Curse

moko · Dec 12, 2007, 06:00 PM // 18:00

try staying a bit on topic here, please.

elektra_lucia · Dec 12, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Also be smart, example: When someone wants a r8+ Necro, whisp him you're either r8 or r9 and tell him you'll reroll to a Necro. Also give him a character name. The party leader might forget to see your rank in many cases....

Rank discrimination exists for a reason, you've stated that you're better than you were when R3, and will be better when you're r9. So why would a r9 group want you, if you can't keep up to their level of play. You then think lying is the answer. Which is essentially what you are doing. There might of been a time I would agree with that but conning isn't the right answer trust me

. That's not being smart either. When they find out your rank you will have problems; in addition, you can't trust people that you lie to.

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many r6 players are just 'terribad' and significantly show they played one or two gimmick builds to get it..

That's worse than conning people to gain groups?

Quote:

The r6 leader had a friend, he was r7 and he made good fame runs with lame builds at that time. When I saw him in HA being 7/8 I told him I was the guildie of his friend, and he inmediately accepted me (I was still showing my r3 Luxon thinking it would help me getting into groups). That's how I got r3 in a short period of time (playing heroway yes, I don't care if you flame me for it since r0-r4/r5 can't play balanced).

Not going to flame you, but I hope you realise what message you are giving across. Lol.

Shadowspawn X · Dec 12, 2007, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holz

Also be smart, example: When someone wants a r8+ Necro, whisp him you're either r8 or r9 and tell him you'll reroll to a Necro. Also give him a character name. The party leader might forget to see your rank in many cases....

Yeah , but if you are discovered with your deceit you are making a bad rep why dont you just get in a group that doesn't mind you are r6?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holz

but I notice many r6 players are just 'terribad' and significantly show they played one or two gimmick builds to get it..

I'm surprised that you aren't realizing that an r6, r7 is still a low rank beginner. There are many builds that experienced players can use to rake in 100-250 fame a day while r6/r7 guys can't even get one fame with the same build. Field awareness is the main thing missing from low level players. They don't really know whats going on around them in the battlefield environment and how to influence that environment to their advantage. All this talk about <r3 the r6/r7/r8 are the guys that really need help and can't get it. I'm r7 and to me we are the forgotten ranks of HA.

elektra_lucia · Dec 12, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I put up a separate topic for gaining fame. I hope that people who read this thread will realise high rank people have no reason for the majority of the time to play with low rank people.

Holz · Dec 12, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Rank discrimination exists for a reason, you've stated that you're better than you were when R3, and will be better when you're r9. So why would a r9 group want you, if you can't keep up to their level of play. You then think lying is the answer. Which is essentially what you are doing. There might of been a time I would agree with that but conning isn't the right answer trust me

. That's not being smart either. When they find out your rank you will have problems; in addition, you can't trust people that you lie to.

That's worse than conning people to gain groups?

Not going to flame you, but I hope you realise what message you are giving across. Lol.

PANDA, I wasn't talking about r6 that should pretend they are r8, I was talking about desperate r0 or r3 that might do that. But then again, you're right, it's lying

. (I do think party leaders should be alert thought, it's their own fault if they fail to check ranks, it's part of their job

.) Also why did you edit your post, you said you played IWAY when you started HA even when you told yourself you wouldn't even 'touch' it. Editing out stuff like that is lame imo

Quote:

Not going to flame you, but I hope you realise what message you are giving across. Lol.

I'm not sure? Maybe you mean it's lame for a r7 to constantly play heroway, yes you're right. At that time I didn't care and just wanted to make fame (who wouldn't?) though.

Quote:

I'm surprised that you aren't realizing that an r6, r7 is still a low rank beginner. There are many builds that experienced players can use to rake in 100-250 fame a day while r6/r7 guys can't even get one fame with the same build. Field awareness is the main thing missing from low level players. They don't really know whats going on around them in the battlefield environment and how to influence that environment to their advantage. All this talk about <r3 the r6/r7/r8 are the guys that really need help and can't get it. I'm r7 and to me we are the forgotten ranks of HA.

