Curse

elektra_lucia · Dec 21, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Because fame goes up exponentially and it makes getting rank13 really hard. I also prefer to play with friends, not random people. Random people that beg to play with me want to do it to get fame, which isn't a nice way to form a friendship either.

As for GVG. I would agree, if guild wasn't in the top 100 but when it is I really wouldn't want to ruin rank. Unless of course it would be with a smurf guild but I can't do that because then it'd seem unfair for the noobs to face good people right?

. Your argument is completely invalid which ever way you look at it.

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As far as PvP goes I only GvG

Then you don't understand this topic so I'd be grateful if you can keep your ignorance to yourself rather than try to inflict it upon others. Sure I may feel crazy sometimes and just play with idiots for fun but really the only exception is when you see a talented player.

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because playing with nubs is always more fun than sitting in town spamming.

Sometimes I would find it more fun masturbating with a cheese grater than playing with nubs. Sometimes not.

Keithark · Dec 21, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Because fame goes up exponentially and it makes getting rank13 really hard. I also prefer to play with friends, not random people. Random people that beg to play with me want to do it to get fame, which isn't a nice way to form a friendship either.

As for GVG. I would agree, if guild wasn't in the top 100 but when it is I really wouldn't want to ruin rank. Unless of course it would be with a smurf guild but I can't do that because then it'd seem unfair for the noobs to face good people right?

. Your argument is completely invalid which ever way you look at it.

Then you don't understand this topic so I'd be grateful if you can keep your ignorance to yourself rather than try to inflict it upon others. Sure I may feel crazy sometimes and just play with idiots for fun but really the only exception is when you see a talented player.

Sometimes I would find it more fun masturbating with a cheese grater than playing with nubs. Sometimes not.

Well what I have said you have had no valid argument against. I was content that to any intelligent person I had made my point which is a valid one. (obviously you are not an intelligent person) But since it would make an arse like you happy for me to stop posting in here I guess I will have to continue. If you happen to phone a friend and get help comming up with a valid reason why there could not be some sort of different town or whatever to let people say r0-r3 only, another for r4-r6, and so on play against like opponents then I will be happy to agree with you and move on. But as it stands I see no rational argument against having it seperate.

elektra_lucia · Dec 21, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Generally higher rank people are better than lower rank. When you make the battles harder and harder (which would be the result when you match ranks) getting higher rank would be extremely hard. Sure, the 180 fame for rank3 isn't much, but the 11k or so I want is.

The system is already made such that the better (unless skips) teams generally move onto further maps and the worse teams don't. So as you see, higher rank GENERALLY enter HoH more, generally gain more fame but they need much more fame for their next rank anyway.

As for my intelligence, my I.Q. is 146 (don't quote me your 200 I.Q. from some foul internet I.Q. test site please). So anything that may seem obvious to you is merely a twisted perception of reality.

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I was content that to any intelligent person I had made my point which is a valid one.

This is some what like the low rank players who believe they are right when they are wrong.

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But since it would make an arse like you happy for me to stop posting in here I guess I will have to continue.

You can look up my previous posts and you will see I write a lot. I will literally post for ages, I enjoy posting. If I made it sound any other way it was on purpose.

Now for some things you might want to consider looking up (sorry that you weren't intelligent enough to figure it out):

http://dictionary.reference.com/brow...e%20psychology
http://www.reference.com/search?db=w...aw+man+fallacy

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If you happen to phone a friend

My imaginary friend says how dead HA is. She also says it would make the PVP side of the game more empty than it already is. She is also not as high rank as me so we wouldn't get to play with each other.

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Well what I have said you have had no valid argument against.

As you see, I enjoy posting but I could completely destroy your argument in one line: You had no valid argument against my original post (I'm the person who made the thread) as it wasn't on topic.

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But as it stands I see no rational argument against having it seperate.

I made the thread, I see no argument invalidating it. It wasn't my job to invalidate yours.

Mr Mc Spleen · Dec 21, 2007, 08:13 PM // 20:13

As a lowly rank 1 with 27 fame I can relate to this thread in alot of ways.

1. The fact that i'm a rank one and the fact that the only good team builds out there are really balanced teams and spike teams dosnt allow me to play on a good, fun team.

