Curse

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 12, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Have you ever played HB Mitch? What placing did you make in the HB mATs? What rank are you on the ladder, and what's your win-loss record?

I played a couple of matches before there was a ladder for it before I decided it was retarded and a waste of time, every HB match I've observed since then (which admittedly weren't that many) has strengthened my original findings.

Jeydra · May 12, 2009, 10:21 AM // 10:21

No offense but that makes you sound exactly like the kind of person Izzy would want to keep out of a HB balance forum, were there one, and suspiciously similar to Killed. You have no real HB experience, never played HB at competitive level, all you have are what you glean from Obs, what makes you think you are qualified to comment on HB balance?

Now I'll say myself that I don't have much HB experience either, but from secondhand info I claim you wrong. Hero AI may be dumb at times, but you have this thing called micro. The top players on the ladder regularly micro over half the skills on their hero bars; in fact one of my top-100 HB friends once told me that the #1 player - don't remember who it was, but apparently has quit GW - used to be able to micro every single skill AND every weaponswap on every hero. Call that skill? I certainly do. If ANet paid more attention to HB it could certainly be a competitive PvP format, although of course since it's just one player on both sides it would be less attractive to obs.

Morgoth the dark · May 12, 2009, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

I've also won more silver capes than just about anyone else in this game running a wide variety of different builds, whereas if sources are correct, the only thing you're 'known' for is running ritspike on ladder and being top 100 for a month or two ages ago.

ahahahahahaha

Well... tbh, borat is way more reknown than you will ever be, bad luck. That's beside winning a gold cape with w/a spike. But that's all other story...
And about HB... you've played max 10 matches and you can exactly tell what's wrong with the format? Shure you do.

I really hope this balance will be good, so fun builds can again pop out.

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 12, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

No offense but that makes you sound exactly like the kind of person Izzy would want to keep out of a HB balance forum, were there one, and suspiciously similar to Killed. You have no real HB experience, never played HB at competitive level, all you have are what you glean from Obs, what makes you think you are qualified to comment on HB balance?

There actually is such a forum and I don't post there for exactly that reason (well that and because I really couldn't care less about the game type).

Where did I ever comment on HB balance? The only thing I said about it is that it's a flawed concept for a competitive gametype as it relies for a large part on hero AI which is at the very least 'lacking'.

Quote:

The top players on the ladder regularly micro over half the skills on their hero bars; in fact one of my top-100 HB friends once told me that the #1 player - don't remember who it was, but apparently has quit GW - used to be able to micro every single skill AND every weaponswap on every hero.

When a hero bar consists of a bunch of AoE skills or a bunch of pet buff skills and a self heal though what kind of micro is really involved in this? To my knowledge most people either run around and cap with teleports or jump shit with a (backbreaker) assassin and get kills by KDing people and spamming AoE skills on them.

Weapon swapping on heroes can only be done from inventory so I really doubt theres a lot of weapon swapping going on except maybe swapping to the right type of shield when you see your opponent's build.

Quote:

Call that skill? I certainly do. If ANet paid more attention to HB it could certainly be a competitive PvP format, although of course since it's just one player on both sides it would be less attractive to obs.

Maybe if the hero AI and pathing was a little less retarded, but seeing as how it isn't your argument is irrelevant.

Also my point was that GvG is the 'endgame' competitive PvP type, which is what skills should be balanced around primarily. Anyone that says otherwise is deluding themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

Well... tbh, borat is way more reknown than you will ever be, bad luck.

Renown* and if you're talking about Sacha Baron Cohen then I'm sure he is, if you're talking about the ritspiker then I very much doubt it.

Jeydra · May 12, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTALMITCH

Where did I ever comment on HB balance? The only thing I said about it is that it's a flawed concept for a competitive gametype as it relies for a large part on hero AI which is at the very least 'lacking'.

My bad. But you did say HB cannot be a competitive gametype without playing it, which is like IanBoyd teaching others to GvG even though he doesn't have the game, or like writing a book on how to drive without having a driving licence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTALMITCH

When a hero bar consists of a bunch of AoE skills or a bunch of pet buff skills and a self heal though what kind of micro is really involved in this? To my knowledge most people either run around and cap with teleports or jump shit with a (backbreaker) assassin and get kills by KDing people and spamming AoE skills on them.

People run the R/P bar because it takes less micro and so you can devote attention elsewhere.
It takes micro to cap effectively. If you disagree I challenge you to beat a good player in HB without micro.
Heroes are dumb and don't move out of AoE for a few seconds, so you can micro AoE and deal damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTALMITCH

Maybe if the hero AI and pathing was a little less retarded, but seeing as how it isn't your argument is irrelevant.

Also my point was that GvG is the 'endgame' competitive PvP type, which is what skills should be balanced around primarily. Anyone that says otherwise is deluding themselves.

You can move your heroes step by step, you know. In fact the top players do this all the time. See matches on Desert Sands for example, someone might bodyblock a hero from moving, but then it won't be very long before his opponent moves his hero manually to avoid it.

Maybe GvG is the "endgame" competitive PvP type, but if you're saying HB cannot be competitive you're deluding yourself, especially since you don't play it. Why don't you ask someone who does?

Thats Too Bad · May 12, 2009, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Look at the join date... lower than yours? oh n0es auto fail.

So hes played RA a few times, that lets him comment on TA like a korean gosu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

You have it the other way around, there's no matchup system because it's not supposed to be competitive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Wiki

Heroes' Ascent, also known as HA or Tombs, is a continuous global tournament between teams of 8 players from all over the world. Teams compete in several arenas in sequence before finally meeting in the Hall of Heroes, where they may win valuable loot.