I don't consider myself to be a high rank player, but I must admit I was glad when I got my wolf. I am not entirely sure what you want to point out here, but, I think r8's have no problem at all getting into groups. The highest req. these days is r9, 95% of the time. Sometimes you see groups that ask for r10+ or even r11+ only, however this is very rare. Especially now since a lot of players stopped playing and the HA playerbase isn't what it used to be, many r9+ groups would accept an r8 =). The same goes for r7 players, they can join r8+ groups with some luck.

6am3 Fana71c · Dec 13, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

It is no good looking for excuses as to why you're stuck at that fame level.
This thread might as well be closed now.

Everyone plays for fun, surprisingly.

Yes I know, I am not looking for excuses, I'm just saying what's my worst problem. Every time I enter HA I scan for anyone asking for RC. No one? Ok. I try to start a balanced group. That takes over an hour. We go in, maybe win a match, maybe lose one. Anyway, after match or two, people leave, and then you have to get new players to "fill the holes" which takes time...again.
And btw I don't agree with your last sentence. I wish the truth was like that, but in fact, many players just play HA to farm fame (and don't care if they have fun in process).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

It also helps if you're not terribad at the game. Some people aren't ranked, and never will be/should be for the reason previously mentioned.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but some people just aren't cut out for PvP. Weather it be because they're simply inept and unwilling to learn, or something as simple as a bad computer/internet connection.

Not generalizing all new players, just saying a majority of unranked players are probably unranked for a reason.

Aye, I agree Shiz. I know beeing terribad isn't really helping. I never said I kick arse at monking, but I know my build, I know what to do with it, and in general, I guess I'm an okay monk. Whenever I get a group, I never get any insults or complaints from anyone if we lose, while others were getting them. And yeah, if I make mistake I'm not afraid to accept it and learn from it. I agree not everyone should be ranked, perhaps neither should I, but.. Whenever I'm in good group (especially with people I know) things go alright.

red orc · Dec 13, 2007, 10:15 AM // 10:15

I stopped playing HA for the same reason.
It takes too much time to form a group.
This is just no fun trying to form a group for 1/2 - 1 an hour.

Anet, you need to solve it in GW2.

RhanoctJocosa · Dec 13, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by red orc

I stopped playing HA for the same reason.
It takes too much time to form a group.
This is just no fun trying to form a group for 1/2 - 1 an hour.

Anet, you need to solve it in GW2.

why is it so hard for people to realise EVERYONE starts somewhere. i can remember back in 05 waiting HOURS to find groups and have them disband after a few runs. if you really want to get into ha you'll just have to persevere like everyone else.

bungusmaximus · Dec 13, 2007, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

why is it so hard for people to realise EVERYONE starts somewhere. i can remember back in 05 waiting HOURS to find groups and have them disband after a few runs. if you really want to get into ha you'll just have to persevere like everyone else.

There is a slight difference though, if you want to get into HA the hard way nowadays you'll get a significant rank when noone plays this game anymore. That's why I personally never bothered with fame and started with 4vs4 to get a significant glads rank. In RA you can farm glad's alone and in TA making a team isn't too much work. Usually HA pugs are willing to take me as soon as they see I am at least experienced in PvP. That way I more or less skipped the pain staking fame farming runs.

I find it hard to believe that waiting in int1 for hours gets you any good at PvP, especially nowadays with the vicious competition going around. Long waits = no balthazar = no UAX = just shit imho.