2. So far the only way i have been able to get fame is to do the dreaded IWAY which has the most nubs in it that I have ever seen.

3. There is only one way to improve in HA and that is to be in a good team but the fact that I am not a R3+ smashes that dream into the ground

4. We were all nubs once weren't we?

Kyp Jade · Dec 21, 2007, 08:25 PM // 20:25

@ Mr MC Spleen, you will soon find, when your r3, that the only way to be in a good team is to be r6, but then, when your r6, the only way to be in a good team is to be r9, but then, when your r9, youll wonder where the hell the good teams are.

Good teams that run good builds are NOT pug friendly, they might admit a pug or two when they are almost full, but really the good builds require coordination that is outside the grasp of pug teams.

No matter your rank or skill level, the BEST and FASTEST way to improve skill and rank up is to play with friends consistantly, so imo start working on finding some friends you can HA with a few days a week for a few hours a night.

elektra_lucia · Dec 21, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

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1. The fact that i'm a rank one and the fact that the only good team builds out there are really balanced teams and spike teams dosnt allow me to play on a good, fun team.

Depends of your perception of balance; in addition, good is relative.

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2. So far the only way i have been able to get fame is to do the dreaded IWAY which has the most nubs in it that I have ever seen

Then you haven't tried hard enough. It doesn't have to be this way

.

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3. There is only one way to improve in HA and that is to be in a good team but the fact that I am not a R3+ smashes that dream into the ground

You said it yourself, it's a dream. Not actually correct. There are plenty of ways to improve in HA without being in a good team. Wake up this is not a drill soldier.

I also tried to help people in this thread: http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10231539

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4. We were all nubs once weren't we?

There's nubs, newbs, noobs.

I went from semi (perhaps more) pro-gaming to playing guild wars PVE for fun. Then I got involved in the competitive side of guildwars. I some what wanted to be good, nothing would of shaken that attitude from me. I didn't fall to IWAY. Some don't have this attitude. Some want fame at any cost, some are happy to think they're good and not realise they are bad.

There are all different types of nubs

.

However, we all started off new at the game when we first got it (it seems too obvious to mention but whatever). Then we made friends or acquaintances rather. Finally the teams for us have got better and it takes ten times the amount of fame to gain the next rank. Poor Billy doesn't get to play in the good high rank groups though even though he is high rank too. He IWAY'd

.

Now apparently I am meant to go back to the 'nub' groups or?

Orange Milk · Dec 21, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

r5 g3

I could careless most of the time about the rank of those on my team as long as they have the needed skills and understand the build. Now when I'm out for blood, yes, I wait it out for higher ranked teams/players.

I do, however, look at titles before accepting ALWAYS. If a guy has on "Canthan pathfinder 70%" I'm probobly not joining that guy. Chances are that being on a PvE character the guy is ot going to have the skills/runes/weapons needed. If ya can't hit "J" I'll most likely stay away from ya. Who knows maybe the guy is r10 g7 and just happens to be on a PvE, but what are the chances.

Bottom line for you folks that are lower rank than my low rank. Roll into PvP areas with PvP only Characters. Your FoW Aromor with Swordsmanship runes is no good in in HA when a Backbreaker warrior is needed. Your Victo's Blade that you have not customized incase you need to sell it later is no help either because 20% adds up. If a "high" rank playrs asks you to switch up you build don't say "Hey this works against mobs of vermin, I'll be fine" Thats where all this "High Rank are Elitiests" comes from, its the narrow minded low ranks that high ranks get tired of putting up with. They aren't telling you to change because they are elitists, theyare telling you to change because they know. Yeah you attack fast with flail, but when your walking and the monk is running away, who cares. Flail is kick ass against monster that don't kite though.

I could Join elecktra in writing for days, but I'm going to go get beer instead.

Dominator1370 · Dec 21, 2007, 09:50 PM // 21:50

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Bottom line for you folks that are lower rank than my low rank. Roll into PvP areas with PvP only Characters. Your FoW Aromor with Swordsmanship runes is no good in in HA when a Backbreaker warrior is needed. Your Victo's Blade that you have not customized incase you need to sell it later is no help either because 20% adds up. If a "high" rank playrs asks you to switch up you build don't say "Hey this works against mobs of vermin, I'll be fine" Thats where all this "High Rank are Elitiests" comes from, its the narrow minded low ranks that high ranks get tired of putting up with.

