Curse

GourangaPizza · Apr 02, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

I know but the problem here is you need weakness to get the full advantage out of Fierce Blow. Nowadays conditions removal is cheap and rampant.

Reverend Dr · Apr 03, 2009, 03:49 AM // 03:49

You have about a second from when the weakness is dropped to the extra damage from Fierce.

If the backline characters are able to pay that close of attention to your spike, then it wasn't getting off anyway. The beauty of the Enraged is that you can prettymuch spike whenever you have 5 energy for enraged.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 04, 2009, 08:23 AM // 08:23

[backbreaker][pulverizing smash][hammer bash][bull's strike][flail][death's charge][enraging charge][resurrection signet]
Berzerker stance is good for charging BB faster but it's a bit inconvenient as a flail substitute.

I tried this with a pair of monks on TA, one of them had RoJ and was supposed to cast it when I called backbreaker. I liked the build alright, but the ray monk didn't quite get that she *had* to coordinate with me otherwise it just wouldn't work. Got a few kills with it when she'd cast it on my knockdown victims, but then she'd use it on the WS derv's target seconds before I was going to call a spike on the monk.

I'd really like it if a searing flames nuker or something like that would coordinate spikes with me.

Byron · Apr 06, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Yeah I went about with some hammer theory this weekend in RA. Found out what I consider an optimized bar, though its really only good in RA:

[enraged smash][pulverizing smash][fierce blow][heavy blow][burst of aggression][rush][shock][resurrection signet]

It generally fails when compared to the typical template, but it's cool to 4-hit people from 600 to 0. You need shock for people who don't move. Make sure to rush before burst runs out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

backbreaker build

The problem with backbreaker is that you are building 10 adren for something that will likely miss, or be subject to aura/balanced stance. Then its another 6-10 hits before you can use your elite. If you want a long KD, Dev is just as good, assuming you can qknock. If you're basing a spike around the KD, though, magebane is probably best. Also, crushing blow should replace pulverizing.

uzumaki · Apr 07, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Why restrict your search to 5e spells? D-shot says Hi.

Srsly... I'm surprised noone mentioned d-shot. It's by far one of the best non-elite skills in the game and it's just too good to pass on a hammer warrior.

[Eminent Gladiator's Skills;OQISE5JP81xCYZp8YYKGWBA]

Ranged interrupt is golden on a melee class even moreso when you have fail monks/rangers/mesmers on your team. D shot your own anti-melee hexes, blind etc. not to mention res sigs and diversions/shames etc if you're feeling generous.

Yes, you have to switch weapons to d shot but once you get your weapon swapping/timing down you can start to quarter rupt spells (same principle as quarter kd). Quarter kd'ing a monks patient and getting him below 50% hp makes it rediculously easy to predict a d shot on woh. Also if you're just standing around waiting for hexes to expire/be removed, you can scout around for a dshot instead of being useless.

In a PnH meta it just owns. I absolutely slayed a PnH monk with d shot recently. I got his vig spirit, patient and PnH in a single match. That's right i'm amazing.

Oh and as for the guy i met the other day claiming i copied his quarter d shot hammer warrior idea, all i have to say is WTF. I am the original d shot hammer war and everyone knows it. I've been quarter shotting since the beginning of time and I already proved i play it thousands of times better than you gtfo kthx.

Pm me if you want my autograph.

^^ Don't really.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 07, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

The problem with backbreaker is that you are building 10 adren for something that will likely miss, or be subject to aura/balanced stance.

True, I'm good at not having it get blocked but it's still a huge pain to build 10 adrenaline for your spike, like it just gives me a headache. The point was to KD chain somebody with backbreaker and have the smiting monk cast ray on them while they're stuck for 7-8 seconds. Great in theory, got rolled by a 4 monk team using this, but the monk I had didn't really get it.

I did like backbreaker more than I thought I would. [pulverizing smash] is so that the target is still weakened even if it survives.

scruffy · Apr 07, 2009, 08:08 AM // 08:08

d-dagger
prot strike
deaths charge
berserker stance
power spike
grasping earth
irresistable blow
to the limit
rip enchant
black out
shock
sight beyond sight
frigid armor
antidote signet
mending touch
mokele smash
iron palm
plague touch
rigor mortis

Shadow Slave · Apr 07, 2009, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzumaki

D-shot says Hi.
[Eminent Gladiator's Skills;OQISE5JP81xCYZp8YYKGWBA]

...o_O /drool

I want. I shall seek.

Byron · Apr 08, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

I laugh at how you need to weapon swap to bow to dshot, then back to hammer to attack. You'll either be camping the bow for good dshots or barely using dshot at all, neither of which are good options.

Quarterrupt with dshot? Maybe you'll get stuff against an RA monk. But generally in doing this, you will just watch your target walk away.

Xyon the Greatest · Apr 08, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Wariors Endurance works well because you can spam these heavy damage attack skills, and do alot of damage.

