Curse

The Blade From Hell · Dec 17, 2008, 06:30 PM // 18:30

@ ac1inferno, no where in any gvg games do people automatically hit you when u click frenzy, this is the most absurd statement ive heard and people get spiked in frenzy bout twice in an entire game. Primal Rage is not about escaping with it on but that while your dealing damage with it the damage is effectively multiplied by the added movement. I hear giving warriors prots when they get spiked is good?. As for rush having the same effect and being the cancel who gives a shit? this is unrelated to the elite being good or bad lol... Top players use it not because theyre good, because the skill is good, there is no reason for top players to go into games hindered meaning they probably know something you dont?

snaek · Dec 17, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

@ac1inferno

wars r in frenzy at least more than 50% of the time (at least, many like to spam)
why would it be any less if they used primal rage?
if anything it should allow for more uptime than frenzy allows

stop talkin bout how ur gonna "cancel it anyways"
u sound like wars r only gonna get 10% uptime wit this skill

Kyp Jade · Dec 17, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

this thread just shows how bad some people are. calling prage a bad skill is calling frenzy a worse skill

phan · Dec 17, 2008, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

It's not a good skill. It's a decent skill if it wasn't elite, but because it is, it's bad.

I lolled ; so an awesome frenzy is just a decent skill ?

nuub!

Arkantos · Dec 17, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

I lolled ; so an awesome frenzy is just a decent skill ?

nuub!

Primal rage is decent, and frenzy is meh.

Barkeep · Dec 17, 2008, 11:33 PM // 23:33

ac1inferno, you make some fair points. However, I believe you overlooked one important aspect of the shock axe build. You are completely right that you still need to cancel Primal Rage with Rush if you are being attacked, and if you are being attacked you'll have no adventage of the 33% speed buff on Primal Rage. The thing you overlooked though, from my perspective, is that warriors often cancel frenzy not because they are being attacked, but because they need to chase a target, need to swop to a new target, or need to move to a different location in general. In those situations a warrior could just stay on Primal Rage and still have the nice 33% IAS to kill stuff.

This is also part of the 'save-energy issue'. If you use frenzy, attack a target several times, it kites away, then rush to it, KD it and frenzy again to get some quick hits in. You've used up 10 energy on frenzy where in the same situation you'd be using only 5 on Primal Rage.

Believe it or not, there are teams that do not attack the warrior 24/7.

Reverend Dr · Dec 17, 2008, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

Be a man ; use frenzy as a cancel stance for primal rage

I'm still upset that no one caught the old shock charge sword with only frenzy as a stance when I said manliest bar. Either that, or they don't remember when all the Koreans ran Frenzy without a cancel stance.

Primal Rage is really good, but there is so much just shit in the meta that it isn't going to properly shine until something is done about the rest of the crap. IF the rest of the crap gets delt with, I suspect primal rage will then be a bit overpowered, but more of an acceptable overpowered like Word or RC.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 18, 2008, 01:49 AM // 01:49

This discussion is rather one-sided, so new topic:

WE vs Prage

Discuss

ac1inferno · Dec 18, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

My point (and I think yours too from the last paragraph) is that it makes bad warriors like me somewhat respectable - which means that the ones who think it's an awful skill are really bad.

People who think [[Primal Rage] is an awful skill doesn't mean they are really bad. There's just no point in using Primal Rage if you are all ready a half decent Warrior. If this skill makes bad Warriors somewhat respectable, that doesn't mean it makes somewhat respectable Warriors good. A half decent Warrior can all ready deal with kiters and land knock downs with [[Bull's Strike] easily without using this skill so it becomes a wasted Elite. They can do so much more with another Elite.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

This discussion is rather one-sided, so new topic:

WE vs Prage

Discuss

[[Warrior's Endurance] is strong for spamming [[Power Attack]. I do not like [[Primal Rage] because I believe it is inferior to [[Frenzy] and would never waste my Elite on it. With that being said, I would always use Warrior's Endurance over Primal Rage.

scruffy · Dec 18, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

primal rage isnt inferior to frenzy obviously because primal rage does the same thing + more, hes just trying to say he doesnt think its worth using an elite on something that you can already manage fine without,frenzy and rush, especially when you have bulls strike.

last of master didnt rely on spamming frenzy to make pressure with that bar, and he only used it very sparingly when he was sure it was worth the bang for his buck

Marxon Aurion · Dec 18, 2008, 10:29 AM // 10:29

A Primal Rage will definitely amplify a good warrior as well too be honest, because you only have to cancel out against damage. Now you can hit criticals and attack faster while chasing an enemy, that is pretty good.

deluxe · Dec 18, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Primal Rage was a decent game, I had it on my Sega.
It's also a pretty good skill in Guild Wars.

Tyla · Dec 18, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

People who think [[Primal Rage] is an awful skill doesn't mean they are really bad. There's just no point in using Primal Rage if you are all ready a half decent Warrior. If this skill makes bad Warriors somewhat respectable, that doesn't mean it makes somewhat respectable Warriors good. A half decent Warrior can all ready deal with kiters and land knock downs with [[Bull's Strike] easily without using this skill so it becomes a wasted Elite. They can do so much more with another Elite.

Bull's Strike is a great skill, but that's not to say that it's going to land 100% of the time. It can be faked out, and also has a recharge of 10 anyway. Primal Rage allows you to catch up to enemies with an IAS and bypass that during its recharge or if you miss it. It amplifies the strength of your Warrior bar heavily either way.

bungusmaximus · Dec 18, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I would like to try it in AB, yesyes, that would be ownage ^^. In AB pr actually IS bar compression because I don't have to take the extra run skill and put in something else (conjure? lol)

Shendaar · Dec 18, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

People who think [[Primal Rage] is an awful skill doesn't mean they are really bad. There's just no point in using Primal Rage if you are all ready a half decent Warrior. If this skill makes bad Warriors somewhat respectable, that doesn't mean it makes somewhat respectable Warriors good. A half decent Warrior can all ready deal with kiters and land knock downs with [[Bull's Strike] easily without using this skill so it becomes a wasted Elite. They can do so much more with another Elite.