Shadowborn Demon · Dec 18, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I must admit i haven't read the entirity of this thread, yet I will make a comment regarding the main point and what i think of the situation.
I personally have just come back from a long peroid away from GW, and everything has changed. Previously, i used to think i was a very good player until I joined a GvG guild who were very serious. Me, I only play monks most of the time. I played with them and although I was an ok player, there was no way i could keep up with their level of play; I wasn't in the right position, I couldn't infuse on time, I couldn't handle energy management that well, the list goes on. The only reason i was of any use to them was because I knew what worked and what didn't - i merely couldn't play it. I also knew most of the skills off by heart and i was fairly good [at least i think i was, not entirely sure now] at making builds. Now I have come back and am still facing roundabouts the same problems, albeit a little better at monking, yet I now have no knowledge of the metagame or what builds and techniques [apart from monk builds] everyone is running. My dilemma now is that I want to get better, yet don't have the rank to get into higher ranked groups that I could learn something from. I have played with many PuGs and some members of my guild; yet we dont really have enough people at the moment to HA with a full team of just guildies. The PuGs, I must say, were absolutely appalling, and many of them did things even I wouldn't do wrong. I'm not entirely sure how I compare to some of them, frankly, yet I honestly think I am of a better calibre of player than the PuGs i played with were. I would like to be able to play with higher ranked groups who can teach me how to play effectively and improve my standard of gaming, yet I cannot without the in game contacts or the rank to do so. I have kind of lost my thread here, but the point I am trying to make is how can I player such as myself willing to learn and accept critiscm improve if all i can do is join PuGs who are worse that I am?

PS. I admit I may be completely mistaken about my skill level, in that case I apologize for being such a hypocrit.

~~Shadowborn

elektra_lucia · Dec 18, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Rank wasn't like champ points or glad points, so luckily for you if you had rank nine then you'd have rank nine now. Also, you completely missed the point about the thread, not to worry though a million others think like you. Why not join a group with them?

If you read the thread (which I know you haven't or you might understand what it's about) you will see quite a few saying how pugs are bad, and they are low rank. I think there's enough to make a full team out of. What do you run on a two monk backline for a WoH monk and Prot monk (RC). What do you run on an RC prot in three monk backline (two heal one prot, in this example)?

P.S. Can you give three reasons as to why a high rank player should accept you in their team?

britnie31 · Dec 19, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

Its funny though i have two accounts / both with very similar names / Both kinda known amungst the HA ers that are core ... And one is rank 9 and one is rank 3 ( it was a friends pve that i just started pvp ing on ) at any rate , i know i can run any build any bar and ill try to get in some times with higher rank people .. some believe me some dont , i really dont care , i have been so bored that i got on my r9 and got in a group and explained and re rolled accounts .... lol ...

all that said , i dont know .. i love letting new people in to run with me , what i hate is when they determine now to PM me everytime i get on askin me to run with them ....

elektra_lucia · Dec 20, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Yeah I get that. My biggest thing is just they think they understand something but don't and then talk based on their ignorance which just annoys me xD. I think that newer players don't tend to see the bigger picture and so they end up seeing in black and white, kind of. So they talk based on that.

As for the two account thing, yeah. It's some what funny to message people from five accounts o.0.

Keithark · Dec 20, 2007, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

why is it so hard for people to realise EVERYONE starts somewhere. i can remember back in 05 waiting HOURS to find groups and have them disband after a few runs. if you really want to get into ha you'll just have to persevere like everyone else.

"It sucked for me so it has to suck for you as well" is a lame arguement.

A-Net should take the average rank of a team and match it up with who they fight, that way you could play against people same level as you so you would win every now and then and get some fame and you would actually be learning in the process. (what are you going to learn as a rank 0 player gtting partywiped by a bunch of r10+ ppl in 3 seconds??) This is the one and only way that HA can be salvaged into anything more than a huge waste of time.

If I were rank 9 I would not want a rank 3 on my team either so this is why the fix has to come from a-net in the way mentioned above...if I knew I was going to come up against a bunch of people with 1-2 rank every time then I would play and would be able to get lots of my friends to play as well. But as it is a rank 0 team has little chance of getting 1 fame in 2-3 hours of play (partly because it takes 1 of those hours to just ttry to form a party)

bungusmaximus · Dec 20, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithark

A-Net should take the average rank of a team and match it up with who they fight, that way you could play against people same level as you so you would win every now and then and get some fame and you would actually be learning in the process. (what are you going to learn as a rank 0 player gtting partywiped by a bunch of r10+ ppl in 3 seconds??) This is the one and only way that HA can be salvaged into anything more than a huge waste of time.