This build might look nooby, but it is extremely effective, and can almost spike :P

[Hammer Bash][Crushing Blow][Power Attack][Protectors Strike][Bull's Strike][Frenzy][Dash][Warrior's Endurance]

uzumaki · Apr 09, 2009, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

I laugh at how you need to weapon swap to bow to dshot, then back to hammer to attack.

Hi.

Probably because you're bad at weapon swapping; try using the escape key. I can use 2 hammer attacks with an IAS after a 2 second kd before i quarter d-shot, then a simple split second swap (using esc key) back to hammer.

Quarter d-shotting sacrifices less damage than trying to quarter kd with a hammer where you can only use 1 hammer attack (usually deepwound) after kd'ing and before attempting the q-kd. The only exception being if your utility skill is protectors strike which has a 1/2 activation time and like d shot allows you to use 2 hammer attacks (after kd'ing and before q-kd'ing).

Like i said before, you can scout for d shots when waiting for hex removal/expiration and d shot res sigs if you are too far to kd, so you're wrong about camping your bow.

So in summary to say d shot is a bad option on a hammer warrior is just plain ignorant and shows your complete lack of knowlege in the art of weapon swapping q-knocking/shotting. Remember d-shotting with an IAS is far quicker than a single hammer hit under IAS therefore you can fit in an extra attack before quarter knocking.

~ Touche

ignoranus

360° · Apr 09, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Too bad d-shot has aftercast, so "a simple split second swap" isn't really the correct term.

Just pointing that out, d-shot on a hammer bar is quite RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sexy. Why I never thought of that...

Bobby2 · Apr 09, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzumaki

Probably because you're bad at weapon swapping; try using the escape key. I can use 2 hammer attacks with an IAS after a 2 second kd before i quarter d-shot, then a simple split second swap (using esc key) back to hammer.

I wish I was good enough at swapping to make DShot worth it, I honestly do... but I can't remember the last time I caused a 2 sec KD so it might not matter

Byron · Apr 09, 2009, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzumaki

So in summary to say d shot is a bad option on a hammer warrior is just plain ignorant and shows your complete lack of knowlege in the art of weapon swapping q-knocking/shotting. Remember d-shotting with an IAS is far quicker than a single hammer hit under IAS therefore you can fit in an extra attack before quarter knocking.

~ Touche

ignoranus

Well, at first this made me a little mad. Some RA veteran accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, for the umpteenth time, gets me all bothered. But then, I realized that we are of two different schools of thought. I'm of the school where warriors use their weapons to deal damage, utilizing knockdown and deep wound to score kills in an opportunistic fashion.

But, apparently, what we are interested in here is a bar to make you look cool. I'm sure its fun to qrupt with dshot. Nonetheless, you have to swap to a different class of weapon. Warriors do this sometimes; switch to a staff to dpact or cast conjure, spear swap to build adren, etc. But when you have a bow attack skill mixed with a bar of melees, it becomes fundamentally flawed.

Maybe your vaunted self confidence is a matter of formats. I've never seen dshot on a frontliner in GvG. Not even in ladder freeze joke builds. Perhaps dshot works well on melees in RA and AB; I wouldn't know or care.

I can't explain it more than that. In a good battle, you need every inch and second to pump out damage, score kills, and be constantly aggressive. Any supplemental skills should only add to that end. Dshot, while powerful, just doesn't fit into the frontline.

Lux Aeterna · Apr 10, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Q-knocking question:

So hammer attacks are 1.75 seconds, or 1.21 under IAS. Calculator says that 3 attacks under IAS is 3.63 seconds, and 2 without IAS is 3.5. Neither one of those is 1/4 sec above 3 seconds (3.25 seconds).

So how exactly do you Q-knock with a hammer ? I've been able to shock interrupt reversal of fortune upon a monk's getting up from bull's strike, but how do you Q-knock with a hammer (as opposed to .63 second locking) ? I'm guessing you could time your flail activation perfectly to change the attack rate after a KD ?

Most people probably just .63 sec and pretend.

Byron: don't be such a jerk when his tactic could disable word of healing and he's fast enough to do it without losing any hammer damage. Unlike axe/sword hammer doesn't have any good interrupt options and a 1/2 second activation time skill disabling interrupt would be extremely powerful.

mcosad · Apr 10, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Only way to qknock is to kd, flail, attack, stop attacking, and then hit hammer bash as they get up. You can't fit in the second attack.

uzumaki · Apr 10, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Hi Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I wish I was good enough at swapping to make DShot worth it, I honestly do... but I can't remember the last time I caused a 2 sec KD so it might not matter

Use Stonefist Insignia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

Well, at first this made me a little mad. Some RA veteran accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about, for the umpteenth time, gets me all bothered. But then, I realized that we are of two different schools of thought. I'm of the school where warriors use their weapons to deal damage, utilizing knockdown and deep wound to score kills in an opportunistic fashion.

