Curse

Reverend Dr · May 10, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

stuff

Most of what you said has rung true. I still feel that most of the problem with party healing is that it generally is hard to disrupt. Recop suffers from the same problem as the old spirit spammers, can cast where you just aren't going to be pressured. PwK can be interrupted, but at 1 sec it is very easy to cast; dropping the heal range to earshot wouldn't be a bad idea either. I feel the reason such strong damage, LC, other crap has been forced into the meta is that disruption just isn't viable as a counter, especially considering it takes more effort than just slamming your head onto the keyboard.

As an aside this whole "balance forums" thing has been pissing me off. As are many, I too am guilty of holding the belief of "I could do better than that." While the merits of putting me in charge of balance are rather suspect, I am quite sure I can "keep my damn mouth shut." Ineffective and NDA ignoring is a powerhouse combo for an official game balancing forum.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 10, 2009, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Meh, I have a feeling this update isn't really gonna touch much.

Pretty much everyone seems to think WE will get nerfed...just hope they don't change it back to a stance since it would destroy the skill...

They REALLY should touch lingering curse and PaH as well.

They should stop all this bloodspike and instead make necro's more viable outside of gimmicks.

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 10, 2009, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

As an aside this whole "balance forums" thing has been pissing me off. As are many, I too am guilty of holding the belief of "I could do better than that." While the merits of putting me in charge of balance are rather suspect, I am quite sure I can "keep my damn mouth shut." Ineffective and NDA ignoring is a powerhouse combo for an official game balancing forum.

These kind of posts are kinda pissing me off, first off, it's hardly an 'official gamebalancing forum' it's more some unofficial side project of Izzy to make it easier for him to keep somewhatup to date on what skills aare problematic etc. etc. without having to play the game

Second off, just because someone makes a good suggestion, even if it's pretty much universally agreed upon that it would be a good change and should just be done, doesn't mean it will happen. Izzy often has pretty 'unique' (or bad if you will) ideas of what is balanced and 'fun' and 'is the only thing to keep x class in play' and even if people manage to get Izzy on the same page as them he still has to convince his superiors those changes are required.

Basically it's a complicated process that I really hope will be improved in GW2 by seperating PvE and PvP balance right from the get go.

Vanquisher · May 10, 2009, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Problem is, I don't care about GW2. I won't be playing it, and while I can understand the resources being used for it, I'd rather they just well, balanced this game. Even if it's just testing suggestions made from others, it could be better than what's happening now.

FoxBat · May 10, 2009, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

absolutely no defensive webs compared to the past.

I think your analysis is spot-on, but a ton of people have clamored for "passive" defense to die since the blockway meta down to right now. We can't put all the blame on izzy here for the consequences.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 10, 2009, 02:38 PM // 14:38

I have a feeling passive defence (namely aegis) will get changed in this update.

turbo234 · May 10, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

Okay I am bored so...

General Updates:

-Make Paragons more effective in PvP
-Buff Spawning Power
-Lessen Ranger's Crazy Elemental Defence on Armor (Because of there uncountable amount of blocking skills)

Specific Skill Updates:

Warrior:

["None Shall Pass!"] Make this so that Tactics is actually involved in the skill such as (0...3 nearby foes), and lower the recharge to 20/30

[Bull's Charge] Increase recharge to 30 and remove the "end if you use a skill" then It might actually be used for once

[Defy Pain] 8 Andrenaline, or lower the maximum health

[Shield Bash] Make it (2...9) seconds, if you nerf disciplined stance, you gotta nerf this, it is also very annoying.