Some of it, yes. On the other hand, you can go into HA with a PvP character, willingness (and ability) to reroll, an understanding of most common bars, acceptance of the fact that you don't know everything and a willingness to learn what you don't and still get crap. You might get slightly less, but you still get it. That could be what they're talking about too.

elektra_lucia · Dec 21, 2007, 10:41 PM // 22:41

There is no reason to give them crap but also no reason to have them in the group either.

wuzzman · Dec 21, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

The second problem with HA is that players come directly into HA without spending any time in TA. Meaning that they enter HA with a mentality that dictates that HA is simply an 8 man RA group.

elektra_lucia · Dec 22, 2007, 12:11 AM // 00:11

To unlock HA you have to play TA I thought?

NoPantsRepublic · Dec 22, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

turtles.

>:(

wuzzman · Dec 22, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

yeah you have to win 5 games, you can do that by Ra'ing with a glad point team...

Graphik Desine · Dec 22, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

without spending MUCH time in TA is what he means, and also might be referring to the players who have had the game since release but have not pvped until fairly recently---and the old HA was unlocked after glint mission was finished. which would, yes, have put them straight into HA without dragging through TA/RA. players since factions have had to go thru RA/TA...i am sure you knew that though...

you know, elektra. i feel that this topic has reached a point to where it has kicked the dead horse over and over. but again, this is only my opinion.

i have spent nearly half my gw time in HA (almost r10--but casual HAer anymore since AB maps and spiritwayers). i have had my ups and downs there (as many others have too), and agree with most of your main post, coming from the same sort of standpoint---BUT

i believe a part of being a reasonable, competent, confident HA player does require patience--without posting (and/or repeating) publicly how much of a downer some people turned out to be for your guild or builds. now, i know i am a rare case, but i cursed about groups failing for about 2 minutes then moved on and got my confidence back so i could join different groups with a clean slate. which surprisingly works for me. some combinations of people just don't work...

like letting bygones be bygones. there are always going to be people who do not necessarily care for the amount of time that anyone puts into specific things. and they are everywhere, and even play this game. taking things for granted is a huge flaw as a part of human personality and it is worse now than ever. i have learned that, and have fallen victim to "little attention paid to the things i did for others inside or outside the game." i might not do those things again, but i have not taken the time to publicly humiliate those who tried to hold me back. i moved on, and became more than what they did to me. and just never spoke to or dealt with them again, as it was not meant to be that i could coexist with them.

i understand that rank discrim is always going to exist (which i did gripe to myself/my monitor about a lot when i was new to ha but never let it hold me back from who i wanted to be in a game--and i just gained a lot of confidence and experience that way, but not overconfidence. i am in no way the best player in gw, but i dont treat new players like crap either), but there really is not any way to change how specific individuals act. it is part of their personality that if they have more than someone else has, that they are proven better somehow. it is just too hard to change people.

if you cannot change them elektra (and others who have found themselves in this scenario, not just you), just forget about it. move on. do better things with your time than worry about this. if the people who tried to drag you down were not meant to go far, then they wont. if they are, then try to beat them at their own game

Dodo The Extinct · Dec 22, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53

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Well what I have said you have had no valid argument against. I was content that to any intelligent person I had made my point which is a valid one. (obviously you are not an intelligent person) But since it would make an arse like you happy for me to stop posting in here I guess I will have to continue. If you happen to phone a friend and get help comming up with a valid reason why there could not be some sort of different town or whatever to let people say r0-r3 only, another for r4-r6, and so on play against like opponents then I will be happy to agree with you and move on. But as it stands I see no rational argument against having it seperate.

That would just force every new HA player to be brought up with a series of no-coordination gimmiks. What you are asking for is an Arena where people run IWAY and Sway non-stop. What this causes is a big group of players who can run one satisfactory build well, and not much else.

When everybody is in the same pot, not-so-dumb newbies realize that good groups run builds that work, and that the good builds tend not to be IWAY or Sway. This is the education that would be lost.

