Curse

Thats Too Bad · May 02, 2009, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Hey. Just wanted to share to the new glad peoples some tips to monking against these builds that depend purely on skill.

This is assuming that you are monking for these teammates (Team Arenas)

A hammer war
magebane apply
LC necro/dark escape

(If random arenas, your monking principles stay the same, just subsitute same armor lvls)

your bar:

TA: [Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Signet of Rejuvenation][Guardian][Cure Hex][Holy Veil][Return][Dark Escape]

RA: [Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Guardian][Mending Touch][Cure Hex][Holy Veil][Return][Dark Escape]

1. Throughout all the fighting, watching your positioning and getting the best one is incredibly helpful.
2. If you are going to fall low and the opposing team hasn't died or falling low on health, or you are stuck in a situation where you will fall low (your necro on LC + 2 cover hexes with 2 dmg pressure builds on him) signal retreat.
3. DIE IN A LOW SET PLEASE, shieldset if you dont have.

1st off: Balanced

O yeah. the most honorable build vs most honorable build.

[holy veil]
1. Ranger
2. Necro
3. War, unless hes WE Axe

Only use signet of rejuv and woh if ur maintaining veil on more than one person.
If LC sticks on your necro, you won't be able to remove it for 30 seconds it sticks. Faintheartedness on your ranger will kill his interrupts.

1. watch necro's rip ench, as soon as he casts it put patient spirit on your necro. This is a safe way of playing, in case your ranger fails to interrupt his rip ench.
2. Sit on your 40/40, use return/dark escape to escape from harm. Get good positioning, EVERYTIME watch enemy magebane's position before you use WoH. Guardian Necro as you see needed. Using WoH and Signet as much as possible will be rewarding in the long run.
3. Do not try to remove LC with veil + cure hex combo. Not only is it not worth it, it won't remove LC if hes hit with faintheartedness, or necro has LC on recharge. Hold out for 30 seconds, then veil up and remove LC when it hits again.
4. Switch in/out of Shieldset (low set if you have) and 40/40, to hide energy. If you keep your 40/40 up the whole time, ranger will debil you down. Switch to 40/40 only when you are using Cure Hex or WoH.

2. The infamous imba hexway

Cheah. This is where it gets most fun... not.

[holy veil]
1. ranger
2. you
3. war

1. Basically, its heavy degen from poison, bleeding, and LC, then a hexway spike when you get low. Signet and WoH'ing as much will be rewarding as usual.
2. Tell your ranger to interrupt necro only. Mesmer has mantra usually. Tell your teammates to ping Diversion. When you are diverted, Guardian can afford to get diverted, so dont hesitate to guardian under divert to get that heal in to save your teammate.
3. 40/40 up cure hex, 20% HSR staff for veil. Its a life saver when the mods trigger.
4. Do not let YOUR health go down below 50%. as soon as it does, you will be hit with LC, VoR, elunge pet, then backfire or divert as vor ends. If you did let it fall low, dark escape, heal up, and tell your teammates to fall back.
5. Shadowstep back and forth to escape the pet, save dark escape incase you get hex spiked.
6. Good luck. its a ***** fighting against hexways. Monks are allowed the best positioning with hexways because all of their teammates are ranged, so your teammates has to be good.
7. Bash the cancel cast button immediately if you get diverted, best to have the cancel cast key set as ~ (button left to 1).

3. A/D, 2 E/Me, Mo/W

Its a spike, good one at that. Spike frequency = 8-10 seconds

[holy veil]: none.

1. Your necro will get spiked first unless they wish to lose. Why? FF. It screws up their spike with DW removal, AND removes blind coming from the Pew Pew ele. Guardian him up as soon as they come through.
2. Tell your necro to not to dark escape for 1st spike. If they do spike you first tho, dark escape up and you should be fine.
3. The sin has a shadow step. He can fake the spike, keep that in mind.
4. When sin comes to you, guardian yourse.... NO, dont guardian your self, return out. Guardian belongs on Necro. If you do fail to guardian Necro and sin gets the best of you with faking a spike on u, necro should dark escape and all should be fine.
5. Patient spirit frequently, they are not pressure based. Have your teammates' health up high, it helps when they spike. Hold out, balanced should have no problem cutting through this build quick.

4. 2 Offence, 2 Monks

Long, painful battle.

