Curse

NoXiFy · Feb 09, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Ok, for clarification. Why is it hard to form a PuG group in HA currently, because NOBODY plays HA. So, most pug's and alot of guild groups only take 6 people now because finding 8 good players is difficult these days. If it's gonna stay 8v8 they NEED heroes because you wont ever be able to find the last two.

How about 8v8 no heroes but henches. That's what I think would be fair, if you cant wait for people use the henches. Why did Anet never put in a Zaishen Mesmer [Henchman], cause there so fcking good with ineptitude they knew it would be imbalanced. Not being able to play balanced because 1: your ele's cant cast shit cause of tease and 2: your melee cant hit shit cause of WoW and WoS.

So yea, I'd personally vote 6v6 old maps and all that. It was fun then... so why change it? It's so easy to win with smiteway on all the 'balanced' maps they added like Forgotten Shrines because you have 3 monks, (sometimes 4), a me/rt party healer/weapon'r. And 2 solo spikers that can split and spike whoever on your team that trys to solo cap (cept a bsurge or a rit)

newbie_of_doom · Feb 09, 2009, 12:43 PM // 12:43

6v6 HA with heroes

Gnat Attack · Feb 09, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

You people only want 6v6 because it's just different. It's quite evident that everyone is so desperate to play and enjoy this game you guys are willing to do anything to make it exciting again.
IMHO i don't think it will make it better, I think 8v8 is as good as it will get. Just kill quarter activation rupt and epic weapons at epic time(But I'm sure it's harder to fix than just say).

As I recall many players used to just HATE it when it was 6v6. I used to talk to a few [EviL] players and the reason why they kinda stayed away from HA more than gvg was the 6v6. But that was like 3 years ago and this game totally different than it was back then.

So who actually knows. But if you want to change HA to 6v6 b/c of heroes...i don't think it will happen

Wrath of m0o · Feb 22, 2009, 05:02 AM // 05:02

I vote 12vs12

Jam Jar · Feb 22, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o

I vote 12vs12

Laggy much?

12345

Reverend Dr · Feb 22, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

Laggy much?

Like this aura of the lich stuff?

Never actually had a lag problem with the old 12v12 GvG's, so I don't see why it lag would be a reason against 12v12.

Loki Seiguro · Feb 22, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Our Lady Of Sorrow

tbh.. id have 8v8 with no heroes.. i personally find 8v8 more fun.
but id settle with nerfed heroes.. i have stopped HA atm until the meta blows over.. lamest its been in months..

i never want to see 6v6 again..
thats what made me quit first time..

sry gimmick builds will never blow over. It'll always be replaced with another...teasway becomes IWAY and now lichway and mathway is becoming more common as gimmick builds too.

Golden Rice · Feb 22, 2009, 08:05 PM // 20:05

solution = bring all gimmicks back

gimmicks > meta > balanced > gimmicks > other gimmicks < meta < gimmicks < other gimmicks < balanced

see how that works

EDIT: it aint lichway, its just my deathspike modded into a very gay build that does a little more damage so they can kill rangers
MoD + cold shields or tease the N/A and dshot 2-3 dswarms = gg
i find playing sfway a little harder

Apok Omen · Feb 22, 2009, 10:48 PM // 22:48

If I remember correctly, everyone wanted 6v6 removed. You were lucky to kill something balanced vs. balanced because all balanced was was 1 erf shakur, 1 warder, 1 PD, 1 optional, and 2 monks.

Of course, there were many other options besides balanced. You had deerway (dryder would pay you x-amount of K to resign for him, then he would hold halls until he died of insomnia), Jaggedway(the bane of deerway), 2 SPsins + 2 SH eles (great for scoring cheap kills, especially on Killcount maps), Bloodspike (GW wouldn't be GW if B-spike ceased to exist), SoHWspike (rend was awesome against this, same with NR), IWAY (the one with 3 IWAY wars, 1 FC nuker, and I forget the other two. Probably OoA and OoV.), SFspike (1 human, 5 AI [nerfed after a while])

In this 8v8 metagame, you actually have less variety. You have balanced (2 frontline, 3-4 midline, 2-3 backline. No heroes except for maybe Olias for Tainted), Teaseway (2 PS sins, 1-2 Gwens/Ogdens with Tease, 1 SH ele, 1 LC necro, 1 PnH, 1 LS, 1 WoH), Smiteway (2 Frontline, 1-2 Ion Cannon heroes[1 could be a PnH instead, 2 backline, 1-2 SH, 1 LC), Lichway (deathspike with AotL), Mathway (Assacaster with tons of nukers), Bspike, IWAY (4 BR wars, 2 EP healers, 1 Oath, 1 PnH)....

