Curse

TaCktiX · Dec 11, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

The easiest way to get into higher ranked groups than you actually are is networking (yeah, just like in real life). I currently roll regularly with an R6+ group, and an R8+ group. My total fame is 480 (yeah, R4, I don't do it everyday).

The R6 group I've been playing with since I started HAing (they gave lowly R0 monk me a chance to play a SoMW spike, then let me stay for the other groups they rolled). The R8 group I joined through one of my friends, who professed my ability to monk was pretty good. I backed his reference up, playing at the level they were wanting.

And I know I posted earlier in this topic with a different opinion. But I do believe the popular conception of "low rank people just won't ever roll with high rank" is a load of shitoki mushrooms. Take opportunities, and you will surprise yourself with the results.

Necromas · Dec 11, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Us low rank players may not be as skilled as a rank 10, I'm pretty sure I've always been aware of that, but what I am aware of is that you notice a rather obvious gap between low rank players.

There are a few that are your classic 'noobs' and really do suck bad and have worse attitudes, and give us a horrible reputation.

There are players who just aren't very competetive, and are often seen pugging randomway and such, while I have nothing against these players as long as they're honest about how they play, they still give us a bad reputation.

And then there are players of pretty widely varying skill, who are trying hard, being competetive, learning and improving, and are good sports. Some of these players aren't very good, but many are a lot better than they get credit for. Myself, and more importantly the people I have played with of all kinds of ranks high and low, agree that I play on a decent level and am not the stereotypical low rank player that can't fight his way out of a paper bag.

This low rank stigma though that every rank 1 player is a newbie fresh out of PvE or a noob that can't fight better then a blind henchie is really annoying, and while sometimes higher ranked players will vouch for me on the off chance they were in a group with me in the first place to see how I play, I'm pretty much forced into FotM teams like zergway and have to rely on the luck of the draw to get decent teammates. The only way I see this being solved is finding a decent pvp guild that will take a rank 1 player in the first place (I actually have gotten a few guild invites into pvp guilds from players who met me in HA teams in the times when I haven't been in other guilds, but all of them had schedules I couldn't commit to).

Kaelyn the Dove · Dec 11, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromas

Us low rank players may not be as skilled as a rank 10, I'm pretty sure I've always been aware of that, but what I am aware of is that you notice a rather obvious gap between low rank players.

There are a few that are your classic 'noobs' and really do suck bad and have worse attitudes, and give us a horrible reputation.

There are players who just aren't very competetive, and are often seen pugging randomway and such, while I have nothing against these players as long as they're honest about how they play, they still give us a bad reputation.

And then there are players of pretty widely varying skill, who are trying hard, being competetive, learning and improving, and are good sports. Some of these players aren't very good, but many are a lot better than they get credit for. Myself, and more importantly the people I have played with of all kinds of ranks high and low, agree that I play on a decent level and am not the stereotypical low rank player that can't fight his way out of a paper bag.

This low rank stigma though that every rank 1 player is a newbie fresh out of PvE or a noob that can't fight better then a blind henchie is really annoying, and while sometimes higher ranked players will vouch for me on the off chance they were in a group with me in the first place to see how I play, I'm pretty much forced into FotM teams like zergway and have to rely on the luck of the draw to get decent teammates. The only way I see this being solved is finding a decent pvp guild that will take a rank 1 player in the first place (I actually have gotten a few guild invites into pvp guilds from players who met me in HA teams in the times when I haven't been in other guilds, but all of them had schedules I couldn't commit to).

No you are not forced to play lameway. That is your choice, and noone else's. As has been mentioned ad nauseam, go out and form your own groups, give people the build you want them to run, if they don't like it, and won't listen to reason, kick them out and find someone else. You are bound to eventually find people you get along with and have good chemistry, and then you can form your own guild, and you will see how the team goes from bad to mediocre (some even develop into good/great teams...for my part, I am still mediocre). On the other hand, if what you want is the relatively quick fame right away, then go ahead and keep joining the lameway pugs.

L.J · Dec 11, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Hi
Before I start I just want to let you know I only read the first couple of pages.

I have been in PVE for about a year and casually RA'ing(achieved rank 1 glad) and decided to step into HA. I tried a few months ago but failed and gave up(lack of finding groups) and although I am facing the same problems now I am determined to succeed. I don't so much mind that higher rank groups wont accept us lower ranked into there group, its really much of a risk. I really want to start playing some real builds but I face the problem that all low ranks want to do is IWAY. I started joining IWAY simply to get some understanding of HA(maps ect.) but its no fun and I want to play real builds. Sure I can start a group but my problem is that I don't have the experience to lead.

If anything I look up to high rank players, and feel greatful when one or even a few join my team.

