Curse

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 07, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Toucher Team

yeah... people think it is soooo bad, and it is. Just people don't know how to counter it. Take out the crip should and run around till you win. It's so simple. Iway necro FTW.

Traveller · Oct 11, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Your usual day at Aspenwood, all gates broken, free route until Green.. but I find I'm the only one attacking the fort. What on earth are my teammates doing?

Then when I rez, I find them all clumped outside. What's going on?

Then it hits me. They have found a Defy pain tank, and are trying to take him out. There are 5 of them. One guy calls everyone on my team idiots and quits. I just stand there and laugh. 5 guys trying to take out a single Defy pain tank. (one of them has been killed by the tank here.)

I tried to tell them to leave him alone, but this is what one of them told me.

They can't.

They can't leave a Defy pain tanking wammo alone. Even though they spend half the match trying to kill him with 5 people.

They can't move on until he's dead.

Some determination. Too bad they aren't as determined about winning the match.

Tyla · Oct 11, 2008, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Traveller

big snip

So much fail...

Just.nl · Oct 12, 2008, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Noobest Action In AB:

I was with a friend doing AB, we saw a monk and he uses backfire on it. The monk is so stupid to spam his skill to heal himself.. He uses Mending Touch, then he saw he was getting attacked.. Then he uses heal skills on himself to heal him, but he was killing himself instead of healling

Jeydra · Oct 21, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Three of the most common AB mindsets:

1. I'm great at PvP. Therefore I'm great at AB. We lost because our teammates are bad.

2. AB revolves around capping. We were moving from one shrine to another when an enemy team ran past us. We fought them and rolled them in two minutes, then moved on to the next shrine. We're capping.

3. AB revolves around capping. We're 7 players moving from one shrine to another. We're capping. So why are we losing 5 shrines to 2?

I've seen so many otherwise competent PvP players who play HB / GvG / RA / TA / HA well but fail completely at AB - and have no idea that they fail. Since AB has clearly the largest number of bad players, they also tend not to take AB seriously, and happily put blame on losses on their allies. They say they win, and they take their wins as proof that they know what they're doing. It's the same as a mediocre player playing a mediocre bar in RA. He'll win sometime and his teammates will carry him to 10 wins, and then he'll think that his bar is good and he understands RA. Big deal, he missed the big picture. I've seen this attitude to AB happen all across the skill level, all the way up to players from guilds like Dark Alley.

AB is probably the most misunderstood of PvP formats, and I can quite safely say that more than 95% of people who claim they understand AB, actually don't. They might know the basics of it and know how to play it to a decent level, but fall far short of great play. They won't realize it and live in blissful ignorance though. And almost everyone who reads this post won't understand AB, but think they do, and will automatically put themselves in the 5% that understand it.

I had the good fortune of meeting up one day in AB with one of the best AB'ers around, and learned a fair bit of playing it with him. AB, while the least demanding of PvP formats, is unique in its own way and has its own strategies and tactics. A Mesmer can have extremely fast reflexes and twitch-interrupt Restore Condition, but if he has no idea who to interrupt in GvG he's still bad. That's the situation with many AB'ers. They're great at PvP in general, but they just don't understand AB.

****

So why am I posting this semi-rant here? Because it's an insight to the common AB'er, and to me at least, it is almost - but only almost, it can be exasperating too - funny watching all these good players claim they're good at AB.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 22, 2008, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

happily put blame on losses on their allies.

I usually flame the opposite side's guild teams on general chat. But that's just me.

Quote:

Three of the most common AB mindsets

The fourth one I think is: tab, click, tab, click, tab click,... enter battle.

Quote:

I had the good fortune of meeting up one day in AB with one of the best AB'ers around, and learned a fair bit of playing it with him.

Can you share what you learned?

glacialphoenix · Oct 22, 2008, 08:02 AM // 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I've seen so many otherwise competent PvP players who play HB / GvG / RA / TA / HA well but fail completely at AB - and have no idea that they fail. Since AB has clearly the largest number of bad players, they also tend not to take AB seriously, and happily put blame on losses on their allies. They say they win, and they take their wins as proof that they know what they're doing.

What else do they really have to gauge by, though? Because you can lose due to bad teams. You don't get to see the bars of those eight other allies that you're playing alongside. You don't know if the team next to you is remotely decent. Sometimes you do have trashy allies - the AB trolls who come in just to LOL at everyone else. You get leechers.

But I will agree that a lot of people assert that they're good without trying to improve themselves, and that it is very easy to pass the blame in AB. "Oh, we had leechers. Oh, the other team sucked. Oh, a couple of people left." Yes, these do affect people, especially in opposition maps. On the other hand, if you're Kurz and sitting pretty in Grenz/Ancestral, or Lux and sitting pretty in Etnaran/Kaanai, and you've just lost one person to, say, d/c... it just reeks of bad loser if you go, at the end of the match, 'Oh, but we were ONE PERSON SHORT, it's not a fair match!'

