Curse

Lux Aeterna · Mar 21, 2009, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

You seem to be confusing two modes of attacking. Pressuring via KD's and pressuring via DPS. Hammer is not the weapon for DPS.

Hammers hit slower but they also do more damage. The only difference is that flail is now widely used without rush, so if you miss a KD or your target kites you can lose some damage (opposite PR effect)

zling · Mar 21, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

You seem to be confusing two modes of attacking. Pressuring via KD's and pressuring via DPS. Hammer is not the weapon for DPS. Don't make such rash arguments nor assume I would make such a radically stupid statement. It is the fact that the hammer is not utilized for its DPS that I prefer the sundering or elemental.

Make sense?

Also, the degen on the hammer vamp opposed to its +5 heal will actually create more pressure than relieve. Chances are you will not hit every single hit, and you will have off time changing targets. Sit on the guild with a vamp while you aren't blind blurred and the lord isn't protted? Go for it.

wow, more fail from you, yay!
first of all Hammers do have more DPS than Axes and Swords, even after you count the slower swing rate. Axes are preffered for spikes because its spike chain deals more damage, not auto attacks. but Hammers have KD to compenstate for it, and of course the higher base damage.

second of all I heard weapon switching is good

I mean come on, you gotta be kidding here...

Motoko · Mar 21, 2009, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

wow, more fail from you, yay!
first of all Hammers do have more DPS than Axes and Swords, even after you count the slower swing rate. Axes are preffered for spikes because its spike chain deals more damage, not auto attacks. but Hammers have KD to compenstate for it, and of course the higher base damage.

second of all I heard weapon switching is good

I mean come on, you gotta be kidding here...

You are 100% correct and everything you say is absolute truth. I don't know what I thinking when I was disagreeing with you. I guess I should pay more attention in obs to you when you play.

Hopefully some day I can be as good as you.

scruffy · Mar 21, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

wow, more fail from you, yay!
first of all Hammers do have more DPS than Axes and Swords, even after you count the slower swing rate. Axes are preffered for spikes because its spike chain deals more damage, not auto attacks. but Hammers have KD to compenstate for it, and of course the higher base damage.

second of all I heard weapon switching is good

I mean come on, you gotta be kidding here...

hammers do higher spike damage, as well as more dps on stationary targets. when the target kites however, axes do more dps because they have rush and can frenzy whenever they want

zling · Mar 21, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

You are 100% correct and everything you say is absolute truth. I don't know what I thinking when I was disagreeing with you. I guess I should pay more attention in obs to you when you play.

Hopefully some day I can be as good as you.

now you're being cynical, awsome! I dont mind disagreements, I do mind senseless arguements though

but oh well, maybe it's just me

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 21, 2009, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

You are 100% correct and everything you say is absolute truth. I don't know what I thinking when I was disagreeing with you. I guess I should pay more attention in obs to you when you play.

Hopefully some day I can be as good as you.

Last time I obs'd [Nion], you were flagging, not on warrior ^^.

Back on topic:

I actually bought a Furious hammer haft to try. After 3-4 hours with it, I can honestly say it's the worst mod to use. It's a 10% proc and not to mention, hammers are slow hitting so that makes it even worst. I'd rather use my Furious spear than a Furious hammer.

As for the Sundering vs Vampiric discussion, I prefer Vampiric in RA/TA and such since it's more damage which means more kills especially when you don't have a monk to rely on.

Motoko · Mar 21, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Last time I obs'd [Nion], you were flagging, not on warrior ^^.

I guess since I was only flagging in Nion, that must be the only thing I can play. Thank god I've practiced so much on it the past 4 weeks people think its the only thing I can play!

Whenitrainsitpours · Mar 21, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I guess since I was only flagging in Nion, that must be the only thing I can play. Thank god I've practiced so much on it the past 4 weeks people think its the only thing I can play!

Or maybe you can stop taking the game seriously? However, you said something about being obs'd when you just admitted you've flagged for the last month. So, how do you obs a warrior that's not playing on a warrior...if you understand what I'm saying.

Motoko · Mar 22, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whenitrainsitpours

Or maybe you can stop taking the game seriously? However, you said something about being obs'd when you just admitted you've flagged for the last month. So, how do you obs a warrior that's not playing on a warrior...if you understand what I'm saying.

I'm so sorry! Everything I say is so serious! You caught me!

Apok Omen · Mar 22, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I'm so sorry! Everything I say is so serious! You caught me!

I enjoy the fact that you are choosing to be sarcastic in a thread that is asking for meaningful information. If you want to be a pathetic little shitter who gets defensive at the smallest bit of criticism instead of countering with a valid arguement, then go to the other forum you aren't wanted in: QQ forums.