[holy veil]: Don't

1. Their offence can include 2 R/W RaO Axe, 1 Hammer and 1 Axe, 2 Sin or rangersins, 2 Dervs. All do high pressure, as they are allowed to roam free at their best un-debuffed with pnh + WoH on their side. Its about which side's monks holds on longer.
2. RaO Axes have good damage, so dont underarrestimate. Dont let YOUR health go down below 50%, they can spike you with tons of Dchops and Agonizing chops and brutal strike x2. They go for either necro or you.
3. Hammer and Axe, probably the most lethal combo. They will train then release adren on one, and they can kill in one coordinated combo. Necro is usually the 1st to get spiked.
4. Sin/rangersins. Can be either moebius, palm, or shattering assault. When its Moebius + Palm Strike, your Guardian will save the day. If its Shattering Assault, thats where it gets annoying. RedBar your way out.
5. Dervs. Vow of Strength Spike, or just two D/E Wounding Strike. Both are lethal spikes that can kill in one combo. Basically same as Hammer and Axe, with no knockdown and faster spike frequency.
6. REDBAR! USING WOH AND SIG OF REJUV AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE WILL BE REWARDING! Guardian as your energy allows. Try not to patient spirit as much.

5. RideL

Extra strong spike, in return for being screwed if all is not dead.

[holy veil]: none.

1. Have your war and Ranger go out first. Necro or you will be priority spike targets. Patient spirit necro when they are about to hit.
2. Dark Escape up when they hit you. The longer you hold out, the more their health drops.
3. When you are knocked down, use patient spirit instead of WoH when you get up. Not only can you get KDed again, but they usually possess a couple leech signets.
4. 40/40 up unless you are falling low on health. Do not hesitate to spam patient spirit, the fight shouldn't last more than 20 seconds.

6. 3 E/Me, or 1 Nec+2E/Me

REDBARRING GOES HERE

[holy veil]:
none incase of 3 E/Me
Necro incase of a LC necro on other team
None incase of a PoD N/A on the other team.

1. Smart Tripple E/Mes pressure teams take some defense measures other than the selfish Distortion. Usually Blind or an anti melee hex from water or earth. Keep that in mind.
2. Dark Escape up when you are being hit with MORE THAN ONE eles. If you see Meteor being cast, patient spirit urself then run in a straight line. 25% IMS is enough to escape Meteor for some reason, unlike Wiki says.
3. WoH on 40/40. THIS IS KEY TO SURVIVING ELE PRESSURE. Dont patient spirit if you got no eles attacking you. Only use WoH and Signet or you will fall out of energy.
4. Incase of a Necro on other team, MAKE SURE your necro doesn't get LC'ed. He will usually be the 1st target. Anti-rip ench technique i wrote in "vs balanced" i wrote up on top applies here.
5. If you are LC'ed tho, quickly 40/40 heal, veil yourself then cure hex. Hopefully your ranger is smart enough to interrupt the second cover hex, so you should only have LC+1 cover hex on you incase they do decide to go after you.
6. If incase its RUGSway (Augury+Liquid x2), you should still Redbar your way, too much pressure to just patient spirit your way out (PS can also get PoD'd making it more painful). Just prioritize WoH on people that gets hexed, cuz they'll get spiked soon afterwards.
7. Note that RUGSway has TWO Augurys, so dont let ur guard down after they spike one.

7. 3 Melee, PnH Monk.

Decent pressure, then a spike on low hp target

[holy veil]: none.

1. Tell your ranger to call for guardian before he uses Apply poison. There will be a warrior on him at all times to prevent him from getting apply poison up again.
2. Guardian on necro, prot 40/40 it. They will move from unprotted to unprotted, so guardian up as ur energy allows.
3. Seeing their spike is key. They have 3 melee, so it should be easy to see all 3 moving into one target. Guardian the person theyre gonna spike. If its on recharge, 40/40 WoH him up.
4. WoH 40/40 and Guardian 40/40 is key here. patient spirit as least as possible.

8. Shovespike or Smite spike (W/A with 2-3 Mo/A)

Dont piss ur pants.

[holy veil]:
1. the person they spiked successfully
2. you and necro at beginning.