No, it isn't. You've got the map to your advantage, for one. --; Everyone makes mistakes, and I seriously doubt you're permanently at your best. Why not just own that you screwed up?

Byron · Oct 22, 2008, 06:08 PM // 18:08

One time this group of Suxons ran up to me. They were soon dead.

Oh, wait - that happens everytime. MUHAHAHA

KURZICK HONOR!

Snow Bunny · Oct 22, 2008, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byron

One time this group of Suxons ran up to me. They were soon dead.

Oh, wait - that happens everytime. MUHAHAHA

KURZICK HONOR!

Quoted for being the best post on Guru in at least 6 months

Div · Oct 23, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I've seen so many otherwise competent PvP players who play HB / GvG / RA / TA / HA well but fail completely at AB.

I am pro HB/GVG/RA/TA/HA/PVE/PVP/DEEP/URGOZ/DOA/UW/FOW how am I failing AB? HALP!

Quote:

I've seen this attitude to AB happen all across the skill level, all the way up to players from guilds like Dark Alley

Because it's so hard to get into a sold guild.

Jeydra · Oct 24, 2008, 05:44 AM // 05:44

I can't just share what I've learned, that's a bit too wide to ask and a fair bit to write on - and besides I see AB from the position of the Monk (which is pretty much all I've played) while the Elementalist needs the most skill. My friend never taught me to play Ele and all I can do is surmise from what I see him doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glacialphoenix

What else do they really have to gauge by, though? Because you can lose due to bad teams. You don't get to see the bars of those eight other allies that you're playing alongside. You don't know if the team next to you is remotely decent. Sometimes you do have trashy allies - the AB trolls who come in just to LOL at everyone else. You get leechers.

The obvious - win percentage. If you average 80% win percentage on Kaanai Canyon from the Kurzick side, that's obviously tremendous and means you're good. I have not kept track of the exact percentage of wins I get when I play with my friend, but I once estimated we win about 80% of the time on Etnaran Keys without syncing and two PuGs in our own team (most of whom fail). We made 6 consecutive wins on Kaanai from the Kurzick side once too before I had to stop, that was intense and fun (again with two PuGs on our own team, who weren't running ideal builds but did listen to commands).

I don't play with my friend all that much anymore; he reached R12 Kurzick and R12 Luxon recently and only plays AB less now (instead of everyday when he was concentrating on it - apparently his 3-man guild once reached 1.7 million stable faction).

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I am pro HB/GVG/RA/TA/HA/PVE/PVP/DEEP/URGOZ/DOA/UW/FOW how am I failing AB? HALP!

I don't think I've seen you in AB before, so I can't judge. I didn't mean you when I referred to Dark Alley, although I'm not sure if I should say who the person is.

If you do want to show me your AB skills though I'll be happy to play with you

Alleji · Oct 28, 2008, 08:52 PM // 20:52

I think my single awesomest noob encounter in AB was this:

I'm playing migraine. Ele attempts to cast <random 2-second aoe> on me. Interrupted. Then ele proceeds to cast meteor shower...

A 10-second cast.

At a target that can easily move away.

In the middle of an empty field.

With 10 pips degen on him.

Proper way to deal with that? Run up to him, /tiger, spin it around a bit, interrupt meteor shower at 9.5 seconds. Ele dies from degen shortly after.

Snow Bunny · Oct 28, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I don't think I've seen you in AB before, so I can't judge. I didn't mean you when I referred to Dark Alley, although I'm not sure if I should say who the person is.

If you do want to show me your AB skills though I'll be happy to play with you

Divine is hopeless at AB.

Divine, won't you ever learn that HB monks are good?

Moonlit Azure · Oct 29, 2008, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Oh lots o fail. But the most recent one is when I naked ab'd with my guild.

We were yelled at and threatened to be reported. Serious business?

zeth006 · Nov 13, 2008, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit Azure

Oh lots o fail. But the most recent one is when I naked ab'd with my guild.

We were yelled at and threatened to be reported. Serious business?

Reported for what?

[DE] · Nov 13, 2008, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Clever ranger thought he was clever.
Clever ranger tried to lure me into his base.
Clever ranger did not check his map.
Clever ranger ran into my base, instead of his.
Clever ranger not so clever.

tmakinen · Nov 13, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Maybe he was a double agent

But honestly, I've given up trying to figure out what (if anything) goes under the hood of the standard AB critter. I just go out and trash stuff.