Read the bold words VERY carefully. Then tell me, did Anet intend to make HA competitive?

TheDarkshineKnight · May 12, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thats Too Bad

Look at the join date... lower than yours? oh n0es auto fail.

So hes played RA a few times, that lets him comment on TA like a korean gosu.

Read the bold words VERY carefully. Then tell me, did Anet intend to make HA competitive?

Nope, since there's no HA ladder. Even then, despite HB having a ladder, ArenaNet does nothing to support it, so, that pretty much leaves GvG as the only serious competitive format. Considering how most skill nerfs and buffs tend to either be focused on the GvG metagame or dartboard buffs, I think it's fairly obvious.

And I'd trust Mitch's opinion regardless, since, you know, he's one of the best players in the game right now. If you're as competitive as he is, you know how the game works inside and out and can make good assumptions as to how a specific format works without even really playing it.

Killed u man · May 12, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Also, jeydra, I didn't know if you called both me and mitch out, saying neither of us have no HB experience:

He doesn't, he admitted it.

I am ex top 100.

I've gotten to R26 playing Sin (BB and SP), R40 Monk (Damageway) and then I managed to stay in the higher 100's (100-150) playing retarded builds such as Rspike and ritspike (I actually clean spiked shit).

I've also have 1225 wins, and 750 ish losses. Hence, I can say I know the format pretty good.

As for mitch:

So you're relying too much on AI? That's where the micro-management comes in. I agree, it's pretty shit right now, as you spend more time reflagging your heroes, than actually doing some "actions", but saying it has no potential is saying Starcraft has no potential, because U spend too much time microing your units...

If they up AI for most of the skills (Lightening reflexes for example, there is NO AI for this skill, I've NEVER known my hero manually use it, ever), aswell as rewrite the pathfinding, I'm sure it'll be alot more fun.

A format is only as competitive as the skills/objective allow it to be in GW. And if you ask me, HA and HB have the objectives, just no the skill balance.

Killed u man · May 12, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

And I'd trust Mitch's opinion regardless, since, you know, he's one of the best players in the game right now. If you're as competitive as he is, you know how the game works inside and out and can make good assumptions as to how a specific format works without even really playing it.

Someone wants a free invite to KMD.

Also, since all the good GvG'ers left, yeah, I WOULD conciderd Mitch being one of the best players in GvG. (Not GW, He has no HB experience)

Ok, so what makes him the best player in the game?

If anything, I would concider someone who is actually good in ALL formats the best player. All mitch does, is say: I have a gold cape, that makes me good.
Ok, if you're that godly, why arn't U top 100 HB? Other people managed to get past the shitty AI, why didn't he?

Don't get me wrong, I KNOW Mitch is a good player, but so am I, and if anything, I have way more experience in every other format than GvG.

Thats Too Bad · May 12, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

GOD can make good assumptions as to how a specific format works without even really playing it.

I do not believe you.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 12, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Rather than flame each other I'd prefer to focus on the issue at hand which is Anet can't even sort out GvG never mind HA/TA/HB.

Killed u man · May 12, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Rather than flame each other I'd prefer to focus on the issue at hand which is Anet can't even sort out GvG never mind HA/TA/HB.

Well, they're isn't much to sort out anymore.

Well have to wait 2 more days to see if they:

-Have an update for both HB and HA the first time in 3 years.
-Have an update that actually adresses the problems in GW

Snow Bunny · May 12, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Not to actually defend Mitch here but I'm pretty sure he's more well known and better at the game than 99.9% of the people posting here, myself included.

ot:

the game should be balanced around gvg...it's the highest tier of PvP gameplay

Thats Too Bad · May 12, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

the game should be balanced around gvg...it's the highest tier of PvP gameplay

MAYBE it is the correct thing to do. But if it pisses off the other 99.9% of the population, uMad?

I D E L E T E D I · May 12, 2009, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Well, they're isn't much to sort out anymore.

Well have to wait 2 more days to see if they:

-Have an update for both HB and HA the first time in 3 years.
-Have an update that actually adresses the problems in GW

Judging from the leaks, not even GvG is getting a proper update. What makes you think any other format will even get considered by ANet?

God_Hand · May 12, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Paragon:

Song of Concentration: No longer affects allies

Make Haste: 33% faster -> 25% faster

Fall Back: 33% faster -> 25% faster

You fail in my book. Paragons are crappy enough as is.

I D E L E T E D I · May 12, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

You fail in my book. Paragons are crappy enough as is.

99% of the time those skills are not even used on paragons.

Sifow Chan · May 12, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

99% of the time those skills are not even used on paragons.

Yea they're used by monks who continue to make it so paras get nerfed into oblivion.

Greedy Gus · May 12, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thats Too Bad

MAYBE it is the correct thing to do. But if it pisses off the other 99.9% of the population, uMad?

When you fail at throwing in random qq lingo, you fail at trying to make your opinion look informed.

Within the context, you're saying that 99.9% of pvp population is non-GvG and they get pissed by skill balance based on gvg, which is retarded & wrong. If you meant that 99.9% are randoms in pve who don't know about gvg, then who cares, they get pissed at *any* balance attempts. Give them more pve versions of skills.

JR · May 12, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

I've never liked HB, because it's always seemed awkwardly designed and shoehorned in. It's a designers wet dream that they put in without much regard for how it would actually integrate with the rest of the game.

My biggest problem with HB actually has very little to do with the format. It's that HB got a ladder, and TA didn't. They gave a ladder to HB (a format that many were dubious about, to put it nicely) before they gave a ladder to a decent and proven format that LOTS of people would have loved a ladder for.

Hell I'd have loved to see a Dragon Arena ladder before a HB ladder. It's the most balanced form of PvP in the game.