Ranger:

[Crippling Shot] Increase Cripple to (3..16)

[Dryder's Defenses] This is just like invincibility for 10 seconds, lower the recharge to 45, lower the elemental protection, and lower the block to 50%

[Famine] Increase Damage to (25...80), Give a -1 Energy Degen, increase recharge to 45 seconds

[Greater Conflagration] Destroy this skill

[Hunter's Shot] Recharge to 12

[Incendiary Arrows] Increase burning to (0...5) seconds again

[Marksman's Wager] Destroy this skill, this is a joke skill

[Poison Arrow] There is something called poisin tip signet, or apply poison DESTROY

Monk:

[Balthazar's Pendulum] Also Deals (20...60) Damage when it takes effect

[Blessed Light] 5 Energy

[Healing Hands] 10 Energy, 15 recharge

[Life Barrier] Destroy this skill

[Peace and Harmony] 3/4 Cast, Lower Hex and Condition removal to (0..3..5)

[Word of Censure] 5 energy so then it could be somewhat compared to RoJ

Necromancer:

[Faintheartedness] Lower Duration to (3...14)

[Life Transfer] Lower Duration to (2...8)

[Lingering Curse] Lower Duration to (3...15)

[Pain of Disenchantment] Many people want to nerf this skill, but I wanna buff it to an elite rend enchantments: Change to "Remove all enchantments from target foe, for each enchantment removed target foe loses (10...40) health (Maximum 120)

[Rend Enchantments] Change to "Remove (4...10) enchantments, for each enchantment removed, you take (80...40) Damage" Make it 30 Recharge

[Rigor Mortis] Decrease duration to (3...15) seconds

Mesmer:

[Ineptitude] Lower Damage to (10...90), Lower recharge to 15

[Shatter Storm] Personally to me, this is a very wierd and old looking skill, I think it should be changed to "For 5 seconds all nearby foes take 30 damage and lose an enchantment a second" 3 Activation, 30 Recharge

Elementalist:

[Blurred Vision] Increase recharge to 15

[Crystal Wave][Teinai's Crystals] Take out the condition removal

[Ether Prism] Increase recharge to 20

Assassin:

[Beguiling Haze] 10 energy, 15 recharge

[Dark Escape] Way overpowered on monks, lower duration to (3...10)

[Dark Prison] Subs shadow prison, make it 45 second recharge/ (0...3) second

[Expose Defenses] 20 recharge, and (1...6) seconds, or sins will keep rigor mortising

[Feigned Neutrality] Annoying skill, decrease duration to (1...7) seconds, Increase duration to 45 seconds

[Mark of Insecurity] How about make it "For (3...15) seconds target foe cannot use stances"

[Shadow Prison] This is inferior to ["You're all alone!"] I would lower recharge to 15 seconds

[Shroud of Silence] Just delete this skill Anet if you hate it that bad

Ritualist:

[Ancestors' Rage (PvP)] Restore it back to PvE version

[Blind Was Mingson] Lower holding time to (10...30) Seconds

[Shadowsong] Lower blind to (1...3) Seconds

[Splinter Weapon (PvP)] Revert back to Pve Version

[Weapon of Shadow] Reduce blind to 2 seconds

Dervish:

[Onslaught] Increase duration to (8...30) seconds

[Pious Concentration] Increase recharge to 10 seconds

Paragon:

["Incoming!"] Increase duration to (2...7) seconds, and paragons might actually be able to be some kind of support in PvP

["The Power Is Yours!"] Increase duration to 5 seconds

[Defensive Anthem (PvP)] 10 energy, 20 recharge

[Song of Restoration (PvP)] 5 energy, 15 recharge

Oh ya, and also the majority of sin builds barely take any skill to use

Go back to bed izzy. It's past your bedtime.

Note to whoever updates the skills looks like Incoming needs an update still. This guy still hasn't realized it either.

Regulus X · May 10, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I hope alot of Elite Skills get revamped either in this update, or in upcoming updates *prays that they look at the gw wiki skill feedback pages for ideas*

Assassins need slightly more viability and there's plenty of room for it imho. The Live Team can tweak and peak some skills, put it out in an update, and if any are too strong they can always revert back to it's original setting without consequence.

I'd also like to see Paragons have more viability in smaller groups. Dervs are also slightly 1-Dimensional with WS as their only most commonly used and affective Elite.

