Curse

elektra_lucia · Oct 27, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Hey Lord Mendes. I will

. I forgot about you =D.

Good hero way was harder than rt spike

.

Quote:

Rit spike was not a fame-farm build

...LOL.

Quote:

I mean the lack of a need for callers

Rt spike needs one caller? monks have infinite energy so didn't need to say anything. Spikers didn't need to say anything they just listen to caller.

Quote:

It may have been easier to run than your standard balanced, but that's if you did it right.

Welcome to infinite energy o.0.

Riotgear · Oct 27, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

Rit spike was not a fame-farm build, because I've run horridly bad rit spikes that gained zero fame completely.

I could sit on my keyboard and push buttons with my ass, and I'd still be able to get fame with pre-nerf Ritspike.

TaCktiX · Oct 27, 2007, 05:40 AM // 05:40

On reflection, I realize how phenomenally stupid my defense of rit spike is. It was a very imbalanced build, for certain, and the nerf was deserved. Like Spiritway needs a nerf right now...if it ever gets one.

But what rit spike gave me was an introduction. I was constantly taking mental notes of opposing builds, of placement on the maps, of general tactics to consider. So when I started running solid balanced (almost immediately after Rit Spike's nerf), I was ready and able to do it decently well, considering I had run a spike build for most of the way to R4. I've only gotten better since then.

One undervalued skill is running a spike to know how to react to it. Instead of having the "Spike on 1" mentality, you know exactly how the spike will come in, and will be able to defend against it in a specific way. Against rit spike, that was running out of the rifts (many times I 66% snare-ran out of a rift). Against a Para or RSpike, that's putting blocking up and using walls to advantage. Being able to run a good pure spike build helps the balanced player out by knowing the machine behind that spike coming at them.

Lord Mendes · Oct 27, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

Hey Lord Mendes. I will

. I forgot about you =D.

Lol. That's kind of you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

On reflection, I realize how phenomenally stupid my defense of rit spike is. It was a very imbalanced build, for certain, and the nerf was deserved. Like Spiritway needs a nerf right now...if it ever gets one.

But what rit spike gave me was an introduction. I was constantly taking mental notes of opposing builds, of placement on the maps, of general tactics to consider. So when I started running solid balanced (almost immediately after Rit Spike's nerf), I was ready and able to do it decently well, considering I had run a spike build for most of the way to R4. I've only gotten better since then.

One undervalued skill is running a spike to know how to react to it. Instead of having the "Spike on 1" mentality, you know exactly how the spike will come in, and will be able to defend against it in a specific way. Against rit spike, that was running out of the rifts (many times I 66% snare-ran out of a rift). Against a Para or RSpike, that's putting blocking up and using walls to advantage. Being able to run a good pure spike build helps the balanced player out by knowing the machine behind that spike coming at them.

I agree with this post.
If playing gimmicks is the only option for newer players, you might aswell try to learn something about HA maps and mechanics as opposed to sitting there hitting 1 + 2 when your caller says so.

I don't have a problem with FoTMs in general (they help newer players get into teams), just the ones that are extremely overpowered and can be run by KurtTheBehemoth.

Legendary Shiz · Oct 27, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Mendes

Lol. That's kind of you.

I agree with this post.
If playing gimmicks is the only option for newer players, you might aswell try to learn something about HA maps and mechanics as opposed to sitting there hitting 1 + 2 when your caller says so.

I don't have a problem with FoTMs in general (they help newer players get into teams), just the ones that are extremely overpowered and can be run by KurtTheBehemoth.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!

No you didn't!

Omg Mendes, that was classic.

beorntheold · Oct 30, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

being effective in HA requires a lot of experience, no doubt about that.
you can be r10 and still suck, no doubt there either.

personally, what made me give up playing HA after i got my wolf emote, was not just it's repetitive and often gimmicky nature - it was mainly the [time spent waiting and forming]/[time spent playing] ratio outside of pure HA guilds.

with HA as with all other forms of PvP - anet just didn't invest the time, effort and, of course, money to polish their product. and that's a real pitty, because PvP was and still is GW's trump.

xx hells paladin xx · Nov 01, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

meh i dont think its that hard to find a group unranked anyway =P

auch · Nov 02, 2007, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Rank is the only way to measure skill even tho its a very bad measure but i pretty sure a rank 10 will have the skills he needs , runes etc and know what to do on some maps as r0's usually dont. if u wanna struggle with a r0 that dosent have skills or stuff for hours thats your own decision.

Holly Herro · Nov 03, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

I am making a lot of assumptions in this post, and Im eating atm so sorry if I rush and alienate someone

You can seperate high rank players into two categories.
Farmers //may or may not be good
Good Players // they know what they are talking about

You can seperate low rank players into two categories
Want to be Famers // getting there
Want to be Good players //working for it

Now, niether the farmers or the want to be farmers care, they will just play some gimmick or FoTM build and get fame/ HoH chest drops. The want to be farmers are still relativly new, say 0-6 months into the HA arena, and still figuring out whats up. Dont hear too much QQing from them really.]