My biggest problem I believe is networking with fellow pvpers. All my current friends are PvE'rs with absolutely no pvp experience and no interest in it at all. Starting in the PvP world is like starting gw all over again(kinda refreshing).

Has anyone got some tips with networking?

It also doesn't help I live in Australia and very few PuGers at evening time here.

Vel · Dec 11, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.J

...........I tried a few months ago but failed and gave up(lack of finding groups) and although I am facing the same problems now I am determined to succeed. I don't so much mind that higher rank groups wont accept us lower ranked into there group, its really much of a risk.

...............

Has anyone got some tips with networking?

It also doesn't help I live in Australia and very few PuGers at evening time here.

1. Don't worry about builds when you are starting. Don't listen to 1337s talking about various builds on forums and trashing FoTMs or "the most puggable builds". Most of them are snobs. Just join whatever groups take you in. First you need to master underworld and then Fetid. That's 3 fames per run. In 60 runs you are R3 and with some luck you will survive in Burial Mounds and it will even take less time to reach r3. And that's the hardest rank to achieve.

2. Now, try for r6. As you do that, look at different builds that people play. Look for the builds that are pugged the most. Pick a class and try to get as much experience as you can in it. You are now r4. Join one of those guilds who play regularly regardless of their skills and abilities. You will be r5. Now, its time for you to gain more understanding of the latter maps and HoH tactics. By this time, you will have a standard group of people who you have been playing with. If not, join pugs. Slowly, you will get urself into a group that meets and plays regularly. You WILL be r6.

3. Now, if you are patient and are willing to move forward to get your tiger, try to use your experience in a particular class and get into groups that you have been seeing in HA regularly. They NEED NOT be high ranked groups. You just need people who play regularly at your "play time-frame". R6-R9 is probably the best time to gain lot more in-depth understanding of HA, builds and tactics than at any other levels.

DO NOT think joining groups having R10+ or people with flaunted champion titles will get you what you are looking for. To be honest with you, most of them are quite disgusting and epitome of failure. And the ones who are good, probably won't need you in their team. Sad but very very true. I am almost r10 and gained every single fame by pugging or by playing with organized pugs or friends for last 2+ years. So, I am sure I know a bit about pugging.

elektra_lucia · Dec 11, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

There has been countless of threads about people fresh into HA. This thread was more about higher rank views of rank discrimination and not another low rank thread.

I might make another thread, that can have all the information for people starting HA without having to ruin this thread with people coming and saying 'I'm new to HA, what do I do'.

Apparently I am flaming when I ask people 'why should high rank people give low rank people a chance'. I have yet to gain an answer to this mystery, perhaps because we all know there is no reason for such a thing.

rank9, two years of HA, average of 6.5 fame per day is not something I would say you should aim for simply because no one wants to look that far ahead into the future. It is better to aim for 100 fame a day, and get 40 than aim for 5, and get 5 kind of thing. I will discuss more of that in another thread though because this thread wasn't really about that.

Quote:

It also doesn't help I live in Australia and very few PuGers at evening time here.

It helps. Unless you play at a silly hour your time you will find teams easier to beat at Australian time.

bungusmaximus · Dec 11, 2007, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Getting glad's titles gets you into some teams too. Since I hit glads2 getting into pugs isn't that hard. I always look out for the semi-serious PUG's anyway, those that do require solid builds but don't play on their toes. High level PUG's are right out.

Too bad my favourite proffession is warrior. Many people want warriors to call tactics, and you don't want me on that because I didn't HA too much yet (r1 atm). But hell, practice makes perfect they say. The only thing that wtfSUCKS at guild wars PvP is that some peoplle have such a huge headstart, I bought GW when factions was released so I sometimes tend to fall behind because other people had twice as much time to get good at this game.

xx hells paladin xx · Dec 11, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

really the discrimination isnt that bad high rank groups sometimes let u in wen ur not ranked i join r6+ groups all the time and im r1 sometimes they make u show but not always

Vel · Dec 11, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Apparently I am flaming when I ask people 'why should high rank people give low rank people a chance'. I have yet to gain an answer to this mystery, perhaps because we all know there is no reason for such a thing.

rank9, two years of HA, average of 6.5 fame per day is not something I would say you should aim for simply because no one wants to look that far ahead into the future. It is better to aim for 100 fame a day, and get 40 than aim for 5, and get 5 kind of thing. I will discuss more of that in another thread though because this thread wasn't really about that.

My apologies, My post was looking back how I did it. Hoped that will help someone who think high ranked folks(relative term) discriminate against low ranked ones. I do believe there is discrimination but, it is natural. I look at r3, r6, r9s as graduation levels. And its best to play at the same level of competency so that you don't become blame-sinks. When you flat out neglect, its discrimination, but, if you deny and explain why, it actually is never viewed as such.