However, if you want to actually partake in an intellegent debate, provide your personal experiences as a Warrior and give some useful advice.

jaximus · Mar 22, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

i play hammer war for my guild in gvg. from what ive noticed (my wep sets go sunder/ele/vamp/furious spear) i prefer sunder over vamp. i dont like my targets knowing what type of damage im dealing (part that most of you are ignoring) so the little yellow icon on their screen saying life steal is a dead give away that im using blunt. good players will see, 'oh look vamp, neato... /bluntshield.' along the lines of that argument though, i prefer elemental best (so long as its a different element than your other teammates) because most people will see hammer and go blunt automatically. this way i bypass +10 armor. and because i play d blow instead of prot strike, i want to maximize the damage i can do while being annoying with q-knocks and q-ints.

so lets consider that a target with 60 al takes 100% damage(this example uses a blunt hammer). if they req a 16 al shield, they take ~77% damage, if they dont req it, they take ~88%, but on that same idea, if they have +10v blunt (notably for the life steal) a req'd shield makes them take ~64% while an unreq'd shield with +10v blunt gives them ~71% an elemental hammer would make them take ~77%(req'd with +10v blunt) and ~88%(unreq'd v blunt). ideally though, you want to catch them on a casting set so the shield isnt in your way.

with that though, you must consider that most monks run disciples(+15 while conditioned) so you want to apply your deep wound as close to the kill as you can. also +5ar weps. with this in mind, the higher you go up the armor scale, the more advantageous vamp becomes, because the bonuses you do get from different damage types becomes less while the -5 from vamp looks better and better. again though, you need to consider its 'elemental vs warriors' because of the +20 v phsyicals and the tendency to be in frenzy and to capitalize on the double damage, you want to bypass as much armor as possible.

there is no 'best damage type' because its all situational. there is a reason that the damage modifiers havent changed, they are all balanced. they are all equally good and excel in certain situations. hopefully that was helpful.

zling · Mar 22, 2009, 08:28 PM // 20:28

definatly helpful, but I noticed you didn't say 1 word in favour of Sundering even though it's your first weapon set. inorder to hide your damage you switch between Elemental and Vampiric, what exactly is the Sundering set for?

jaximus · Mar 22, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

lol silly me. well i prefer sunder over vamp because i call offspikes or secondary spikes. therefore i can be a bit more opportunistic in my calls. i tend to call mainly when i catch a caster with a casting set out, so the armor isnt so high. also there tends to be a lot of cracked armor flying around to help remedy this. therefore i find more benefit from the sunder. plus my only cancel for flail is enraging, so i really hate getting 'flail-locked' so i tend to make sure i have a clean kd before i flail. with the slower swing rate or getting 'flail-locked' the vamp tends to be more annoying than it is helpful. mostly though i tend to stay on the elemental mod for the damage hiding. (keep in mind though, this is my mentality for running magehunter/dev hammer in gvg where hammer pressure is good, but youre really there for the kd)

aside from the game fundamentals and mechanics, i tend to view the hammers job to be get the crucial kds and those omgwtf big hits when you crit+sunder on crushing. also, ive always been a bit biased against vamp cuz i think its dirty : (

it may help to watch some observer mode matches where they are running hammer. a lot of time youll see the hammer camping a vamp, even through warriors, but that is usually once your team figures out if they have sentinel insignias or not. a great hammer warrior, although hard to obs (because his character is pvp only so all of his hammers have the same skin) is Jatt Kittenstomper from Rebel Rising[rawr]. youll rarely if ever seem him on a vamp.

good luck and i hope that helps

I Angra I · Mar 23, 2009, 07:38 AM // 07:38

I don't get this thread.

What else is there to use even besides the mods listed in the OP. There's nothing really. S:

So uh thread over?

Also on the vamp vs sundering on hammer discussion, who cares, its like a 10 damage max difference, just don't be bad at the game and you can kill with either. Or just weapon swap between them depending on what you are going for at the time.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 23, 2009, 07:41 AM // 07:41

So basically you want to use vamp until you see a monk switch shields, then go to your shocking ?

Also I'd love to hear some ways to avoid flail lock, it's really a pain but you get good at knowing when you'll be able to fight mainly stationary targets for 12 seconds or so / get good at pre-kite bull's strike.

Motoko · Mar 23, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

I enjoy the fact that you are choosing to be sarcastic in a thread that is asking for meaningful information. If you want to be a pathetic little shitter who gets defensive at the smallest bit of criticism instead of countering with a valid arguement, then go to the other forum you aren't wanted in: QQ forums.

However, if you want to actually partake in an intellegent debate, provide your personal experiences as a Warrior and give some useful advice.

I don't mind of an "intelligent debate" at all. These sorts of debates are only useful when people are actually willing to listen to your side as well as you listening to theirs. This obviously isn't the case and the "debate" turns into a shouting match of repeated opinions till one side just doesn't care anymore because the opposing party is not listening and is not a credible source.

I will type personal experience(s) tomorow since I am too tired to do it right now.

Stick to Guru buddy, I'm sure they are nice enough to provide the KY jelly for the anal abuse you would take over at QQ.

Seraphim of Chaos · Mar 23, 2009, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

I don't mind of an "intelligent debate" at all. These sorts of debates are only useful when people are actually willing to listen to your side as well as you listening to theirs. This obviously isn't the case and the "debate" turns into a shouting match of repeated opinions till one side just doesn't care anymore because the opposing party is not listening and is not a credible source.

