Curse

AzNChicken · Jan 04, 2009, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Immolate / Meteor Shower / Death's Charge / Bed of Coals / Aura of Restoration / Fire Attunement / Assassin's Promise / Flame Djinn's Haste

15 Fire, 11 Energy Storage, 8 Deadly Arts, 2 Shadow Arts.

At least he isn't running the complete OMG SHADOW STEP POINT BLANK KILL KILL KILL build. Annoying to watch them die because kiting just isn't an option for them when engaged.

On the note about superior runes and all that - I feel that if my fast cast can take a shrine out just fine with 12 fire magic, then why not just keep the extra 75 health?

choclatedippednillawafer · Jan 05, 2009, 11:04 PM // 23:04

a dervish attempting to kill us. we were all touchers.

Jeydra · Jan 07, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzNChicken

At least he isn't running the complete OMG SHADOW STEP POINT BLANK KILL KILL KILL build. Annoying to watch them die because kiting just isn't an option for them when engaged.

On the note about superior runes and all that - I feel that if my fast cast can take a shrine out just fine with 12 fire magic, then why not just keep the extra 75 health?

Really! Post a screenshot then of you clearing the Elite Warrior shrine, or a Res Orb shrine defended by two NPC Monks, on Grenz / Etnaran using your Me/E fast cast nuker without taking an unbearably long time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

For someone playing to win your build leaves a lot to be improved.

Post suggestions, or I'll simply let the win record speak for itself.

@Tyla - Rodgort's Invocation = 25 energy with neither GoLE nor Glowing Gaze; Liquid Flame / Fireball do not deal enough damage, Flame Burst = PBAoE already present in Flame Djinn's Haste. The build is weak but not powerless in fights; Immolate is over a 100 damage with a significant part of it ignoring armor, and it gets spammed on recharge. In a powerplay situation (which is pretty much all the fighting the build does) having an Elementalist spamming Immolate will likely be decisive.

Bobby2 · Jan 07, 2009, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Post suggestions, or I'll simply let the win record speak for itself.

Fair enough.

[dark prison] > [death's charge]
A: Cover Hex
B: Snare

[meteor shower] without [glyph of sacrifice]
Camp bait.
imo drop [aura of restoration] for it and run Minor runes

bungusmaximus · Jan 07, 2009, 03:43 PM // 15:43

assassins promise is baed, mmkay.

But lol, as of late there seems to be a steady flow of IP sins all over AB, you can have tons of fun speccing against those because most of them are baed and just silly kids that wanna win by rolling their head on the keyboard.

Im talking curses and ineptitude mesmers mainly :P. Ineptitude is more fun because it prevents them from getting off trampling altogether

.

Tyla · Jan 07, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Rodgort's Invocation = 25 energy with neither GoLE nor Glowing Gaze; Liquid Flame / Fireball do not deal enough damage, Flame Burst = PBAoE already present in Flame Djinn's Haste. The build is weak but not powerless in fights; Immolate is over a 100 damage with a significant part of it ignoring armor, and it gets spammed on recharge. In a powerplay situation (which is pretty much all the fighting the build does) having an Elementalist spamming Immolate will likely be decisive.

PBAoE is also present in your Bed of Corals. The only difference is that this is spammable and usable against players in such instances - you're putting in an assist at certain scenarios.

AzNChicken · Jan 07, 2009, 04:46 PM // 16:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Really! Post a screenshot then of you clearing the Elite Warrior shrine, or a Res Orb shrine defended by two NPC Monks, on Grenz / Etnaran using your Me/E fast cast nuker without taking an unbearably long time.

Someone doesn't understand how much aoe effects NPCs, hell even some PCs, and how much damage can be made of it. But that's fine with me. Stick with your 450 hp and do the typical ele thing.

Jeydra · Jan 07, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

@Bobby2 -

Dark Prison = 10 energy cost for a snare that does not benefit you much. It doesn't even cover Assassin's Promise; you don't cast AP before you cast Dark Prison (standard chain is Meteor Shower -> Death's Charge -> Bed of Coals -> Assassin's Promise -> Flame Djinn's Haste -> Immolate anyone still alive). So Death's Charge > Dark Prison.