You make it sound like the "good" warriors are not affected by kiting and can land bull's 100% of the time. The fact is landing a bull's against good players is much harder and they also tend to kite better too. PR will definitely amplify any warrior's ability regardless of his skill level.

The best way to deal with kiting imo is by quarterstepping(chiizu dancing) and when combined with PR, it becomes even more effective. I really don't see how Evis allow a warrior to "do so much more" when Primal Rage is the more versatile skill lol.

I Angra I · Dec 18, 2008, 06:39 PM // 18:39

I don't think the people in this thread saying primal rage is "bad" really mean that it's worse than frenzy, or anything silly like that. What they mean is that it's just not as useful as other elite options.

I've only used the skill a couple times still honestly, but from what I've seen, warrior's endurance is still more useful for a lot of things. It still pressures better (pressure, nice joke amirite) and can still spike with big damage with more frequency when combined with a pewpew ranger also.

And when you're going for a bigger, slower spike evis or conjure evis is still going to be better obviously cause of the +damage.

PR is an alright skill, as it should be since it's elite, I just don't find it more needed than warrior's endurance or eviscerate still.

Shendaar · Dec 18, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

There are pros and cons to all the templates and depending on your play style and team build one may be better for you than the other. I personally prefer PR over Evis as it give you an even more versatile template at the cost of a small damage reduction on your spike. Evis gives you a stronger spike if everything lands, but you also have to remember that PR makes spiking without KD(bull's)a lot easier. Although it is not really important in this meta, PR will also pressure better than a Evis bar, even with the reduction in spike damage.

Warrior's endurance can definitely give PR a run for its money, but to me, PR is superior to a Evis template in almost every way.

ac1inferno · Dec 19, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Bull's Strike is a great skill, but that's not to say that it's going to land 100% of the time. It can be faked out, and also has a recharge of 10 anyway. Primal Rage allows you to catch up to enemies with an IAS and bypass that during its recharge or if you miss it. It amplifies the strength of your Warrior bar heavily either way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

You make it sound like the "good" warriors are not affected by kiting and can land bull's 100% of the time. The fact is landing a bull's against good players is much harder and they also tend to kite better too. PR will definitely amplify any warrior's ability regardless of his skill level.

The best way to deal with kiting imo is by quarterstepping(chiizu dancing) and when combined with PR, it becomes even more effective. I really don't see how Evis allow a warrior to "do so much more" when Primal Rage is the more versatile skill lol.

[[Primal Rage] gives minor utility. Replacing my [[Frenzy] with it means I lose my attack elite. I am barely able to tell the difference between Frenzy+[[Rush] and Primal Rage+Rush. So it is just a wasted elite. It's basically like going into battle without an elite.

Yes, I get a speed boost, I can use it out of combat all right, but in combat, it's exactly the same as Frenzy, the speed boost is only a minor advantage, because yes, I'll catch up with kiters, but people will hit me. It doesn't matter if I have to cancel Frenzy, because it's not elite, but Primal Rage is. The speed boost means nothing to me since I will need to cancel it anyways so the movement buff is not worth the elite, and my cancel stance is a speed boost. I would not waste my elite on a speed boost while attacking that has to be canceled once I'm going to get hit.

I will admit that when I'm not under attack, Primal Rage is great. I can infinitely chase down targets and kill them quickly. It's like having Frenzy and Rush up all the time. But in real PvP, anyone that sees me using this, and I have to cancel, so that completely negates the speed boost. This would go for Frenzy too, but the thing is having to keep a non elite skill down isn't that bad, but having to keep my elite skill down is. I would prefer [[Eviscerate].

Reverend Dr · Dec 19, 2008, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Evis -> Dismember
Frenzy -> Primal

Lose ~23 damage on DW application. This is a significant loss, but the extra pressure gain from the speed boost is also great. While the spike is less powerful a primal warrior can dismember - Body blow at 7 adrenaline instead of the 8 required for eviscerate.

Quote:

the speed boost is only a minor advantage, because yes, I'll catch up with kiters

No, you won't, unless you rush then frenzy again. Frenzy, rush, frenzy in the span of 4-5 seconds is not uncommon because without a speedboost a kiting target will negate 100% of your damage.

Quote:

The speed boost means nothing to me since I will need to cancel it anyways

You are a poor warrior. Most frenzies are canceled not to prevent damage, but to get the speed boost of rush. I guess no one remebers the days of Evis + SwordCharge, the frenzy with +movement made warriors that tore up the battlefield. Yes you do cancel frenzy to avoid taking massive damage, but that doesn't come up nearly as often as you think it does. A warrior that cancels often out of fear of being attacked is much less of a threat and midliners love when enemy warriors will switch stance at the slightest nudge; those use adrenaline for the switch, gain less adrenaline, use more energy to refrenzy, and are generally much less of a threat.

Quote:

I will admit that when I'm not under attack, Primal Rage is great.

Then its great for more than 95% of the match. Explain to me how evis is better when you are under attack. Didn't you just hit your cancel stance so you are one adrenaline short of using it anyway?

ac1inferno · Dec 19, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

...

Are you reading only the text you want to read and ignoring the rest? I gave reasons why I don't like [[Primal Rage] and would never use it over [[Frenzy].