But, apparently, what we are interested in here is a bar to make you look cool. I'm sure its fun to qrupt with dshot. Nonetheless, you have to swap to a different class of weapon. Warriors do this sometimes; switch to a staff to dpact or cast conjure, spear swap to build adren, etc. But when you have a bow attack skill mixed with a bar of melees, it becomes fundamentally flawed.

Maybe your vaunted self confidence is a matter of formats. I've never seen dshot on a frontliner in GvG. Not even in ladder freeze joke builds. Perhaps dshot works well on melees in RA and AB; I wouldn't know or care.

I can't explain it more than that. In a good battle, you need every inch and second to pump out damage, score kills, and be constantly aggressive. Any supplemental skills should only add to that end. Dshot, while powerful, just doesn't fit into the frontline.

RA veteran? Nice assumption but it's a shame only the truth hurts

. You'll have to try harder if you are attempting to insult me. Immaturity aside, fact is i've been playing since beta and i'd bet i have played far (understatement) more pvp matches than you. I played TA long before and after gladiator points were introduced. I play pvp less often now because many of the people i used to play with stopped playing or only log on once in a blue moon but i do accept the occasional TA/HA/GVG invitation.

Anyhow. You're right, the bar does look cool and is incredibly fun to play but i disagree that it's flawed just because you have to switch weapons. The reason being you switch to your bow whilst your target is knocked down (during the time you would usually be stalling for a quarter knockdown) then d shot (under IAS) precisely as your target stands up from a kd and switch back to hammer using the escape key. The time it takes to press d shot then switch back to hammer all happens in less that half a second which isn't much to pay for a possible +20 second disable on a 1/4 spell at a critical moment, lets face it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I'm of the school where warriors use their weapons to deal damage, utilizing knockdown and deep wound to score kills in an opportunistic fashion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

In a good battle, you need every inch and second to pump out damage, score kills, and be constantly aggressive.

I couldn't agree with you more on these quotes but to the first quote i would definetly include interrupts aswel

As far as the second quote is concerned, i'd say d shotting patient spirit is nothing less than aggressive and could also be considered as doing "damage".

I posted with the intention of showing people you can quarter rupt with d shot and as a fun alternative hammer warrior idea not with the intention of changing the gvg meta (another one of your assumptions). I'd advise you to try and read more carefully in future before you post a reply and i'm sure you know what they say about assumption?

Have fun, i know i do

Reverend Dr · Apr 10, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcosad

Only way to qknock is to kd, flail, attack, stop attacking, and then hit hammer bash as they get up. You can't fit in the second attack.

Not entirely correct. The QK chain is the first KD, a second hit (usually crushing), then the second KD. Usually this is done by stopping attacking (either moving or using esc) and retiming the next hit. All in all I find this the most useful one to use as it gets one accustomed to the animations and able to QK off of someone else's KD more easily.

It can also be done by waiting to activate skills. During the first part of a regular auto attack, if you activate an attack skill, it resets the animation and attack time. Usually a KD, flail, wait until the hammer swings back (timing issue that just has to be felt) to activate crushing, then bash will QK.

Quote:

he's fast enough to do it without losing any hammer damage.

This is not true. Anyone that has actually ever swapped weapons knows this to be true. While you can continue to move while swapping weapons you cannot attack nor activate skills. There is time spent in swapping to the bow, time spent swapping back to the hammer, and time spent waiting in D-shot's aftercast. That hammer bar is fairly standard bar with d-shot thrown into a utility slot, so its not going to be terrible. It is certainly not the worst gimmick ever seen, but trying to proclaim it as anything other than a gimmick is just terrible.

360° · Apr 11, 2009, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

This is not true. Anyone that has actually ever swapped weapons knows this to be true. While you can continue to move while swapping weapons you cannot attack nor activate skills. There is time spent in swapping to the bow, time spent swapping back to the hammer, and time spent waiting in D-shot's aftercast. That hammer bar is fairly standard bar with d-shot thrown into a utility slot, so its not going to be terrible. It is certainly not the worst gimmick ever seen, but trying to proclaim it as anything other than a gimmick is just terrible.

Well, this isn't entirely true either. No time swapping from hammer to bow. But due to d-shot's aftercast it takes some time to swap back to hammer.

Found out you can qknock perfectly if you take Hunter's Shot with you. After Flail and Crushing, fire Hunter's and then Bash. Not as cool as the d-shot version, but it covers deep wound.

scruffy · Apr 11, 2009, 10:12 AM // 10:12

As a warrior it's not worth bringing a bow skill on a hammer warrior because you simply do not have a large enough attention span to spare the time it takes to make a whole multi-step process out of interupting a skill. Warrior is already hard enough as it is without adding 'weapon swap to dshot and look cool on obs' to the list.