activation time, maybe unconditional bleeding and a conditional cripple would do it?

[Read The Wind]- Fix the bug

I don't think this skill is a huge part of the problem, but it's been bugged for a long time, and it won't hurt to fix it. Making it half flight time for all bows like Favourable Winds would mean Flatbows would only have Recurve flight time and still be kitable.

[Peace and Harmony]Increase cast time to 1s, increase recharge to 10s

Ridiculous counter skill.

[Strength of Honor] Change to "Target ally deals 3...13...15 more damage with their physical attacks in melee."

This is still very powerful when stacked with Conjure and even if it isn't in the limelight at the moment I'd still like to see it fixed before it crops up in the future.

[Lingering Curse]Increase Energy cost to 10, reduce healing debuff to 20%

This skill is so powerful at the moment that it basically forces every single team that thinks they might come up against it to run an elite Hex Removal skill. I'm not sure if this change does enough, but I would like it to still be viable.

[Foul Feast] Increase cast time to 3/4s

Compared to Draw Conditions (already a good skill) this is just too strong, it needs something to set it apart from Draw. Making it possible to interrupt does just that.

[Glyph of Immolation] Move to Energy Storage

Glyph of Immolation is too good with Steam on mesmers, although I think it's quite an interesting skill. Moving it to Energy Storage is a buff to Primary Ele's, and a nerf to Me/E which is a good thing.

[Steam] Drop damage on both value by 20-30, consider swapping the damages around so that using it on a non-burning target does more damage.

This skill does a ton of damage for a defensive skill.

[Hidden Caltrops] Increase cast time to 2 seconds, increase energy cost to 10, restore the old fixed 10 second hex duration with scalable cripple duration.

I'd much rather see people taking E/Rt or Rt/E if they want a snare on a flagger bar, this change barely leaves HC viable which is a good thing, the skill really hurts the viability of splits at the moment.

[Protective was Kaolai] Increase cast time to 2 seconds.

Makes it much more attackable.

Buffs

[Wild Blow] Change from "Lose all Adrenaline" to "Lose 3 strikes of adrenaline" (with a successful hit of Wild Blow meaning you've lost 2 adrenaline).

Becomes a decent skill for warriors looking to counter stances, without allowing for a spike immediately after Wild Blow.

[Crippling Shot] Reduce recharge back to 1s.

[Light of Deliverance] Reduce recharge to 6 seconds, change to only affect party members in earshot below 80% health.

It would be nice to have a few other options for party healing, not sure if this is the best change though.

[Spirit Bond] Move to Healing prayers.

This is a change I've been thinking about for a while, and one I think would be very interesting. For a start, it would make Healing Prayers a more robust line, and it isn't too out of place there, being similar to Supportive Spirit. It would essentially gives monks 2 options, optimise their bars completely, or keep them as they are now and have a fairly strong option against P-Block. I think this is the way to deal with P-Block on monks, give them more options for taking skills from different lines. Most of the changes I've seen for P-Block don't really change the fact that if you P-Block a monk, you can very often get a kill, without reducing the duration of its effect to the point where it becomes quite unattractive.

[Aura of Stability] Allow it to self target, reduce the duration by 1 or 2 seconds.

Should stop Prothunter's Smash strategies.

[Blood Bond] Change functionality to: 17% sac 10e 2c 10r Enchantment spell. All other party members gain 1...5...6 Health Regeneration for 5 seconds.

Could be an interesting new party heal, and brings some more versatility to the blood magic line. The big problem with this though is that it would be incredibly powerful on that stupid D/N bar. I wouldn't have a problem with some kind of PvP only nerf to Arcane Zeal though, as bars like that are boring to play and shouldn't really be viable.

[Windborne Speed] Reduce energy to 5, reduce cast time to 3/4s.

A great skill that just needs a nudge in the right direction to become very playable, both for flagging, and for utility in a stand team.

[Ward Against Melee]- 10en/1c/20 recharge "You create a Ward Against Melee at your current location. For 5...17...20 seconds enemies in this Ward attack 50% slower."

