Curse

Wubbies · Dec 22, 2008, 03:43 PM // 15:43

Tune in next week as we will discuss the following :

Res Sig VS. Sunspear Rebirth Sig

You Decide!!

[DE] · Dec 22, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wubbies

Tune in next week as we will discuss the following :

Res Sig VS. Sunspear Rebirth Sig

You Decide!!

Res Sig vs. Sunspear Rebirth Sig is purely black and white.

Frenzy vs. Primal Rage is actually worth of debate considering the similarity of the two, along with the different amount of pros and cons they both come with.

Wubbies · Dec 22, 2008, 10:53 PM // 22:53

point is its beating a dead horse now i think every has said their opinion or is it gonna continue... and is it black and white and not grey?

Sirius-NZ · Dec 23, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Hm. I was interested in the thinking on this skill... one of the more interesting things to me is the perma 33% IAS which means the warrior can now keep up with the faster dervishes and assassins - but I wasn't sure whether the cancel stance issue would cause people to shelve it. Apparently not. Arkantos seems to be quite a fan, or maybe that's just the skill icon.

I guess at the least it'd be worth my giving it a try in AB sometime. Run speed is quite helpful there.

Rhamia Darigaz · Dec 23, 2008, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

I guess at the least it'd be worth my giving it a try in AB sometime.

it's hard to fully appreciate how good prage is if you run it in the less organized forms of pvp. try it in gvg and you'll love it.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 23, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Would love to... now all I need it enough guildies to GvG.

distilledwill · Dec 23, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

I guess at the least it'd be worth my giving it a try in AB sometime. Run speed is quite helpful there.

It is really quite useful in AB, although a lot of enemies won't kite away from you the constant +33% run speed is very useful for maintaining control over shrines. When I go with my alliance we tend to run with a natural stride ZB monk or at least a Ele with [["Make Haste!"] so that the monk can keep up. Makes for an extremely mobile team.

IXI Nine IXI · Dec 23, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

/sigh

I wish I hadn't read this thread. My new computer doesn't come for a few days and reading this makes me want to play GW's and try this out so bad.

I can't wait to try this skill out. It sounds awesome.

Also... I MISSED OUT ON THE PENIS SWORD!!!

Lourens · Dec 23, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Rush x Frenzy x Evis ...

nuff said

Arkantos · Dec 23, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lourens

Rush x Frenzy x Evis ...

nuff said

More like nothing said at all, really.

Killed u man · Dec 23, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

WHAT are you guys even arguing about?

Wether or not Primal Rage is a good skill, or wether or not it's better than Frenzy.

Let's discuss wether or not Dismiss is better than RC, shall we?

If you're here trying to discuss wether or not Primal Rage is a good elite, and/or better than Frenzy:

Primal Rage does EVERYTHING frenzy does, AND MORE. It's better than frenzy, so can we PLEASE drop that discussion?

Second, is it a good elite?
-Perma +33% IAS: Check
-Perma +33% IMS: Check
-Fast Recharge: Check
-Cheap: Check

I'll also draw out some other obvious thins here for the people that love to argue:

It's NOT bar compression. You STILL have to take a cancel stance, and if you have balls, that one will be frenzy. Regardless, you want from having 2 Stance control skills on your bar to having 2 stance control skills on your bar. That's not compression, that's simply improving the current set-up.

Third, and this is the reason why this thread fails, because this is the ONLY thing it really should be about (well, also nr 4 a bit, but i'll get to that in about 45 seconds): IS IT BETTER THAN OTHER OPTIONS?
NO, not by a long shot. WE is simply better.

MAYBE, and that's a HUGE MAYBE, if you were to be able to keep up your Primal Rage 24/7, THEN it MIGHT be a tad bit better than WE, and even then... (Cuz if you assume you can keep PR up, you can also assume the WE can frenzy 24/7, and assuming he can hit some decent bulls)

Last but not least, nr4:

PR's drawback: the double damage. This kills the skill for me. With the caster spike meta, the still very popular WE around, the double damage just completely makes this skill useless against any half decent team. You won't be able to PR away (it's called backline, aswell as caster spike), so you'll have to be in Rush alot, and then PR whenever you got a small window (straight AFTER an enemy spike or something). Even then, it's most likely you're going to use Bulls at that oportunity to try and get a spike of yourself. Regardless, in this meta You're simply better of with Frenzy, and then any other elite of choice. (I'm NOT saying Frenzy is better, I'm saying that taking an OTHER elite than PR is better in this meta)

tl;dr:

PR is only a good skill, and better than other options, if you manage to pretty much keep it up 24/7. This is really unlikely against a half decent team, so you're simply better of taking WE or Evis... (Unless you know you're gonna face hexway/bspike without dmg skills, only vamp)

moriz · Dec 23, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

primal rage.

because you sacrifice a slot for warrior's endurance.

RotteN · Dec 23, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

warrior's endurance > primal rage

i'd rather have a stable damage output than a speedboost on my frenzy.

scruffy · Dec 23, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

i hear sword warriors do lots of damage nowadays

Rhamia Darigaz · Dec 23, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

WHAT are you guys even arguing about?

Wether or not Primal Rage is a good skill, or wether or not it's better than Frenzy.

Let's discuss wether or not Dismiss is better than RC, shall we?