1. Patient spirit on ranger when they are about to hit.
2. Ranger is the most dangerous vs their build, interrupting critical spike skills.
3. Also when they are about to hit, maintain maximum casting range for ur teammates. Gives your teammates more time to kill, and lets you predict if ur gonna be spiked or not.
4. When they are about to spike, put ur 40/40 up. When they spike someone, use WoH as infuse on the person that gets shadowstepped.
5. If it seems like they'll spike u, shield set + dark escape and run straight but still maintain casting range of ur teammates.
6. They always run out after each spike. Whether you win or not will depend on how fast ur teammates kill, theyre always running themselves out.
7. Theres a couple opportunities to kill plenty of them, so theyre not invincible with their Dark Escape / Dash.
8. ONCE YOU GET A KILL, SIT ON THAT DEAD BODY, DO NOT GO ANYWHERE ELSE.
9. If you feel that you need to get more kills, have ur ranger sit on the dead body and rest go out.
10. Positions on maps... just places that wound not make them imba shadowstepping through walls/hills, ie flat area with not many obstacles.
11. Try to get them stuck in lava, ice, tar, etc.

Xeng Suey · May 02, 2009, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Awsome tips....!
I hope everyone who plays RA/TA reads it. Many many times teams fight in choking positions not allowing the monk to stay with an apropriate positioning spot(or spots). Other thing that its funny is the fact people think monks have innfinite energy, pushing forward to chokes 24/7. So this mini guide (or guide, or list of tips, w/e u wanna call it) is not only good for the monks.... its good for everyone!

ty for sharing

Thats Too Bad · May 02, 2009, 11:22 PM // 23:22

well i posted here cuz it includes RA aswell...

and ofc the other thing :P

House Silvermoon · May 03, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

well not a bad guide at all i must commend the effort it took to write this up.

Thats Too Bad · May 03, 2009, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Not rly, nowadays to get a good streak during non-newb hour i have to have all those memorized, so just wrote em off top of my head.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 03, 2009, 06:29 AM // 06:29

Thanks, i found some of it quite useful too.

urania · May 03, 2009, 10:51 AM // 10:51

someone's got too much time on their hands...and to make a long story short:

veil on u and usually ur melee if u see a mes, once u find out what it is drop (in case its not dom/illu migraine mes) or keep (fc water mes) veils depending on that~
veil on ur physicals if u see a necro or a fc water/illu ineptitude-or/and-clumsi mes (the latter is basicaly extinct)
veil on ur physicals (meaning the warr or whatever melee AND the ranger normally) and urself if u see necro+mesmer+packhunter ~ typical hexway
veil on no one if there's no mes or nec proffession in the opponent team, be it primary or secondary, or if the necs are not shutdown curse necs (no one cares about hexes in a toxic chill bar, for example). exceptions: caster sins with augury of death.

see? no wall of text needed

last but not least: for higher survivability, a mo/w balanced stance+bonnetis or anything with bonettis is advisable - balanced stance is esp useful vs hammer balanced teams, ride the lightning spikes (nasty shock+iron palm =p), shove spikes and so on~
a mo/a is nice and all, but yeah...not for beginners rly.

last but not least n2: always cover veils with vig spirit..or dont bother preveiling. it WILL get removed. hence why the bar given in the 1st post might work in RA, but in TA u are bound to lose without veil covers...if the opponent hexer(s) arent totally stupid, at least.
however, running dual multiple hex removals (ie. spotless mind+deny hexes) can also be a good substitute for carrying no veils or veils-with-no-cover builds. however, i personally prefer veils than no veils builds. less vulnerable for mesmer or any kind of hex-involving shutdown.

Thats Too Bad · May 03, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

the problem with mo/w is that people just keep atking you til they force ur stance out of u (causing you 5-10 energy loss) then go release adren on other peeps, Bonnetti's sometimes gives you 5 e... most wars in TA nowadays (during euro hour) are good enough to stop atking right when you put it up. Also gives you problems when ur trying to get away from that magebane.

problem with spotless is that non-noob necros/mezes will rip it... unless that bug is still in place? i think it got fixed.

Remove Hex? Havent tried that yet. My guess is it won't be worth it being that necro would have his hexes recharged if he 40/40'ed it.

and dont wry so much over ench removal, unless u got no interrupt on ur team.

Yeah i heard about Vig spirit and it being a great cover ench, but you see, mid game your energy won't allow you to keep it up on ur allies. Yes its a great anti pressure skill, but that energy is better placed on ur other skills. Hence why i have signet of rejuvnation.

oh, it took me 30 minutes...