The blocking effect of the old ward was frustrating as it meant that it was entirely possible for you to miss your important attacks, especially for Hammer warriors. This change does a number of things, firstly it provides decent anti-pressure in the elemental line, and it has good synergy with a few other skills (Blind + Blurred). However, it is still disruptable, meaning that it will require some skill to keep up a lot of the time. Another aspect is that the damage reduction isn't the same as the old Ward Against Melee, although it is more consistent.

[Icy Shackles] Reduce energy cost back to 5

I don't really see why this was changed.

[Glyph of Swiftness] Move to Energy Storage

Glyph of Swiftness doesn't really see any play at the moment (in PvP), while I don't think that moving it to Energy Storage is going to really change that, it's at least a start for looking at buffs.

[Can't Touch this] Change functionality, 5e 15r Shout. For 1 second, all attacks used against target other ally miss, and all spells used against that ally fail (50% chance of failure with Leadership 4 or less).

Adds a unique and very versatile skill to the paragon line.

I'm sure I've missed some skills, might edit them in later.

zelgadissan · Feb 26, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

I'm not exactly king of PvP so I shouldn't necessarily make my own comments, but I can certainly explain this:

Quote:

[Icy Shackles] Reduce energy cost back to 5

I don't really see why this was changed.

Makes it more energy-intensive for Me/E to run. Same reason why all the management skills (Glowing Gaze, Glowing Ice, Glowstone, Shock Arrow) got changed to work off of Energy Storage.

Robster Lobster · Feb 26, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Yeah, I get that, but Icy Shackles was never really the problem with the Me/E bar, and if it was buffed back to 5 energy I don't think it would necessarily be the elite of choice on them if nothing else is changed. I really think the wrong parts of that bar were nerfed to be honest.

Apok Omen · Feb 26, 2009, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I humbly agree with Rob's proposals.

Here is something that could be added to his:

[skill] dulled weapon [/skill] Change skill to Weapon Spell. Change functionality to: For (0...3..3) seconds, target foe has a Dulled Weapon. This Weapon does nothing.

Would bring a weapon removal skill to the table without changing a mechanic on another classes skill. Might become a silver bullet skill, but that never stopped Anet from making [skill] wild blow [/skill]...

Krill · Feb 26, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

First logical question is who's doing skill updates now that Izzy is supposedly off GW1? Are we even going to get post mAT updates?

I'd be happy with updates to LC and PnH. Still a mystery as to why Izzy nerfed the BB sin (and killed a warrior skill in the process), then made PS, which has almost the same power level and is 10x easier to play but w/e...people would probably rage so much now if PS was killed off as an experiment gone wrong. PR probably fits into the same category as a skill that is probably OP but would see major QQ'ing if it was nerfed out.

At any rate there was some decent build variety in the mAT so I'm not getting my hopes up on any major skill changes this month. There was rawrspike, cookie spike, nH's build and hex pressure builds that all seemed competitive...doubt whoever is skill balancing will want to upset that variety.

FoxBat · Feb 26, 2009, 10:29 PM // 22:29

They should just MoI-ify Caltrops, it's not even viable on sins yet completely stupid on defensive characters.

Quote:

It would essentially gives monks 2 options

I don't see it. They'd stick SB on the heal monk, and something like SH, SoA, Balanced, etc on the prot. Maybe we'd see a little more Gift being used, but prot monks are not going to carry a healing-prayers SB.

Tacking an aftercast to the 1s attacks was already mentioned, but "this skill deals ONLY x damage" a la dshot would go a long way against turrets. Heck maybe that should be applied to savage too.

Joseph Spiritmaster · Feb 26, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

[skill] dulled weapon [/skill] Change skill to Weapon Spell. Change functionality to: For (0...3..3) seconds, target foe has a Dulled Weapon. This Weapon does nothing.

This would be a COMPLETE opposite of a wep spell... only cause a) you cast it on a foe. 2) it would be Easily striped.

keep it a hex...

maybe use some hex removal? works wonders!

***and making PwK a 2 second cast time? you mean you cant interupt a 1 second spell? okay.... gg.

(even after this rant against people against rit skill nerfs, i still agree with some of the skill buffs)

Expherious · Feb 27, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I honestly dont think any of these skills need changing at all, theyre all good for now.

Michael805 · Feb 27, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Spiritmaster

This would be a COMPLETE opposite of a wep spell... only cause a) you cast it on a foe. 2) it would be Easily striped.

keep it a hex...

maybe use some hex removal? works wonders!