Also, it did not take me two years to get the amount of fame I currently have. Point in fact IIRC it took me 3-4 weeks to r3, 1 week to r6, 1-2 weeks to r7, 4-5 weeks to r8 and 6-7 weeks to r9. Rest came as I went along. At the present state of HA, 100 fame/day is possible if you play considerable amount of time per day in HA. I, unfortunately, don't have the luxury. So, 2-3 hrs per day quota of my-time gets exhausted really fast.

6am3 Fana71c · Dec 11, 2007, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vel

IIRC it took me 3-4 weeks to r3, 1 week to r6, 1-2 weeks to r7, 4-5 weeks to r8 and 6-7 weeks to r9. Rest came as I went along.

Well, to me that's pretty impressive since I am stuck at ~50 fame for like...a month. I guess more people played HA in "your" time? I'm something like L.J. and bungusmaximus described. New guy, but want to improve and have fun, I'm not really after emote farming. But like elektralucia said, we should stop hijacking the thread...

Ontopic tho, it happened to me once that I somehow ended up in ranked group. I was making unranked balanced group (and people were lol'ing in Local when they saw that), and some r6 player joined. Then he invited some of his r6 guildies, while others left the group....so at the end it was only me, and his whole r6 guild group...They knew I'm unranked but didn't forced me to leave, and we had some good time and fun (I played RC monk, as allways). So I guess miracles happen :P

Kyp Jade · Dec 11, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I've already stated my views on low rank players wanting in my groups, but I can reiterate to be more in line with the last few posts.

I lead guild teams, and most of the times, I dont have to pug at all, those are the fun times. In fact I dont really care too much when I lose to lameway teams, I'm just in to beat the living hell outa some people I know, and have a good time. WHen I dont have enough guild members on to play the roles they can play. (sometimes I have 2 people for the same midline role and someone gets left out even though im not 8/8, so keep that in mind when I get to the part about pugging players) then I have to check my friends list. Usually I get people that raged my guild because I decided to take a pve break, but hey at least I get people.

Anyway, that doesnt always work, and im stuck 6/8 or 7/8, and I still want to play. So this is the rare time I pug players. And my outlook on pugs is reasonable I think, everyone sucks. I know Im not that great, and I'll assume everyone else isnt that great either. I do expect when I find someone acceptable to play that hes a decent rank, but thats not always the case. I just ask the pug is able to play the bar to my expectations. This doesnt always happen, so I say sorry, and let them on thier way after a few runs. I dont see this as mean or cruel at all. My groups are out to play an have fun, and its very hard to do that when your pug warder puts ward of melee way out in the middle of nowhere, or uses eruption for aoe damage and not defense.

On the topic of low ranks climbing the rank ladder, the best way to do it is outlined above. I half followed that path, except I got tired of new faces everyday, so I made my own guild, and people I knew that played in my groups often were happy to come along. BEST way to enjoy any competitive pvp format in ANY game is to play with the same people all the time, no question about it.

elektra_lucia · Dec 11, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Well, to me that's pretty impressive since I am stuck at ~50 fame for like...a month. I guess more people played HA in "your" time?

It is no good looking for excuses as to why you're stuck at that fame level.
This thread might as well be closed now.

Everyone plays for fun, surprisingly. Also it's funny how people pick their friends to be rank10's. I don't see that someone is a friend if they're nice to me because I'm high rank. Sorry. Again, this wasn't what the topic was about.

iridescentfyre · Dec 11, 2007, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

(Still trying to get rank 1, lol)

Actually I'm in the same boat. I've played nearly since Guild Wars' launch, kept up-to-date on [most of] builds and the meta and still not done HA enough to get to rank 1.

I'd like to get into HA more, but I either end up with a team of Healing Hands W/Mo's (for functional equivalents), or just have to deal with high-ranked players who would sooner kill me as look at me. It seems like there's absolutely no middle ground.. rational players who know how to play good builds, but aren't experienced in HA. Thus I usually end up feeling like its not worth the effort and go back to TA's, AB's, and occasional GvG's.

Lorekeeper · Dec 11, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by iridescentfyre

Actually I'm in the same boat. I've played nearly since Guild Wars' launch, kept up-to-date on [most of] builds and the meta and still not done HA enough to get to rank 1.

