Curse

God_Hand · Apr 13, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

Players, here's an amazing idea spread your hexes around.
Faced a VOR mesmer the other day while playing PnH, guess what he did?
VoR on one player, empathy on the melee, backfire on me and wastrel's at random times. PnH is not a magic bullet by any means.

This.

12chars

Neo-LD · Apr 13, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Build wars is a bitch aint it.

Hundbert · Apr 13, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

The mindblast ele with distortion that everyone is running is from ra. It may or may not be nerfed next update.

Jeydra · Apr 13, 2009, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

Players heres an amazing idea spread your hexes around.
Faced a VOR mez the other day while playing pnh guess what he did?
Vor on one player, empathy on the meele, backfire on me and wasterls at random times. Pnh is not a magic bullet by any means.

You do realize that PnH players, since they do not have strong bar push, do carry Cure Hex right? Also realize to win with no Monk against Monk, you need to concentrate damage as fast as possible to force a quick res, or you will lose to pressure. If you are forced to spread VoR and Backfire around you will lose that concentrated damage.

Spreading your hexes around is great, but it isn't a magic bullet by any means either. A single PnH Monk can keep up with hexes coming from two directions. It's overpowered. I long for a nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

A good warrior should be able to murder a pnh monk in RA. The monk simply doesn't have the heals to keep up with physical pressure.

Not until the Warrior gets himself loaded with antimelee hexes that Holy Veil can't keep up with (or sometimes Holy Veil + Cure Hex).

Xyon the Greatest · Apr 13, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Really, I guess against necros and mesmers, PnH monks are overpowered, but when it comes to a melee team in RA (Which is about 70% of the teams) PnH builds usually have one good heal, patient spirit.

What I am saying is, a good warrior could easily kill a PnH monk.

minor · Apr 14, 2009, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Also realize to win with no Monk against Monk,

LOL so your argument is a team with a a monk beats a team with no monk so the monks elite is overpowered?
Anyone noticed that there are still a lot of woh monks running around?
wonder why that is?

HotPocket · Apr 14, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

Deal with it.

Seriously, PvP in Guild Wars has always been balanced around GvG exclusively. The fact that RA wasn't complete crap back in Prophecies according to you (I'd argue it's always been crap) was just a fluke.

Why were stances nerfed then?

HotPocket · Apr 14, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You do realize that PnH players, since they do not have strong bar push, do carry Cure Hex right? Also realize to win with no Monk against Monk, you need to concentrate damage as fast as possible to force a quick res, or you will lose to pressure. If you are forced to spread VoR and Backfire around you will lose that concentrated damage.

Spreading your hexes around is great, but it isn't a magic bullet by any means either. A single PnH Monk can keep up with hexes coming from two directions. It's overpowered. I long for a nerf.

Not until the Warrior gets himself loaded with antimelee hexes that Holy Veil can't keep up with (or sometimes Holy Veil + Cure Hex).

That's assuming you get both a necro AND a monk on the same team. He's right, PnH is great at removing conditions (like DW during spikes), but a good war will ALWAYS out-pressure a good monk... well, maybe not always. Sometimes the rest of your team is retarded (but not much you can do about that)

Wish Swiftdeath · Apr 14, 2009, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotPocket

Why were stances nerfed then?

Stances were used alot in GvG too

Neo-LD · Apr 14, 2009, 04:54 AM // 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Also realize to win with no Monk against Monk, you need to concentrate damage as fast as possible to force a quick res, or you will lose to pressure. If you are forced to spread VoR and Backfire around you will lose that concentrated damage.

Concentrating your damage is pretty much the worst thing you could possibly do against a monk team in RA.

Fate Crusher · Apr 14, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Concentrating your damage is pretty much the worst thing you could possibly do against a monk team in RA.

Agreed.

Most monks in RA are red bar monks, and since they don't entirely anticipate attacks, it's advised to spread the damage out and nullify any threats to your own team, Sin/Ele/Mes/Necro.

stances nerfed for RA? as someone has already mentioned, it was widely used in GvG.

like i said before, the skill ballances are designed to shift the 8v8 Meta (the popular builds), and make that more ballanced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant Of Kali

No GvG. Actually, most skills are not balanced for GvG at all but for PvE and arenas. I thought that's pretty obvious.

Huh? for someone who's "played for too long", you have a funny look at the game.
why would they BALLANCE skills for PvE when you're playing against AI that are designed to die? PvE creatures have at best 4 skills... why on earth would they BALLANCE something that's already designed to die?

TheOrangeFalcon · Apr 14, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Huh? for someone who's "played for too long", you have a funny look at the game.
why would they BALLANCE skills for PvE when you're playing against AI that are designed to die? PvE creatures have at best 4 skills... why on earth would they BALLANCE something that's already designed to die?

You could always go with, why would a game called GUILD WARS not be balanced around GvG?

I agree that PaH has it's pros and cons, but I'd like to see a slight nerf, or a buff to say [Withdraw hexes] to compete with it or other hex removal elites.

urania · Apr 14, 2009, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

A good warrior should be able to murder a pnh monk in RA. The monk simply doesn't have the heals to keep up with physical pressure.

a full shield armor monk with balanced stance/bonnis and breeze wont die that easily, esp not to 1 warr.

i reckon its more of a problem to keep defenseless softies alive than urself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

You do realize that PnH players, since they do not have strong bar push, do carry Cure Hex right? Also realize to win with no Monk against Monk, you need to concentrate damage as fast as possible to force a quick res, or you will lose to pressure. If you are forced to spread VoR and Backfire around you will lose that concentrated damage.

erm, if u wanna beat a team with (decent) monk, u have to overwhelm them with damage (on multiple characters) as well as have some sort of shutdown so the monkie cant just red bar up all the time. concentrating ur damage is a bad idea.
however, it often does work vs a pnh, esp if ur damage doesnt rely on cond spam and hexes, obviously. but vs a woh, spreading damage and landing in some shutdown at cruical moments is the key to win. with or without monk. ofc, considering ur team has some self heals and is made of good players.