Winner, people will no doubt say it's too easy to get fame that way, but that problem will soon solve itself when players earn a higher rank. When people want to farm noobs with gimmick trash they will get smacked as soon as they 'rise' in the ranks because they chose the easy way. The only thing that could be problematic is too little people being on line to make good matches. maybe this system should work up to a certain rank (some beginner's stage). When the player reaches rank 2 or 3 the teams should be matched again in the way they're matched at present. I agree with this post though, for beginners, HA IS a huge waste of time.

Edit: I wonder wether people should be allowed to actually win halls that way btw. I forgot about that one.

LifesRestorer · Dec 20, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

people dont like gvging at high levels becuase of the super long wait for +0 matches. dont bring this into HA by bringing super long waits for super long matches found on UW, followed by (if you win) another super long wait for 2 fame on the next match.

time to start ranking up other accounts eh, its like a new form of smurfing

elektra_lucia · Dec 20, 2007, 05:23 PM // 17:23

Again I think the topic was over looked, and whoever idea it was to match similar rankings is just plain damn right retarded. Why not match skill too, and just have it so you win a match lose a match. That's basically the logic you aim for, which makes getting higher rank even harder. Do you guys not understand that the fame required to gain a rank increases per rank? Therefore, if you make it easier to gain rank 3, you're only making it near impossible to gain rank12. Unless of course you want to play 40+ thousand UW matches.

Quote:

I agree with this post though, for beginners, HA IS a huge waste of time.

You can say the same about any format of PVP.

Also, to repeat. This topic was about the reasons higher rank people discriminate and not another RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing HI IM LOW RANK SO IM GOING TO WHINE THREAD. I have even played with people from this forum who were low rank, the type to think they're better than other pugs. I can tell you, they were absolutely shocking. Stop blaming a-net people, you are just -bad- at the game.

Quote:

"It sucked for me so it has to suck for you as well" is a lame arguement.

Oh yes, let's put up with bad things and after we have spent ages trying to gain rank and a nice friend list we will then help people who don't have what we have (nice friend list and rank) only to then go through the stages of being a rank1 PUG again. Real nice.

When will people start learning that being good comes from drive? Not the drive to bash a-net. Do you think you are going to improve from playing similar rank people all the time? I don't think so.

LifesRestorer · Dec 20, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

When will people start learning that being good comes from drive?

quoted for emphasis

bungusmaximus · Dec 21, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

When will people start learning that being good comes from drive? Not the drive to bash a-net. Do you think you are going to improve from playing similar rank people all the time? I don't think so.

Good one, because when I look at myself, drive keeps me playing (Why should I even bother about fame or titles, I only maxed protector of cantha on all chars ^^). Take TA as an example, it doesn't even give me fame, I just love to play it and that's it, it can be hard at times, but at least it's easy to get into. I don't want to get in HA the easy way, I just want to play (I would gladly settle for a seperate starter arena that doesn't even give fame). What I don't want is waiting in an outpost for an hour, take a long time to form a group, get smoked in 3 minutes by a r9+ pug and start over again. That's what I more or less meant by my post: driven people want to practice and play. At present joining/making a good guild is the only way to play often (not that there's something wrong with that, agreed).

Keithark · Dec 21, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

"I do think there should be some way for ppl new to HA to play without having to go against people who have been in HA for 2 years"

so how do you think the above problem should be fixed? Or do you think it should not be fixed and that only people playing HA will be r6+ and after time and they get to the rank they want HA just dies off and nobody there at all because there was no good way for beginners to get into it?

As far as PvP goes I only GvG (and ra if you consider that PvP) But I don't mind at all having ppl on my GvG team that have never played a single GvG before. I rather enjoy watching them learn. My guildies and I do make sure that we ask alliance first but if we still have a spot after that we go to RA or TA and ask if anyone wants to guest. As long as person is willing to run the build we give them and try to do what we ask we have no problem with them no matter how bad they are (and we have had lots of bad and lots of good ones) I don't see why it is so much different in HA. If I were rank 5 for example I too would spam for r5+ ppl but if I didn't get a group in 10-15 min or so I'd take whoever wanted to go and run the build I gave them because playing with nubs is always more fun than sitting in town spamming.