If you're here trying to discuss wether or not Primal Rage is a good elite, and/or better than Frenzy:

Primal Rage does EVERYTHING frenzy does, AND MORE. It's better than frenzy, so can we PLEASE drop that discussion?

Second, is it a good elite?
-Perma +33% IAS: Check
-Perma +33% IMS: Check
-Fast Recharge: Check
-Cheap: Check

I'll also draw out some other obvious thins here for the people that love to argue:

It's NOT bar compression. You STILL have to take a cancel stance, and if you have balls, that one will be frenzy. Regardless, you want from having 2 Stance control skills on your bar to having 2 stance control skills on your bar. That's not compression, that's simply improving the current set-up.

Third, and this is the reason why this thread fails, because this is the ONLY thing it really should be about (well, also nr 4 a bit, but i'll get to that in about 45 seconds): IS IT BETTER THAN OTHER OPTIONS?
NO, not by a long shot. WE is simply better.

MAYBE, and that's a HUGE MAYBE, if you were to be able to keep up your Primal Rage 24/7, THEN it MIGHT be a tad bit better than WE, and even then... (Cuz if you assume you can keep PR up, you can also assume the WE can frenzy 24/7, and assuming he can hit some decent bulls)

Last but not least, nr4:

PR's drawback: the double damage. This kills the skill for me. With the caster spike meta, the still very popular WE around, the double damage just completely makes this skill useless against any half decent team. You won't be able to PR away (it's called backline, aswell as caster spike), so you'll have to be in Rush alot, and then PR whenever you got a small window (straight AFTER an enemy spike or something). Even then, it's most likely you're going to use Bulls at that oportunity to try and get a spike of yourself. Regardless, in this meta You're simply better of with Frenzy, and then any other elite of choice. (I'm NOT saying Frenzy is better, I'm saying that taking an OTHER elite than PR is better in this meta)

tl;dr:

PR is only a good skill, and better than other options, if you manage to pretty much keep it up 24/7. This is really unlikely against a half decent team, so you're simply better of taking WE or Evis... (Unless you know you're gonna face hexway/bspike without dmg skills, only vamp)

you, like too many people, overestimate how often you have to cancel prage due to dmg and underestimate how often you have to cancel frenzy due to kiting

Symbol · Dec 23, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

If the other team is spending a lot of time hitting your warriors out of frenzy/prage then you're winning anyway.

_Nihilist_ · Dec 24, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

^
QFT.

I don't PvP much, but when I do, I *rarely* have to cancel my Frenzy because I'm taking damage, unless I'm in RA and the opposing team decides to try and drop me first cuz they don't like having a Hammer Warr permanently attached to their butt cheeks, maul-first. I always have to cancel on target kite.

Greedy Gus · Dec 24, 2008, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I'll also draw out some other obvious thins here for the people that love to argue:

It's NOT bar compression. You STILL have to take a cancel stance, and if you have balls, that one will be frenzy. Regardless, you want from having 2 Stance control skills on your bar to having 2 stance control skills on your bar. That's not compression, that's simply improving the current set-up.

You would be right if all stances did the same two things. If you still bring a run buff as your cancel stance, then you're not getting any bar compression. However, there are other stances that add dimensions to your bar, such as self-defense, self-healing, etc. While a lot of these would be pretty niche, the easiest slot-in is disciplined stance.

Shmanka · Dec 24, 2008, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

More like nothing said at all, really.

I would actually differ from some opinions here but lets go:
Primal Rage gives and delivers alot more pressure, this is just a known fact on the basis of the 2 in 1 package the skill delivers.

Yet its power is its own weakness. Attempt splitting with this warrior, wont go well at all, your only run buff is going to feed Elementalist and Ranger damage. That being said so much ranged damage in the metagame doesnt make this skill have easy cancellation.

The fact it is also an elite slot makes it lose spike power. So in reality, he said ALOT. Eviscerate KILLS. Spamming Dismember never did. Other skills need to fuel the power such as Warriors Endurance Skill Templates.

I think this is a GOOD skill (definitely compared to before), and in the correct METAgame this can flourish. That does not make it a staple however, while Eviscerate always will be.

Greedy Gus · Dec 24, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

The fact it is also an elite slot makes it lose spike power. So in reality, he said ALOT. Eviscerate KILLS. Spamming Dismember never did. Other skills need to fuel the power such as Warriors Endurance Skill Templates.

I'd say you're overestimating eviscerate. Deep wound does the lion's share of any warrior spike, and calling for team support to coincide with that deep wound is what KILLS. Eviscerate doesn't do anything magical; it adds 29 damage to the 100 HP reduction of the deep wound and the armor-penetrating axe swing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

I think this is a GOOD skill (definitely compared to before), and in the correct METAgame this can flourish. That does not make it a staple however, while Eviscerate always will be.

Eviscerate is only a staple because it has no downside, will always be a solid skill, and warriors have loads of great utility options to fill a bar with when you can fullfill your core duties (deep wound, enough +damage to provide spike & pressure ability, and sufficient stancing) with very few skill slots. In this light eviscerate itself is bar compression compared to hammer & sword. You should really never have it in your mind that you're running axe for eviscerate...you want to play axe because it allows the most utility slots to be filled based on preference and build needs, and eviscerate is a means to get to that end.