What have we learned from these past metagames? Well, whenever offense is buffed, defense is allowed (as well as needed) to be added. PS sins can spike every 10-12 seconds, SH can nuke balls, LC can make any party heal worthless. PnH seems almost useless to bring due to the only hexes being ran are from PD messes and LC necros (and yet PnH is still brought due to its ability to remove any hexes in a flash). Tease is only run on Heroes due to their amazing ability to interrupt anyone, but no serious Mesmer would run it when PD is more attractive.

With 6v6 now, you would see groups with 2 PS sins, 1 LC, 1 Tease hero, and 2 monks. So no, 6v6 is not the answer. The only reason people are debating it is because HA has not seen any attention for many months. They are looking for any change.

Master Ketsu · Feb 23, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

6v6 was tried and failed. It is to die and never be spoken of again.

You want to fix HA ?

-Balance the skills better.

-Change the ranking system to tone down 90% of the exponential gap increase between ranks, include a leaderboard for top 100 ranked players, and then reset the ranks every month.

-Maximum 2 heroes kept in place. If you lose to heroes, it's because you are either bad or your teammates are bad.

-new maps

The Savage I · Feb 23, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

6v6 was tried and failed. It is to die and never be spoken of again.

You want to fix HA ?

-Balance the skills better.

-Change the ranking system to tone down 90% of the exponential gap increase between ranks, include a leaderboard for top 100 ranked players, and then reset the ranks every month.

-Maximum 2 heroes kept in place. If you lose to heroes, it's because you are either bad or your teammates are bad.

-new maps

gain 1 fame per hall win!

Killed u man · Feb 23, 2009, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

-Maximum 2 heroes kept in place. If you lose to heroes, it's because you are either bad or your teammates are bad.

Getting teased on infuse health does not make you, or your teammates, bad at this game. It makes the Hero AI redicilously out of check. And by making such a statement, you clearly never played a non-buttonbash bar.

When I play Warrior, let it be Hammer, W/A (daggers, one of my evil creations) or good ol' axe, getting Teased on Bulls, 1% cast finished, isn't all that rare. Let alone get interrupted mid spike combo (executioners) in frenzy. (So it's a <0.5 sec cast)

There have been enough QQ-threads about it, but they are justified. Hero AI has always been frowned upon by the "better" PvP community, yet has always been reasonably beatable... Up till now.

Teaseway is simply TOO strong.

The old Fireway (Heroes + AoE skills = mad), or even the Taint/MM + Hex combo were overpowered, but beatable if played right.

With Tease, it's a whole different story, as it is the first time that heroes manage to run a counter-build themselves. Tease CANNOT be shutdown, as IT IS the shutdown. You want to Sig of Hum it? A hero will gladly tease that 2.xxx second cast. Want to Divert it? A hero will gladly p drain your diversions.
And when he's not interrupting your counters, he's busy effectly shutting down your Monks, with interrupts on 1/4's atleast once a match. (If I get 1 zkey for every time I got interrupted on a 1/4th -1/8th as of HB- over the past 2 months, I would have multiple stacks)

Regardless of that, 6v6 HA is bad.

It killed diversity during Old-School holding, can U only imagine what it'll do with these shitconditions in HoH?

Bear with me:

Song + Make Haste, that's a /P.
Foes + Snares, that's a E or /E.
Defence: That's 2 Mo.
Shutdown: Thats a Me or R.
Damage: That's a W or an A.

Let's see:

W, A
/P
E, /E
Me, R
Mo
Mo

That will be your generic team. Your 2 Monk bars are already set. (As they are now), so will your Mes and Ranger bar be. (PD, and rangers are always the same: Dshot+ Savage shot abuse)
E or /E: Either Fire Ele, or a Lingering Curse necro.
/P is the ONLY bar that leaves somewhat orginality. Even that is limited by the fact that 3 skills are already predetermined. (Make Haste, Song + Sig)
Warrior is always a generic bar.

You still don't have any Wardings, Kaolei's, Hard rezzes, etc...

6v6 will kill build diversity even more than HoH+ shitconditions did. Nty...

Titine · Feb 23, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

In my guild, when we are 8, we go GVG, and when we are 6 we go HoH with 2 heroes.

So 6v6 without heroes for me.

I believe few changes in map objectives may bring back some build diversity.

Krill · Feb 23, 2009, 01:13 PM // 13:13

Nerf hero's interrupt ability
Nerf LC
Nerf PnH

HA will at least be rolled back to where it was a couple months ago. I'm just going to keep harping on PnH and LC for posterity because I RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing hate both skills so much.

Um Yeah · Feb 23, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Rice

its just my deathspike

Lolz

12 chars

Bowstring Badass · Feb 23, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

More overly defensive builds in HA with less spike builds? No, thank you.

Master Ketsu · Feb 24, 2009, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote: