Curse

housecalls · Feb 23, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Had a ball last night when we ran 4 RoJer monks. This is what i ran and the others ran similar.
[ray of judgment][spear of light][bane signet][castigation signet][guardian][reversal of damage][mending touch][dash]

Maxxed out in Prot and Smiting

Very easy to take on most melees and clear any shrines solo. I had the most trouble with a few VoR mesmers but otherwise we won very easily all matches, about 7 or 8 in total i think. We didnt even co ordinate that well with sticking together.

EDIT for MasterSasori: You should try it

and post your experiences

tmakinen · Feb 23, 2009, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Not to discourage you or anything, but builds are pretty coincidental regarding the win/loss ratio in AB. First, your team is only 33% of your side, and your team efficiency is maybe 10% about the build and 90% about tactics and strategy. Second, by far the most important factor explaining the win/loss ratio is the map. You should have about 80% win rate at defending deep even if you run empty skill bars, and somehow I doubt that you pulled a flawless run at attacking deep

About the build in question, a monk without hex management?

kazi_saki · Feb 23, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

This is what I run when i play with other smiter monks and it works out pretty well:

[ray of judgment][reversal of damage][smite condition][signet of rage][bane signet][smite hex][castigation signet][bonetti's defense]

works fine and yes, I did reach like 6 wins before quitting ab. smite monk teams really do steam-roll the shrines and some groups

housecalls · Feb 23, 2009, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Like i said VoR Mes were annoying but not deadly as some of the team ran[smite hex] variations.

Its hard to cast hexes when there are multiple pillars of light shining down on you

One other swapped out RoD for RoF basically a similar build.

Like i said lots of fun, lots of armour ignoring dmg and never had energy problems.

MasterSasori · Feb 24, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

RoJ monks are all the rage in JQ/FA/AB right now and its common knowledge. What is your point?

housecalls · Feb 24, 2009, 02:15 AM // 02:15

I was sharing something fun with the wider community, i didnt realise that these forums were only for whinging and "Help Me" posts.

MasterSasori · Feb 24, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

I was sharing something fun with the wider community, i didnt realise that these forums were only for whinging and "Help Me" posts.

Then ty for your participation. Maybe add some thoughts in with your build to invoke some thoughtful discussion.

housecalls · Feb 24, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Edited Original post

Jeydra · Feb 26, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Not to discourage you or anything, but builds are pretty coincidental regarding the win/loss ratio in AB. First, your team is only 33% of your side, and your team efficiency is maybe 10% about the build and 90% about tactics and strategy. Second, by far the most important factor explaining the win/loss ratio is the map. You should have about 80% win rate at defending deep even if you run empty skill bars, and somehow I doubt that you pulled a flawless run at attacking deep

About the build in question, a monk without hex management?

Pretty much agreed, though of course I'll say that using good builds makes a big difference, and you can go from 80% win rate to 100% win rate ... and I'll add that I have pulled a 6-win flawless run on Kaanai (playing on Kurzick side) before I had to stop, that was epic - had 1 Monk 3x Fire Elementalists in a powercapping strategy.

Anyway @ this build in particular, I'm not impressed. With 3 Divine Favour, you've got no heals, and you are going to die against any concerted offense. I highly doubt you can solo all shrines as well - maybe you can, but how long do you take? Taking down a shrine's NPCs in 30 seconds does not count as solo'ing it ...

Once I tried running two Monks + 1 War + 1 Derv in AB, we maintained Strength of Honor on both melee and then had RoJ + Blessed Light for elites. Didn't work. Once we got into fights, our energy died and the team wiped. I doubt having 4 Smiting Monks will be the any different.

housecalls · Feb 27, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Its a little sad that people are willing to flame things without trying them

I would say that solo capping all shrines in including Ele takes approx less than10 secs each. This is mainly due to the fact that the AI doesnt move out of ROJ. Much much quicker if there are more than one of you.

Dont need healing against shrines as they die so quickly and any hexes run out before you enter combat again.

Against players, the majority of people use a condition or two and mending touch combined with guardian and the negating effect of Rev of dmg allows you to win easily. as stated before Mes is the biggest threat.
With this build i can stand on the warrior shrine and "tank" and kill all 3 warriors quite easily.

When entering a fray its vital to maitain RoD as much as possible and i have about 35ish energy and no problems.

Please try this before knocking it.

moriz · Feb 27, 2009, 03:36 AM // 03:36

i don't think anyone doubt this build works, but this build isn't "yours".

also, people around here generally have a fair bit of experience. a lot of us can tell how well a "new" build will perform with regards to what's already available by just looking at it.

and with that same experience, i can tell you that your build is basically a slightly modified RoJ monk that's basically everywhere these days, so it's really nothing special.

housecalls · Feb 27, 2009, 04:06 AM // 04:06

I never claimed it was mine only one i ran and enoyed.

I believe the claim was made in regards to whether it worked well or not, how quickly it capped shrines and the ability to stay alive. I was merely defending its capabilities which i am entitled to do.

tmakinen · Feb 27, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

I was merely defending its capabilities

And therein lies the rub. AB builds that 'are fun and work' are a dime a dozen and it would be all too easy to inundate the entire forum with hundreds of posts stating "I ran <insert random build> and it was fun. You should try it, too."

There's nothing to be defended. It's a build, unique like a snowflake and all the millions of others of its kind. Builds don't matter (to a large extent). Defending it is as pointless as if you tried to convince others that you can only truly enjoy AB if you dye your armor pink.

Jeydra · Feb 28, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

Its a little sad that people are willing to flame things without trying them

I would say that solo capping all shrines in including Ele takes approx less than10 secs each. This is mainly due to the fact that the AI doesnt move out of ROJ. Much much quicker if there are more than one of you.

Dont need healing against shrines as they die so quickly and any hexes run out before you enter combat again.

Against players, the majority of people use a condition or two and mending touch combined with guardian and the negating effect of Rev of dmg allows you to win easily. as stated before Mes is the biggest threat.
With this build i can stand on the warrior shrine and "tank" and kill all 3 warriors quite easily.

When entering a fray its vital to maitain RoD as much as possible and i have about 35ish energy and no problems.

Please try this before knocking it.

I'll give that I haven't tried the build, but no I don't believe you. Here's why:

Mending Touch heals like 100 health if you have two conditions to remove. Definitely not always the case, and there are plenty of builds out there who still deal too much damage. I bet I can solo you with, say, an assacaster with little difficulty even though I have conditions, because you simply do not have enough heal. Look at it this way. Mending Touch is 100 heal @ 6s cooldown and assuming 2 conditions. WoH is 122 heal + Divine Favour @ 3s cooldown, yet most Monks do not run a single WoH, instead adding skills like Patient Spirit and Signet of Rejuv. Why?

The simple fact I can see is, if someone is serious about killing you, you are going to die. You've got so little to defend yourself with. Guardian might be a strong prot, but it doesn't make you invulnerable. Mending Touch is a great skill, but it doesn't heal enough. Reversal of Damage is well and good, but you've got no Divine Favour and it still has 3s cooldown. Your only hope is to kill them before they kill you, yet you've got little damage, they might have self-heal, and what are you going to do if they have a Monk?

I'm sure the build works - from first looks, it's not as bad as some of the builds I've seen. But if you claim it's a good build ... you'll need to convince me.

Super Igor · Feb 28, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

that build is pretty horrible :x

housecalls · Feb 28, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

The simple fact I can see is, if someone is serious about killing you, you are going to die. <--- same can be said for any build

Again i never said it was unstoppable

only that you can solo any shrine to cap it and you definately can tank and take the warrior shrine solo.
*shrugs*
Not fussed if people are nay sayers but i hope some people give it a go and have fun with the results.

Lux Aeterna · Mar 01, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Lol whenever I find smiters in AB I ask them if they can run a heal/ prot build because we already have an ele to nuke shrines and need a healer... then they invariably say "no" and just leave. If I try to explain that RoJ is simply not needed in AB, they call me a noob, mute me, and keep insulting me for a while after adding me to ignore.

Jeez. Every time I find RoJ monks on the other side we end up just steamrolling their team in a second.

Also they tend to just log out.

Jeydra · Mar 01, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by housecalls

The simple fact I can see is, if someone is serious about killing you, you are going to die. <--- same can be said for any build

For single player, yes, since damage is so much superior to self-heals the only build that won't die to any kind of damage is an out-and-out Monk (I've not seen a bar that can kill a Monk solo).

But that's not the point. Look again at the bar you propose. It has little heal, and yet you intend to run 4 of those Smiters. What's the point? The strength of RoJ is, as you undoubtedly know, clearing NPCs. The skill is not of much use at killing players, unless you have some kind of long knockdown on another character. This brings your bar into direct conflict with another: the all-out shrine capper.

Now the purpose of a shrine capper can be listed as:

1. (By far the most important) to cap shrines as fast as possible.
2. To be of at least some use if a teamfight breaks out (if possible).

I'm doubtful you can match an Elementalist for point #1. If you think you can ... then I'd ask you to post screenshots (the main shrines concerned would be the double Monk shrines, the Warrior shrine and the Elementalist shrine. I'll compare them with the times I can achieve on my Elementalist). For #2, it's debatable. When you need to roll the other team ASAP without needing the defense yourself, the Elementalist is probably superior; when you risk getting wiped yourself in an intense fight that could go either way then the Monk probably wins. But still the more important thing is #1, and if an Elementalist outcaps you I see no reason to use a RoJ Monk.

And then there's the teambuild. 4x solocappers doesn't work. You have to split all over the map because you can't fight any other team 4v4 (that includes bad AB teams with no Monk). But there tend not to be 4 shrines to cap, and even if there are, there's only one of you and the speed at which you take shrines is atrocious. You can't even use NPCs, because there will be four cappers competing for two NPC shrines (assuming Etnaran / Grenz).

Therefore I conclude a superior build is something along the lines of: Monk (WoH / ZB), Elementalist (pure capping power), 2x damage (eg. Primal Rage, Melshot). When you have this kind of teambuild I question the point of using a RoJ Monk instead of the Elementalist. Unless you can show the Monk is faster at clearing shrines, I'm inclined to stick to the Elementalist.

PS: If someone is serious about killing the Elementalist in above build, the Elementalist is going to die as well - until his teammates show up to save him. With 4x RoJ Monks, there's nobody to save you.

housecalls · Mar 02, 2009, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Lol i generally run a WOH/hybrid build but its fun to experiment.

You mentioned use when running into players, have you ever been on the recieving end of 4 Bane sig and 4 castigations plus a RoJ or too at very short notice??? That is a lot of armour ignoring damage. Given that an opposing monk should save you but this is AB.........Melees arent really a concern when you have Bane Sig, Guardian...lol... even Spear of light freaks some people out specially when followed by bane sig.

Im not saying this RoJ build is the ultimate build but i am saying its fun to play......have you even seen 4 RoJ on one target? The beam of light is spectacular

though a little hard to remain un noticed.

Hanging Man · Mar 02, 2009, 11:38 AM // 11:38

heres a good RoJ build

[skill] Ray of Judgment[/skill] insert a couple random smite skills and whatever else you want

plz this skill has been beaten to death
we get it, roj is good now
huzzahs for smite monks all around