I'd like to get into HA more, but I either end up with a team of Healing Hands W/Mo's (for functional equivalents), or just have to deal with high-ranked players who would sooner kill me as look at me. It seems like there's absolutely no middle ground.. rational players who know how to play good builds, but aren't experienced in HA. Thus I usually end up feeling like its not worth the effort and go back to TA's, AB's, and occasional GvG's.

its very understandable that with so many classes/skills/maps etc etc entry into HA is extremely difficult for new players or players who dont have so much time to play the game. What discussion that leads to is whether GW PvP should be more arcade like (literally like going to the arcades - you can spend 30min there and feel like youve achieved something by shooting some aliens or racing a car and winning a race) or whether it should be more skillbased (where you need to spend time practicing regularly to maintain a grip on the meta and bond with fellow teammates). Although thats not to say that arcade games never require skill (streetfighter being a great example of an arcade game that was attractive to both casual and hardcore crowds). Just GW is far more complex from a balance and mechanic point of view so appealing to both without sacrificing the qualities of either is extremely difficult.

10 classes... hundreds of skills... dozens of game mechanics = nightmare

while the game was fresh and the expansions were being released... it made more business sense to appeal more to the casual market because that resulted in more sales. Now that the game is aging, with fresh content no longer arriving and budgets being aimed at GW2 development... Anet can do more to appeal to the balancing demands of the hardcore market...

at least thats the observation ive made over the past 2.5 years of playing this game.

pah01 · Dec 11, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

I am not going to flame low ranks but todays are worse than before imo. I tried to teach some people some things by forming a group. Hardly any of them could get on vent. Hardly any had any worthwhile skills unlocked, and on top of that they had some of the worst skillbars known to man.

Joe

infymys · Dec 11, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Anyway, that doesnt always work, and im stuck 6/8 or 7/8, and I still want to play. So this is the rare time I pug players.

Don't neglect your alliance members!

Legendary Shiz · Dec 11, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

Well, to me that's pretty impressive since I am stuck at ~50 fame for like...a month. I guess more people played HA in "your" time? I'm something like L.J. and bungusmaximus described. New guy, but want to improve and have fun, I'm not really after emote farming. But like elektralucia said, we should stop hijacking the thread...

Ontopic tho, it happened to me once that I somehow ended up in ranked group. I was making unranked balanced group (and people were lol'ing in Local when they saw that), and some r6 player joined. Then he invited some of his r6 guildies, while others left the group....so at the end it was only me, and his whole r6 guild group...They knew I'm unranked but didn't forced me to leave, and we had some good time and fun (I played RC monk, as allways). So I guess miracles happen :P

It also helps if you're not terribad at the game. Some people aren't ranked, and never will be/should be for the reason previously mentioned.

It's a tough pill to swallow, but some people just aren't cut out for PvP. Weather it be because they're simply inept and unwilling to learn, or something as simple as a bad computer/internet connection.

Not generalizing all new players, just saying a majority of unranked players are probably unranked for a reason.

Abomination · Dec 12, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Great post, Myself only playing in one HA battle I can remember. I'd really like to do it more frequently (friend at school keeps bragging about it). But I haven't really bothered because of what you just proved here. The truth hurts.

TheOneMephisto · Dec 12, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

If it takes you that long to get r1 then it's probably your own fault. I'm pretty sure that I got rank 1 after playing a couple runs in 3-4 teams total, just pugging around.

And it's really easy to get at least r3 on a double fame weekend, because groups are numerous and fame comes fast.

Holz · Dec 12, 2007, 09:47 AM // 09:47

I also started PvP some months ago. I also complained on this very forum it would be impossible to get r3, and r6 would be unrealistic. Then I joined some PvP guild with unranked people and a r6 leader. The r6 leader had a friend, he was r7 and he made good fame runs with lame builds at that time. When I saw him in HA being 7/8 I told him I was the guildie of his friend, and he inmediately accepted me (I was still showing my r3 Luxon thinking it would help me getting into groups). That's how I got r3 in a short period of time (playing heroway yes, I don't care if you flame me for it since r0-r4/r5 can't play balanced). It's all about making friends, contacts and getting into the right guilds. Also be smart, example: When someone wants a r8+ Necro, whisp him you're either r8 or r9 and tell him you'll reroll to a Necro. Also give him a character name. The party leader might forget to see your rank in many cases....

So after some months with little PvP activity due to busy rl, I am r6 (w00t). I joined a top400 guild using my HA "contacts", and I realised GvG is about 400 times harder than HA. I don't consider myself pro in either GvG or HA, since I didn't play it enough. But I DO think playing some GvG's gives me an advantage in playing HA. And I agree with someone else posting that the current r6+ is r3+ in the past, not that I played in the past, but I notice many r6 players are just 'terribad' and significantly show they played one or two gimmick builds to get it.. And I also agree with someone else posting that high ranked means more skill/experience, since I consider myself to be better than I was at r3 now, and I'm sure I will consider myself better when I'm r9...