Jeydra · Apr 14, 2009, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

LOL so your argument is a team with a a monk beats a team with no monk so the monks elite is overpowered?
Anyone noticed that there are still a lot of woh monks running around?
wonder why that is?

Read what I said. I said to kill a team with a Monk when you don't have one yourself you have to concentrate damage, not spread it. PnH > concentrated hexing.

What's more, some hexes do nothing against certain classes, eg. Backfire is worthless against Warriors, Empathy useless against Elementalists. If you're up against 1 Ranger 2 Warriors 1 Monk, who else do you put Backfire on? But with only one target (= enforced concentrated hexing) PnH > you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

Concentrating your damage is pretty much the worst thing you could possibly do against a monk team in RA.

You don't have a choice. With no Monk against Monk, you can have anything up to 30 seconds before one of your team dies, depending on how good the other team is. You need to deal as much damage as possible as quickly as possible, and if you have to concentrate damage into prots to do that so be it. Of course if you're completely countered (eg. SoD vs. Warrior, Spirit Bond vs. Elementalist) then you have to switch targets, but against stuff like Shielding Hands and Reversal of Fortune and maybe even Guardian you hit through.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotPocket

That's assuming you get both a necro AND a monk on the same team. He's right, PnH is great at removing conditions (like DW during spikes), but a good war will ALWAYS out-pressure a good monk... well, maybe not always. Sometimes the rest of your team is retarded (but not much you can do about that)

Single Warrior will not outpressure a good Monk. If you can prove otherwise, show me ingame - message me on my IGN.

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

erm, if u wanna beat a team with (decent) monk, u have to overwhelm them with damage (on multiple characters) as well as have some sort of shutdown so the monkie cant just red bar up all the time. concentrating ur damage is a bad idea.
however, it often does work vs a pnh, esp if ur damage doesnt rely on cond spam and hexes, obviously. but vs a woh, spreading damage and landing in some shutdown at cruical moments is the key to win. with or without monk. ofc, considering ur team has some self heals and is made of good players.

Yes - and attacking a Monk is shutdown, because of 1) KDs 2) it forces him to concentrate on himself, which could mean less prots on allies if not everyone is focused on him so someone can get a spike through.

When you concentrate damage I don't mean you concentrate on only one character, but on a few select characters - eg. you're against a team with Mesmer, Elementalist, Monk and Warrior. You ignore the Warrior as much as you can. Elementalist is spamming Flare with Aura of Restoration (= self-heal, not to mention it's not a dangerous build), you don't damage him either. You concentrate damage onto the remaining two characters, not necessarily one.

Anyway @ the argument that there're no skills nerfed for RA / TA, there have been actually, just not a lot of them. WoD is one example - largely used only in TA. Another is Signet of Midnight. But there aren't many, yeah.

kedde · Apr 14, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

If those skills actually had a use in gvg, that would have been taken into account before arenas.

Ben-A-BoO · Apr 14, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

A good warrior should be able to murder a pnh monk in RA. The monk simply doesn't have the heals to keep up with physical pressure.

Quoted for Truth.

Yes PnH is godly against hexes but has horrible results in countering melee pressure.

WoH is after Res Sig THE second best skill in the arena's and PnH just a shadow of it.

Catchphrase · Apr 14, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quick question to you guys, how well does [Aura of Faith] fare against [Life Sheath]?

Snow Bunny · Apr 14, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Single Warrior will not outpressure a good Monk. If you can prove otherwise, show me ingame - message me on my IGN.

A good warrior with correctly timed bstrikes and shocks will kill a monk.

jaximus · Apr 14, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

the talk about warriors being able to beat a pnh monk with ease is quite true. i myself roll a hammer warrior in ra and laugh when i see a pnh, one knocklock chain and the pressure from my teammates has the monk playing catchup the whole match and he soon crumbles. most of the time a pnh needs to cast patient spirit nearly on recharge, so a 3.2.1 d-shot from a ranger is about enough to win the match right there.

as for jeydras comments on backfire being useless on warriors and empathy being useless on eles, sorta true, but have you realized how many w/mos with breeze there are? and how eles wand a lot of the time. there are loads of bad players in ra, so sometimes a 'unorthodox' hex at just the right time can make that wammo explode or cause that wanding ele to give the monk unneeded pressure. in some cases with monks with bonettis, that empathy on him can cause him to 1. not have adren for bonettis when he needs it 2. use pnh to clean empathy off of a monk? 3. wand through it and hope to keep up with the damage.

as for damage concentration or not, generally a ranger that tabs with apply poison is enough pressure to win a match. so yeah its nice to pile up damage on one target every now and then to draw out some healing/prots, but generally i stay away from whatever my teammates are attacking unless it will get a kill.

urania · Apr 14, 2009, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

A good warrior with correctly timed bstrikes and shocks will kill a monk.

balanced stance <3

and during those 15 seconds im sure one can easily build up bonnis to compensate for balanced stance's downtime.