LC/PnH need to be throttled down a bit (but not too much.. hopefully.. don't wanna see any more 25/90ing goin' on.. >=/). I believe that the Community wants to have skills spiced up some to increase the fun-factor in PvP for the more advanced players. PvE's also in need of boosting PUGing vice Hero/Henching everything or even dual 3-hero parties. Additionally, one-dimensional groups need to be smashed (i.e.: Anything Ursan-Like or One-Dimensional).

Just My two cents.

Reverend Dr · May 10, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

These kind of posts are kinda pissing me off,

Its the fact that I know about the balance forums that piss me off.

Why are non-anet employees a part of this?

What are the credentials required? Who you know?

It is not a public forum, so why is it constantly brought up here?

Nothing quite like, "Say whatever you want to here(I'm not trying to say these forums have amazing discussion), no one is listening; we have our own forum that does the balancing, you aren't invited."

Shit, I hardly play this game anymore. I don't spend that much time on GW forums. Yet I still have a good handle on whose complaints are legitimate, whose are worthless, generally the state of the game. I don't need to create my own forum and it isn't my job to update or stay informed on this game.

Please keep talking about your own privileged information. This really makes me want to play this game. It makes me feel apart of the game and its community. It gives me hope that the game it headed in a forward direction.

Mitch you are an asshole on the internet. So am I. The difference is that you have privileged access to company information, and while not officially, you are effectively a liaison for the company.

Still Number One · May 10, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Problem is, I don't care about GW2. I won't be playing it, and while I can understand the resources being used for it, I'd rather they just well, balanced this game. Even if it's just testing suggestions made from others, it could be better than what's happening now.

It's about time someone else shares the same viewpoint as me. Although my reasoning is a bit different because as far as I know, I will be playing GW2. I also couldn't care less about GW2 right now because as we all know, GW1 is arguably as broken as it has ever been. Right now Anet is showing us they have no knowledge on how to properly manage this game, and that means they will have no knowledge on how to properly manage and maintain GW2. We have no reason to believe GW2 will be different, and in fact, we all should believe that it will be more of the same imbalanced problems as GW today. Therefore, I really wish they would put more people on to balance and program GW 1 so that they, if nothing else, at least learn the correct direction to balance the game so that maybe in GW2 they will be moving the right way to achieving what it is we all want.

Although it is a pointless wish because GW2 is where they are going to make their money and they would never be able to justify to 90% of the community that GW2 release is getting pushed back even further so that they can figure out how to properly manage a game.

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 10, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Nothing quite like, "Say whatever you want to here(I'm not trying to say these forums have amazing discussion), no one is listening; we have our own forum that does the balancing, you aren't invited."

Well with the level of discussion here (read this long list of craptastic changes some guy wrote a few pages back for a good example of what I mean) can you really blame Izzy for 'singling' out some higher level players to get his feedback from? It's always been like this anyway except it used to be an official alpha server/forum.

Quote:

Shit, I hardly play this game anymore. I don't spend that much time on GW forums. Yet I still have a good handle on whose complaints are legitimate, whose are worthless, generally the state of the game. I don't need to create my own forum and it isn't my job to update or stay informed on this game.

That's good for you, other people might disagree with your opinions on these matters however..

Quote:

Please keep talking about your own privileged information. This really makes me want to play this game. It makes me feel apart of the game and its community. It gives me hope that the game it headed in a forward direction.

It's not problem Izzy/Anet chooses to operate this way, but there's a lot less useless bs to sort through than if they'd use public forums.

Quote:

Mitch you are an asshole on the internet. So am I. The difference is that you have privileged access to company information, and while not officially, you are effectively a liaison for the company.

I'm an asshole on public forums to people who're either stupid, assholes themselves or a combination of the two. It really sounds like you're just bitter that you're not given access to these forums, it's not nearly as glamorous/impressive as it might seem..

TheDarkshineKnight · May 10, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Its the fact that I know about the balance forums that piss me off.