The good players, they dont care, they will run whatever they want, win or lose meh, these guys want fun matches, and want to roll over famers and noobs with better tactics / strategies (a lot of the fun went away when most of the maps changed to simple annihilation maps btw; 4 of the same objective ftl)

Now, the want to be good players is the group you will hear most of the QQing from. These guys want to be able to compete at a high level, yes they want fame, but they want it at the rate good players get it. The biggest problem for them is the learning curve to get there. The whole point of thier QQing is they want the fame income the good players have, without learning how they do it. They want to jump straight from novice to expert.

The other lousy thing is that you have to keep playing HA regurly to stay good. I quit HA for a awhile after they added alliance battles to it. Getting back into the game, and now im a nearly r10 want to be good player. (so much for rank eh).

And then a lot of it is player limitations.
You can only develop your skill o so far.
Experience can only condition you o so much.

You read my mind.

And I am one of them low ranked players. I'm only low ranked because I GvG way too much :P

My current HA fame is 59... I'mba go get some more now. Or try =]

shoogi · Nov 15, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Rank discrimination isn't an issue because pugs fail no matter what rank they are. That's what you (you=low rank people willing to rank up) ought to understand. Yes, the r9 pug will be more successful than the eu dis random pickup but a good guild group that knows what it's doing should have no problem defeating a higher rank pug. If you want to get good at HA then-
1. GET A HA GUILD, or a stable friend list group. Even if they are all 13 year old r1's, as long as they want to improve and are tolerable people. Preferrably join a guild with people that you know, since pug guilds that recruit random people by their rank in id1 fail too.
2. DON'T PLAY FOTMS. Make sure that the guild doesn't run cheap gimmicks. Cheap gimmicks will earn you fame, but they won't teach you how to play. And don't use the rank discrimination as an excuse for using cheap gimmicks ("I have no choice, there's nothing else at my rank"). That's why you joined a guild. Balanced builds are good for start, as they are a good practice.
3. AVOID PUGS. Try to play with people you know as much as possible. Be it your guild or friends. Pugs are unorganized, and therefore don't contribute any real experience. You might have to pug a bit to know good players, so an organized friend list group can be formed.
4. BE PATIENT. There is no magic that will make you as good as a r11. Seeing similarly ranked people like you that earn much more fame because they farm fotms will be annoying but don't let it seduce you. There is also the problem of the time it takes to form a groups, but an organized guild shouldn't face that problem.

red orc · Nov 15, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

Rank discrimination isn't an issue because pugs fail no matter what rank they are. That's what you (you=low rank people willing to rank up) ought to understand. Yes, the r9 pug will be more successful than the eu dis random pickup but a good guild group that knows what it's doing should have no problem defeating a higher rank pug. If you want to get good at HA then-
1. GET A HA GUILD, or a stable friend list group. Even if they are all 13 year old r1's, as long as they want to improve and are tolerable people. Preferrably join a guild with people that you know, since pug guilds that recruit random people by their rank in id1 fail too.
2. DON'T PLAY FOTMS. Make sure that the guild doesn't run cheap gimmicks. Cheap gimmicks will earn you fame, but they won't teach you how to play. And don't use the rank discrimination as an excuse for using cheap gimmicks ("I have no choice, there's nothing else at my rank"). That's why you joined a guild. Balanced builds are good for start, as they are a good practice.
3. AVOID PUGS. Try to play with people you know as much as possible. Be it your guild or friends. Pugs are unorganized, and therefore don't contribute any real experience. You might have to pug a bit to know good players, so an organized friend list group can be formed.
4. BE PATIENT. There is no magic that will make you as good as a r11. Seeing similarly ranked people like you that earn much more fame because they farm fotms will be annoying but don't let it seduce you. There is also the problem of the time it takes to form a groups, but an organized guild shouldn't face that problem.

The problem here is in step 1.
I was thinking the same thing and tried to get into a HA guild rank 3-6.
I joined one and it turned out they were running IWAY, I joined a second and they fell apart 2 days later. I joined a 3rd and they were worse than the avarage PUG by far. The 4th were trying to run Fire spikes. I did not join anymore and continued to PUG, until the time I got bored again of HA and returned to GVG.

Luca Firestorm · Nov 15, 2007, 11:18 PM // 23:18

I am a low rank player, r2 who played HoH for fun since Gw first came out. I have never ever gone to Halls and it would be nice if I got to run with sum of u, get sum tips :P.

P.S. Hopefully im that 1 out of 100.

the_jos · Nov 23, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

While it's kind of late, I'd like to share my thoughts on the OP.

I have about 0 HA experience (R1, I think).
I do have some GvG experience.
One thing I do know is that I'm bad at HA/GvG in general.

The reason?
Lack of experience.
I don't know the maps, don't know how they are played.
Don't know the common used builds (not talking FotM, but more general ones), don't have hours of experience on them.
Can't read the playing field.