I've tried dropping Aura of Restoration for Glyph of Sacrifice, and it works, but it comes at a price. If you miss Assassin's Promise now you are incapacitated for an extra 30 seconds (which is considerable), and you no longer have a heal, so you're entirely reliant on your team's Monk following you around. It works, but it's a risk.

@Tyla - PBAoE is PBAoE is PBAoE, and is always a risk, as everyone knows. It is unlikely to be of much use in teamfights as well (since it's point-blank range). If you have to fight, the assists come from Immolate. As you might guess, Bed of Coals is not a spell to cast in teamfights, and neither is Meteor Shower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZNChicken

Someone doesn't understand how much aoe effects NPCs, hell even some PCs, and how much damage can be made of it. But that's fine with me. Stick with your 450 hp and do the typical ele thing.

If you can't post the screenshots, say outright that you can't. If you think I can't post the screenshots either, make a concrete statement and say I can't (except of course I can, or why would I be running this build?). Roll around in ambiguity if you so desire, but if you can't post the screenshots - and I'm fairly certain you cannot - then your build is inferior.

By the way, I didn't know a single Major rune drops you to 450 HP! Are you running some kind of super major rune or something

Bobby2 · Jan 07, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Bobby2 -

Dark Prison = 10 energy cost for a snare that does not benefit you much. It doesn't even cover Assassin's Promise; you don't cast AP before you cast Dark Prison (standard chain is Meteor Shower -> Death's Charge -> Bed of Coals -> Assassin's Promise -> Flame Djinn's Haste -> Immolate anyone still alive). So Death's Charge > Dark Prison.

1234567 plays ftl - and that's coming from an Assassin player. Even my chain isn't set in stone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I've tried dropping Aura of Restoration for Glyph of Sacrifice, and it works, but it comes at a price. If you miss Assassin's Promise now you are incapacitated for an extra 30 seconds (which is considerable), and you no longer have a heal, so you're entirely reliant on your team's Monk following you around. It works, but it's a risk.

Damn unimpressive heal if you ask me.

moriz · Jan 08, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

me/e fire nuker can clear the dual monk shrine in about 6 seconds. i've seen it done firsthand. not to mention, those buggers are damn nasty in an actual fight.

Jeydra · Jan 08, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Aura of Restoration is an unimpressive heal, but what else are you going to use?

@moriz - Can you post the screenshots? And while you're at it clear the Elite Warrior shrine too.

Bobby2 · Jan 08, 2009, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Aura of Restoration is an unimpressive heal, but what else are you going to use?

Nothing or [feigned neutrality].

distilledwill · Jan 08, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

My absolute favourite build atm is a Melandru's Ranger. Cripple a melee dude, whether it be assassin, dervish, warrior, IW mes, SS rit, dagger ele and so on, then run, run around and around and around them.

Also, Dolyak sig warriors, dancing juuuuuuust outside their reach is possibly the most fun I can have with my clothes on, and sometimes I'll take my clothes off, just for kicks.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I haven't made any (numerical, at least) claims, unless you mean the 100% win rate I mentioned on Grenz? Divine can vouch for me on that one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

EDIT: In an effort to see just how good I am at AB, I went ahead and played 10 matches today. The results - won 9, lost 1, 90% win rate. Map was Grenz

buh? I believe I may have missed something...

AzNChicken · Jan 11, 2009, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

If you can't post the screenshots, say outright that you can't. If you think I can't post the screenshots either, make a concrete statement and say I can't (except of course I can, or why would I be running this build?). Roll around in ambiguity if you so desire, but if you can't post the screenshots - and I'm fairly certain you cannot - then your build is inferior.

By the way, I didn't know a single Major rune drops you to 450 HP! Are you running some kind of super major rune or something

Yawn, why should I have to prove anything to you? You're the one getting bitchy and hostile again after I only suggested that at least you weren't running the typical E/A that people run.

Just take my word for it - I can understand what works and what's pointless. Honestly, why would someone go through the trouble of posting something which they feel would be suggestively better without knowing so firsthand? Especially if this thread alone is supposed to hold posts of those who should be above the common AB'er's mentality.

Krill · Jan 11, 2009, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Not to make AB too super serious but...

If ur running an AP nuker that does nothing else but nuke shrines, u may as well be going into AB with 3. It seriously so useless. Even a normal SH bar is a bit useless unless you have a reliable hammer war to abuse it.