StManTiS · May 04, 2009, 04:30 AM // 04:30

i've been using a similar build for awhile now (touch replaced with just a standard remove) and i must say the touch works a lot better (plus i can call it "i touch myself")

however i ALWAYS get raped by a Burn->KD type of thing, is there anything i can do to stop those deaths?

urania · May 04, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thats Too Bad

the problem with mo/w is that people just keep atking you til they force ur stance out of u (causing you 5-10 energy loss) then go release adren on other peeps, Bonnetti's sometimes gives you 5 e... most wars in TA nowadays (during euro hour) are good enough to stop atking right when you put it up. Also gives you problems when ur trying to get away from that magebane.

problem with spotless is that non-noob necros/mezes will rip it... unless that bug is still in place? i think it got fixed.

Remove Hex? Havent tried that yet. My guess is it won't be worth it being that necro would have his hexes recharged if he 40/40'ed it.

and dont wry so much over ench removal, unless u got no interrupt on ur team.

Yeah i heard about Vig spirit and it being a great cover ench, but you see, mid game your energy won't allow you to keep it up on ur allies. Yes its a great anti pressure skill, but that energy is better placed on ur other skills. Hence why i have signet of rejuvnation.

oh, it took me 30 minutes...

the trick is that if they keep attacking u, the tank, the others can do their job in peace.
not to mention even if u get 5 energy only from bonnis and if they stop attacking u, the goal was achieved.
as for vig spirit...its each player's preference, i guess. because of reasons posted above and a few more i know i could hardly play without it now.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 04, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

the trick is that if they keep attacking u, the tank, the others can do their job in peace.
not to mention even if u get 5 energy only from bonnis and if they stop attacking u, the goal was achieved.
as for vig spirit...its each player's preference, i guess. because of reasons posted above and a few more i know i could hardly play without it now.

I'm using your bar currently but i find that vigorous is hard to keep up when you're mashing woh and patient to keep your team alive (and praying not to get magebaned).

Bonneti's i find isn't very useful because usually after i hit it up the war targetswaps and i'm either forced to cast or just sit there doing nothing. Then he swaps back once im out of bonneti's and don't have a block stance charged.

Couldn't live without balanced though

valence · May 06, 2009, 12:13 AM // 00:13

If that meta breakdown is correct of you (i dont ta :<), I would recommend new monks and nec's to shield swap a lot.

It's amazing how much pressure can be reduced, against for example 3 fire eles. Yet neglected by so many players.

Jeydra · May 06, 2009, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Just curious, how do you keep up with the energy demands of 3 (!!) Veils vs. Hexway?

Also you missed one build, the 1x W/A, 3x Mo/A build that I haven't much idea how to Monk against, short of having specific counters (Infuse and Shielding Hands). It's like no matter what I do, the guy they target dies ...

360° · May 06, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Just curious, how do you keep up with the energy demands of 3 (!!) Veils vs. Hexway?

Also you missed one build, the 1x W/A, 3x Mo/A build that I haven't much idea how to Monk against, short of having specific counters (Infuse and Shielding Hands). It's like no matter what I do, the guy they target dies ...

Dshot works wonders against Shovespike.

Jeydra · May 06, 2009, 01:05 PM // 13:05

That's for a Ranger. What if you're a Monk?

dr love · May 06, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

i didn't know TA was so pro!
what do you do against shovespike though? that build is annoying

Captain Robo · May 06, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Maybe someday you'll translate this into English so the rest of us can read it.

Lux Aeterna · May 06, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

I really only play hammer war and I found this guide informative as I'm usually attentive to what my monk/ midline is doing etc.

What would you do against [backbreaker][ray of judgment] or [ride the lightning] spike builds? Is it possible to save x2 Roj ?

It's fun explaining monking to newer players, many don't understand that the 3 heals are for different purposes or haven't learned to avoid backfire/diversion with veil.

StManTiS · May 07, 2009, 01:14 AM // 01:14

my biggest problem as a monk is two palm sins or a palm sin and a ranger on me at the same time

Wish Swiftdeath · May 07, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

That's for a Ranger. What if you're a Monk?

Get a non retarded ranger, i'm serious - get a guildie or something, ditch that pug magebane