***and making PwK a 2 second cast time? you mean you cant interupt a 1 second spell? okay.... gg.

(even after this rant against people against rit skill nerfs, i still agree with some of the skill buffs)

I think you completely missed the point...

I think [primal rage] is fine in its current state. Reducing the IMS to 15% wouldn't be horrible, but considering you lose your elite slot, I don't deem it necessary.

PwK is fine imo.

If you want [wild blow] to be decent, reduce cast to 1s.

For [foul feast] just bump up the recharge.

As for [icy shackles], why not just fix fast casting and [hidden caltrops]?

Sun Fired Blank · Feb 27, 2009, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Light of Deliverance: 5E 1A 6R? Everyone runs a midline Light of Deliverance, and people never die to pressure. Awesome change.

My opinions on the rest of your proposed updates? Roughly in line with the above sentiment.

Robbert Monga · Feb 27, 2009, 02:13 AM // 02:13

[Shield Bash] needs much reduced effectiveness at 0 strength.
[Burning Shield] need to be changed into shout affecting party members

Robster Lobster · Feb 27, 2009, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Light of Deliverance: 5E 1A 6R? Everyone runs a midline Light of Deliverance, and people never die to pressure. Awesome change.

That change limits its ability to stack with other party heals, and there aren't that many midline templates it's strong on apart from the one in nH build, which is hurt by various other suggested changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael805

I think [primal rage] is fine in its current state. Reducing the IMS to 15% wouldn't be horrible, but considering you lose your elite slot, I don't deem it necessary.

This is the strongest warrior elite in the game at the moment (probably the strongest one ever in the history of the game if you exclude the 33% IMS version). Everyone is running this skill, and as a result various indicators of individual player skill, like kiting and good positioning are being pushed to the sidelines.

Michael805 · Feb 27, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robster Lobster

This is the strongest warrior elite in the game at the moment (probably the strongest one ever in the history of the game if you exclude the 33% IMS version). Everyone is running this skill, and as a result various indicators of individual player skill, like kiting and good positioning are being pushed to the sidelines.

It's not because of 5 (almost) pure defense characters in many of the meta builds (rawr spike) atm, or anything. If you have enough defense, kiting gets moved to the back burner, and the 1 or 2 spike skills you have take priority -- prage can just capitalize on this.

Maybe just reducing the duration on it would do it some good, as it wouldn't allow quite as much excess energy to bulls/shock.

Asplode · Feb 27, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Isn't there already a topic about what people want to see in a future balance patch?

Isn't it already on the same page here?

To be on-topic:
I'd like to see rawr spike nerfed into the ground, because another team has picked it up and is better than us at running it.
Hence, the best way for us to survive is for the build to be nerfed ^_^

Robster Lobster · Feb 27, 2009, 08:14 AM // 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

Isn't there already a topic about what people want to see in a future balance patch?

Isn't it already on the same page here?

Only if there isn't going to be a balance update before April.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 27, 2009, 10:02 AM // 10:02

Good list, I agree with everything except Hidden Caltrops, this should get the Mark Of Insecurity treatment. Rt/A should not have access to snares.

I'm missing Recuperation on this list though.

pah01 · Feb 27, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

/signed on nerflist. Not on Buffs.

qvtkc · Feb 27, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

[fear me] No recharge. Earshot range.

the_deSKtructor · Feb 27, 2009, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by qvtkc

[fear me] No recharge. Earshot range.

rrrrrrrright

Ec]-[oMaN · Feb 27, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Good list, I agree with everything except Hidden Caltrops, this should get the Mark Of Insecurity treatment. Rt/A should not have access to snares.

I'm missing Recuperation on this list though.

I'd love to see garbage such as read/PR/Melshot/Caltrops/flail all get nerfed into the ground, remove this garbage that is power creep on frontline, snares, and runners that can lawl at you with little downside. Where has the skill gone where you had to tweak your bar in order to push flagers or save up rush, imba long lasting cripple from melshot at 1 activation and 5 energy, think back to crip shot, higher energy, interruptible, dodge-able, and runners that would have to go RT/E if they wanted snares....