So many better choices like a RoJ smite supporter or FC nuker that has hum sig and auspicious incantation + deep freeze. U don't need somone that clears any shrine in 5 seconds, you need a team that clears shrines reasonably quickly and kills other players. AP nuker doesn't add anything to the latter...

Jeydra · Jan 11, 2009, 07:33 AM // 07:33

@Bobby2 - I was going to try Feigned Neutrality before I realized it last 5 seconds at 2 Shadow Arts, and it wasn't reasonable to raise it much beyond 6-7 seconds, which still isn't a lot and I pretty much dismissed the idea altogether.

@distilledwill - I played 10 games on my own, which resulted in 90% win rate. I played some games (didn't count, but less than 10) with Divine, Jaden and Snuff, which resulted in 100% win rate.

@AzNChicken - You're free to say whatever you want, just that you not posting any screenshots and implying it's my problem makes me more inclined to do three things:

1. Not believe you.
2. Conclude that you are a troll.
3. Conclude that you are one of the common AB'ers with associated mentality ...

@arienrhode - Maybe, but I'm happy with the 90% win rate.

Krill · Jan 11, 2009, 07:59 AM // 07:59

You can win with anything in ab frequently.

What matters is if you still win when you have to carry your useless allies and winning on attack maps (keys and canyon for kurz, grenz and ancestral for suxon). You don't have to be super serious about the team build, but unless you're just dicking around, most people want to win for faction. You're basing a win rate off 10 games when most people that bother to post here have played thousands of AB's.

Tyla · Jan 11, 2009, 10:13 AM // 10:13

In a way, Jeydra is exposing stupidity on the side of players. Think about it, if 1/4 players have a win rate of 90%-100% in 10 games, then it's obvious something is fishy. That fish being terrible players... or teams of players pissing around. I have a feeling that this post is going to be taken as offense though.

Also, being serious about AB is like being serious about RA, FA or JQ. If you're seriously that serious about winning, have you considered playing something coordinated instead? It makes a shit load more sense to me.

Bobby2 · Jan 11, 2009, 10:36 AM // 10:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

@Bobby2 - I was going to try Feigned Neutrality before I realized it last 5 seconds at 2 Shadow Arts, and it wasn't reasonable to raise it much beyond 6-7 seconds, which still isn't a lot and I pretty much dismissed the idea altogether.

Energy Storage holds a lot of trash points imho. That said, you're Kurz, and I wont push you to take my advice.

Jeydra · Jan 12, 2009, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I've been thinking of seeing what my win percentage is on the disadvantage maps. Kaanai and Ancestral I don't feel like trying - because of the heavy disadvantage, and because I might find myself the only person in the game actually trying to clear the NPCs off the wall, and because I have to run back and forth and get kegs to open gates and all that, I really need good allies to achieve a respectable win rate here. As the only player in a group of random PuGs I might get 20-30% win rate. I dunno. Etnaran and Grenz are easier, although still disadvantaged. Judging from my experiences Monking for a friend of mine (who is, in my humble opinion, THE best AB'er in the game) then two players might suffice for ~80% win rate. As a single player of somewhat inferior skill ... well I still hope to score more than 50%, but I haven't tried.

The real problem right now though is a lack of motivation. Shortly after playing those 10 games I realized that it's possible to gain more faction from PvE and JQ, wherupon what reason is there to play AB? You have to get teams in AB and deal with the stupidly long wait timer while all you have to do is pick up Heroes and Henchmen and go vanquish some areas and not only do you get gold + items, you get more faction in unit time as well!

So while I still want to see how often I win on the disadvantage maps and perhaps try out Feigned Neutrality, I don't see myself playing AB in the immediate future, unless something new turns up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Also, being serious about AB is like being serious about RA, FA or JQ. If you're seriously that serious about winning, have you considered playing something coordinated instead? It makes a shit load more sense to me.

AB, FA, JQ and RA are all different kinds of PvP, with their own styles and techniques and gameplay. GvG and TA are both coordinated PvP, but they're completely different and appeal to completely different players. It's the same with me. Maybe you treat AB carelessly and play it for fun, I play it precisely because it is AB ... and with an emphasis to win.