RotteN · Dec 22, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

good post.

I myself have abbandonned tombs (or HA, whatever you whish to call it) a long time ago and only play when friends/guildies ask me to now.

But i can relate to the observation that most players that force their way into PvP are indeed so sure of their own awesomeness that they do little to no effort to actually improve.

There's always "that other guy" that made your team miraculously lose. "our monks suck" or "that stupid mesmer didn't shut down ... enough" and so on. Whenever i see a "new" PvP player whine about how hard it is and how he never gets to play with the good teams i always think "was it that hard when i started playing ?". Ok, i started in the early days of Guildwars but when i started to PvP often "rank elitism" was already in place, sort of. Yet i won my first HoH before i even got to R3, flanked by guildies and friends, some of them well on their way to R9 and up.

If you realy are good enough, you'll get your chances sooner or later. If you haven't had that chance yet, then you might ask yourself : "am I good enough yet ?". And once you start answering "No" to that question, and once you're able to give reasons why you're not good enough, that's the moment you'll start improving. And then it's just a matter of time before you get your chance.

a guild can surely help here. Because, as the OP pointed out : it's easier to spot other people's mistakes. So if you have guildies giving you feedback, and you do the same for them, everyone wins

ax mastery · Dec 22, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

People need to learn to make groups in less than two hours that don't break up after being afk for 5 minutes before even entering.

Note: The above text is mostly directed at myself.

DreamWind · Dec 22, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

I used to think "rank discrimination" was a joke, and I still do to some extent, but after recent GW logons I think the problem has finally become reality.

The problem isn't high ranks not accepting low ranks, because that is a given and probably SHOULD happen. The problem is that there are very few low rank pugs in existence anymore. Low rank pugs with any organization are even more rare.

This creates a huge gap in the playerbase that is not currently filled. In the old days new players could quickly pick up an Iway pug and gain some HA experience. They could go on later to try out better builds if they were serious about PvP. Nowadays that is nearly impossible.

The amount of districts today compared to years ago is truly sad. I am not saying rank is the only factor (or even the biggest factor), but it was definately A factor.

Xanatos_De_Creon · Dec 23, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

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Originally Posted by DreamWind

I used to think "rank discrimination" was a joke, and I still do to some extent, but after recent GW logons I think the problem has finally become reality.

The problem isn't high ranks not accepting low ranks, because that is a given and probably SHOULD happen. The problem is that there are very few low rank pugs in existence anymore. Low rank pugs with any organization are even more rare.

This creates a huge gap in the playerbase that is not currently filled. In the old days new players could quickly pick up an Iway pug and gain some HA experience. They could go on later to try out better builds if they were serious about PvP. Nowadays that is nearly impossible.

The amount of districts today compared to years ago is truly sad. I am not saying rank is the only factor (or even the biggest factor), but it was definately A factor.

/Agreed

OS: that problem isn't limited just to HA and it's rank system, but the GW community in general is not very 'new player' friendly...

Anyhow for what it is worth I am one of these 'no rank' up starts that has tried to find pugs that will take me. It is really hard to learn how to do something in PvP when no one wants to take the time to teach you. "Watch OB mode" is what most say... fat lot of good that does if no one is there to tell you what the heck is going on, what went wrong and what went right.

You lot like posting, ok... go post something positive, heck yeah I want into a higher ranked group.... you know why? not because I think I'm as good as, but because I'd actually like to learn from somebody who knows what they are doing instead of being lead by those who don't.

Post like the OP only manage to kill desire to learn. I don't ever want to be anything like the OP. I know I'm just as worthy as they are, I am capable of learning what they know (if not more), I simply have yet to obtain that knowledge and experience yet.

long and short... quit talking down to people. your experiment failed because you fail to see that person as a potential equal. yes there are things to be taught but constantly telling a person they are stupid doesn't make them any smarter.

TaCktiX · Dec 23, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

There's a difference between you and me, eager learners, and Joe Noob, who thinks Mending is the best thing to happen to Guild Wars since Frenzy. The OP is railing on those latter people, not on us, though I have learned from painful experience with the OP in-game that not being fully aware of the entire team's actions is tantamount to saying "stupid things."