Krill · Nov 14, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Clever ranger thought he was clever.
Clever ranger tried to lure me into his base.
Clever ranger did not check his map.
Clever ranger ran into my base, instead of his.
Clever ranger not so clever.

lol, that might have been me. A few weeks ago I was playing with a Luxon friend on Saltspray, making a fighting retreat into the base hoping a melee guy would get too close, only to be reminded I wasn't playing Kurz. Quite an epic fail maneuver that was.

Jeydra · Dec 23, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

I am pro HB/GVG/RA/TA/HA/PVE/PVP/DEEP/URGOZ/DOA/UW/FOW how am I failing AB? HALP!

I can't tell very well since I've only played with you on one map (Grenz), on the advantage side as well - but yesterday I played with Ensign on both sides of Ancestral (Luxon + Kurzick), so if I assume you play the same way as Ensign (pretty similar to be honest) then what I'd say:

1. Don't split up! Unless opponents are terrible splitting up means you're easier to roll. It didn't help that you guys were on Vent and I wasn't.
2. Don't pick fights you can't win! This really surprised me, there were times when I saw the number of red dots on the screen and thought to myself 'are we really fighting this?' and it seems we were. We tended to get wiped more often than win those fights, which means either I'm a terribad Monk or you're not playing seriously (this should be the easiest thing to carry over from knowledge of other PvP, I'm surprised it happened so much).
3. NPCs - you, Snuff, Ensign and Jaden all left NPCs alone. In the other style of play I learned, the NPCs you can take with you form a crucial link. It's how a capping team eventually rolls a rolling team. 4v4 the capping team has no chance, but capping team + 2x Elite Elementalists + 1x Elite Warrior would crush a 4-man rolling team.
4. The base. This applies only to what I saw Ensign do, since we didn't play on Ancestral. If you're on the disadvantage side, you've got to open the gates to the fortress as well as launch occasional raids to take the shrines. If you don't, then those two shrines would forever remain in the hands of the advantaged side, giving them a probably decisive advantage. Ensign never opened the gates or even attempted to kill the NPCs guarding them - but then he played Ranger. Another thing here, do not enter the base unless at least 2 doors are open. With the Luxons-can-use-Kurzick-teleporters bug fixed, there is no way to escape if the door gets repaired behind you, and getting stuck = death.
5. The Res Shrine. This applies primarily to what I saw Ensign do (you, Jaden and Snuff didn't make the same error - or else simply we had 4 players instead of me + Ensign). When attacking the Res Shrine you need sufficient force to overwhelm it quickly, or people will Res there and you will have spent time for nothing. I noticed Ensign places considerable priority on holding the Res Shrine, which is definitely a good thing (way superior than holding Battle Cry, what the heck). It's just that we didn't have enough firepower to take it easily.

Overall I surmise that the style of play you practice is primarily rolling-based, with capping inserted whenever a fight ends and you look for the next target. The style I am used to playing is primarily capping-based, with preferably no fighting at all except when picking off stray targets, or when capping shrines. The styles are really different, and we make different choices. Ensign for example chose to defend the Res Orb shrine a few times, also to stay and kill a Mesmer and Necro when I, if leading a capping team, would happily abandon both Res Orb shrine and the Mesmer / Necro and move on. I can't say which strategy is more effective right now. With Ensign we did lose a few games I'm fairly confident we could've won with the capping strategy, but with the 100% win rate while playing with you Jaden and Snuff it indicates the rolling strategy is at least as effective.

That said - we played on advantage maps, where it is arguably easier to roll people. Also we've used only two of the five maps. I still hope to play with you on Saltspray, Etnaran and Kaanai (especially Kaanai, which in my opinion is far and away more favourable to the capping strategy), although given how hard it was to get hold of your slippery form, I don't suppose I'll get the chance soon

PS: Small wonder people find Assassin's Promise so terrible in AB. The styles of play are completely different, and when I say a capping team (which is the one who uses AP) does not fight, it literally means they do not fight. When capping, if a team comes along to intercept you, you avoid them, or if feeling confident you run through them to the next shrine - not fight. And that's when AP not only works, it shines.

Bobby2 · Dec 23, 2008, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

PS: Small wonder people find Assassin's Promise so terrible in AB. The styles of play are completely different, and when I say a capping team (which is the one who uses AP) does not fight, it literally means they do not fight. When capping, if a team comes along to intercept you, you avoid them, or if feeling confident you run through them to the next shrine - not fight. And that's when AP not only works, it shines.

Meep.

...Your team goes off to cap a shrine
...Passing an enemy team on their way to cap a shrine

As I am reading it, your style of play does nothing more than break even with the enemy.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding...

...and it's just you who goes off to cap a shrine
...leaving the rest of your team in a 3v4 position and yourself an easy target

No?