How do I know this?
I meet higher ranked players on regular basis in my PvE guild when they decide to take a break from HA.
I see the easy they play their profession.
Sometimes talk with them about how to play certain builds.
How to react in certain situations (I played monk in PvP: how to decide what skill to waste on a diversion when needed, saving someone or let him die).

I would not even want to play with a high ranked team.
The reason is that I don't gain real experience that way.
I don't learn what mistakes lower ranked players make, how to prevent them, how to abuse them.

However, having the posibility to learn from a single high ranked player does add value.
We as guild did some HA/GvG almost a year ago with a former member of our guild (think he played PvP since he left us).
He told us a bit about general team positioning, taking advantage of the map, moving in range of a spike target without giving it away too much.

One of the reasons I don't play HA/GvG often is that I don't want to be the best all the time.
Don't care about bambi, wolfie, tigger.'
The only reason I would like more PvP experience is that it would make me a better player in general.

Even in my guild I meet 'elitism' sometimes.
Like some people refusing to team up with members of alliance guilds, because they are 'bad'.
I do understand it, but their reasoning is wrong.
I see a potential to develop a player (let him/her make most decisions and ask why), where they see someone that is not good enough.
But I also 'refuse' to help people progress when they clearly don't understand the game mechanics. I will explain them how they could handle it, but they have to figure it out themselfs. I'm not going to ferry them to the next spot when they are not ready.

To me, rank discrimination sounds fair, but general help from more experienced players is very appreciated.

wuzzman · Nov 23, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Well good to see low ranked players are taking this advice, HA is at its all time low ^_^.

Nadia Roark · Nov 23, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Well good to see low ranked players are taking this advice, HA is at its all time low ^_^.

Which is funny because if you asked any player at any previous point in time about HA they'd always say it's at an "all time low."

We're never satisfied. People are always going to whine about how "sucky" HA is. I haven't been in there in a couple months, but this crap is starting to get annoying. Every time I log into these forums someone else is whining about how HA is worse than its "ever been." Please.

Lord Natural · Nov 23, 2007, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

Which is funny because if you asked any player at any previous point in time about HA they'd always say it's at an "all time low."

That's how some players jack their e-peens; By commenting how bad HA competition is after they've left it. It's a feeble effort validate their rank, because they got it when HA was "good". As everyone knows, HA competition is fierce, top quality, the best ever, right until you get your desired rank and quit - after which it becomes a total scrubfest.

In realistic terms, pvp in general has been on a steady decline, due to decreasing activity. This isn't exclusive to HA. Sure, I'd love it if they'd remove the AB shit from HA and re-instate traditional altars, but realistically I don't think there'd be a huge influx of old players as a result. GvG has always been a pretty good barometer of pvp activity in general, and right now you've got teams waiting 20+ mins for a match sometimes.

Mental Leteci · Nov 23, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaCktiX

People can say rit spike was "Flavor of the Month," but it took some work to do it right. Imbalanced, yes, by all counts. But mindless like heroway and spiritway are? And by mindless, I mean the lack of a need for callers, tactics, etc. Rit spike was not a fame-farm build, because I've run horridly bad rit spikes that gained zero fame completely. It may have been easier to run than your standard balanced, but that's if you did it right.

Apple pie.

Your post makes no sense, you contradict your own theory. 1st you said it wasn't a fame farming build and then you say it's because you couldn't play it. Well, you can't farm fame with any of the "fame farming" builds if you don't know how to play them. Next time go and eat a huge apple pie before posting something.

P.S. Hi to all of you I know, haven't been online for like 6 months :**

wuzzman · Nov 23, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

back then when players said "HA is at a all time low" HA had 6 ID districts, and 6 different builds were being pugged. Now its 3 ID districts, 4 groups being made between them all, and 2 builds being pugged.

Master Ketsu · Nov 24, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

The problem is, every low rank player thinks he's that talented person who can keep up with people that have much more experience.

Ahh this is so true. I wish it wasnt, because it's made players paranoid of each other. No one trusts anyone in this game when it comes to people you dont know.

Wammos are always the most hilarious examples of this kind of crap. If I had an ecto for every super1337 Mending/HH/breeze wammo Ive ran into that thought they were Gods gift to this game, I'd have Obsidian for all 10 of my slots.

DreamWind · Nov 24, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

back then when players said "HA is at a all time low" HA had 6 ID districts, and 6 different builds were being pugged. Now its 3 ID districts, 4 groups being made between them all, and 2 builds being pugged.

And its only going to get worse. I think the entire point brought up by this thread takes a backseat to the even bigger issue of HA...the population of basically a joke now, and rank is a factor in that regardless of whether you think rank means anything or not. There is no comparison to Tombs or even the first appearance of HA.

There are a lot of factors involved in the decline of course, but one that I see getting smashed here is FOTMs. IMO, those builds WERE and ARE good for HA. Iway getting nerfed was one of the biggest original factors in HA's decline (along with 6v6 but thats another story). It was essentially the death of 90% of pugs.