I will type personal experience(s) tomorow since I am too tired to do it right now.

Stick to Guru buddy, I'm sure they are nice enough to provide the KY jelly for the anal abuse you would take over at QQ.

because the internet is so abusive

jaximus · Mar 23, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

So basically you want to use vamp until you see a monk switch shields, then go to your shocking ?

Also I'd love to hear some ways to avoid flail lock, it's really a pain but you get good at knowing when you'll be able to fight mainly stationary targets for 12 seconds or so / get good at pre-kite bull's strike.

pretty much you hit the nail on the head with that first bit, although i dunno so much about shocking, elemental yes though. you want to use a elemental mod that is not the same as any damage on your team. so you you have a b surge/mind shock ele, you want to for sure not use shocking, with the mind blast/distortion eles around, fire damage is sort of out of the question, plus your runner may back ice/tenais prison, so you dont want fire. also if you can, try to use a different element than your axe warrior, and if at all possible carry multiple hammers with assorte ele mods to keep the damage different.

on the topic of flail-lock, one thing you can do prior to a match even. i, as well as many other hammer warriors run 14 str(13hammer) for +4 from enraging(+1 on hit so net of +5) this helps you manage adrenaline better so you dont need to rely on flail(14s @14str) to build adren quickly.

at the start of a match, time your enraging, (14s @14str) to speed boost you into battle and be near ending when you get within range. quickly get a spear attack in (furious spear) so you get your 5 adren to start and by doing this, you have enraging nearly recharged already. by managing your stances and thinking ahead a bit, you can have enraging ready to 'cancel' flail if you need to.

the best way to avoid flail-lock though, is to concentrate on 'quarter-stepping' around your target to get between them and where they want to be. this way, you can ensure you get the kd before you flail. when you get up to a target and go to use magesmash/dev, you want to make sure they are kd'd. dont run up, hit your kd->flail->crushing, that gets you caught in flail. you want to ensure the knock, then position yourself, then flail, then crushing, bash on standup, and bulls as they try to move away. if you have stonefist(which you should) kd's are 3 seconds so with 2 successful knocks thats 6 seconds of downtime with ~5 seconds of flail. if you are able to catch bulls as they try to flee, thats another 3 seconds.

with that said, dont be afraid of flail, it has very good synergy with a hammer with kds. the speed redux doesnt hurt if they are knocked and the 33% ias hurts them real bad.

if you do manage to get stuck in flail and your priority target gets away, c-space on the nearest target and begin building again. if noones near you, swap to the spear and let it fly, but dont rely on the spear, remember hammer is your friend, spear is theirs. if you are spending too much time spearing, you arent giving the other teams monks any real pressure and without the need to prot to prevent a kd, their energy will be ready for you. spearing if youre stuck with noone by you is okay.

using enraging to cancel... just be careful here. enraging isnt meant for a cancel, its meant for a quick adrenal gain as well as an on demand speed boost for splits/flags. you want to avoid as best you can using enraging when you have full adrenaline, its highly wasteful. best advice here is, if you get stuck in flail, use bash if its charged and then if you have to cancel flail with enraging, then you get the benefit of the +adrenaline.

scruffy · Mar 23, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

if the enemy is using shields that all look the same you wont be able to do that, not to mention how will you know which shield is which without wasting a significant amount of your time. there is an argument for using elemental weapons all game except for on rangers depending on what type of shields you think the enemy will run(for example if youre facing a good team and youre running double hammer/shatterstone split they will probably either have a cold shield out or a blunt shield out at all times so you would want to take a ebon or fire hammer to bypass the armor.

not getting stuck running around in flail has a lot 2 do with how good you are at using enraging charge and bulls strike and less to do with quarterstepping

Motoko · Mar 23, 2009, 09:11 PM // 21:11

In all honesty from my experiences as warrior, the vamp +3/+5 has never made a difference. Sure you can use arguments that its armor negating goes through prots... blah blah blah. That is all correct and totally valid arguments.

The thing with any weapon is having a chance to do 'X' amount of damage. I always viewed the "20% sundering might never trigger" argument kind of void. In all honesty, every weapon has a chance to do a specific amount of damage.

Lets take the axe for example. You have a 6-28 damage range and a chance to do anything in those boundaries. It is possible for you to do only the 6 damage the entire time. Highly unlikely, but possible. It goes the same with sundering, it is possible for it not to trigger but that is highly unlikely.

It is personal preference, yes the vamp is unconditional and I could understand people wanting to stick with that. If everyone tells you to run vamp, go for it, follow the masses. I personally prefer the ability to chance some good DPS on a well chosen target that would cause the prot monk to burn 10 prots. There are some cases that with a vamp, a target has no chance whatsoever of dying. But with the sundering there always is that possiblity.

Not to mention the numerous pm's I have recieved with people asking me if I run a major axe...

But it does boil down to how well you can warrior. And if you are looking for some advice of that magnitude, I'll hook you up with a little link that has been put out from time to time.

http://www.teamquitter.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3484