Why are non-anet employees a part of this?

What are the credentials required? Who you know?

It is not a public forum, so why is it constantly brought up here?

Nothing quite like, "Say whatever you want to here(I'm not trying to say these forums have amazing discussion), no one is listening; we have our own forum that does the balancing, you aren't invited."

Shit, I hardly play this game anymore. I don't spend that much time on GW forums. Yet I still have a good handle on whose complaints are legitimate, whose are worthless, generally the state of the game. I don't need to create my own forum and it isn't my job to update or stay informed on this game.

Please keep talking about your own privileged information. This really makes me want to play this game. It makes me feel apart of the game and its community. It gives me hope that the game it headed in a forward direction.

Mitch you are an asshole on the internet. So am I. The difference is that you have privileged access to company information, and while not officially, you are effectively a liaison for the company.

At this point, I think the only thing that can be done is to create a super balance think-tank composed of the players most knowledgeable of the various metagames. This think-tank would produce a document that would explain the state of the metagames, what skill changes would be required to make these metagames more balanced, and why each change is necessary in great detail. Then the document would be placed on Izzy's balance forums. Then, everyone would pray for Izzy to actually make the changes.

Of course, if this is what already happens on the balance forums, well, then, we doomed for all eternity since truly nothing can make Izzy see the light of reason.

And when I say metagames, I mean the GvG, HA, and TA metagames. Balancing RA and AB are completely pointless, since, well, they're random. >_>

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well with the level of discussion here (read this long list of craptastic changes some guy wrote a few pages back for a good example of what I mean) can you really blame Izzy for 'singling' out some higher level players to get his feedback from? It's always been like this anyway except it used to be an official alpha server/forum.

That's good for you, other people might disagree with your opinions on these matters however..

It's not problem Izzy/Anet chooses to operate this way, but there's a lot less useless bs to sort through than if they'd use public forums.

I'm an asshole on public forums to people who're either stupid, assholes themselves or a combination of the two. It really sounds like you're just bitter that you're not given access to these forums, it's not nearly as glamorous/impressive as it might seem..

I think he'd just like to see Izzy's thought process, honestly. We all would. :P

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 10, 2009, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

I think he'd just like to see Izzy's thought process, honestly. We all would. :P

And what makes you think we get any insight in that? It's really just a bunch of people discussing things with Izzy showing up once or twice a month and if we're lucky reads some of what we wrote and implements it in the next balance update.

I think most of the changes even happen because of people discussiong things directly with Izzy on MSN etc.

Vanquisher · May 10, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well with the level of discussion here (read this long list of craptastic changes some guy wrote a few pages back for a good example of what I mean) can you really blame Izzy for 'singling' out some higher level players to get his feedback from? It's always been like this anyway except it used to be an official alpha server/forum.

My only issue with this is that a lot/most of those players are either;

- Stupid when it comes to balance issues or;
- Incredibly biased when it comes to balance issues.

I know that's bound to happen when you select whatever sample, but getting players because they perform well in mAT's is a bad system because performing well, especially in a game that has seen a significant power creep occuring consistently, does not equate to knowledge re: balance.

TheDarkshineKnight · May 10, 2009, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

And what makes you think we get any insight in that? It's really just a bunch of people discussing things with Izzy showing up once or twice a month and if we're lucky reads some of what we wrote and implements it in the next balance update.

I think most of the changes even happen because of people discussiong things directly with Izzy on MSN etc.

Well, I assumed that Izzy was be a little more active then that. That's quite depressing, honestly, if he operates his own balance forums and doesn't even discuss anything on them.

Wish Swiftdeath · May 10, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Discussing balance updates on msn? That is ridiculous...

Does izzy have ensign on his msn list?

Reverend Dr · May 10, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Mitch you are right that I am pissed that I am not allowed this information. Why shouldn't I be pissed that someone that is not involved with anet or alpha/beta testing is allowed it, but I am not?

I browse these forums once or twice a day. Its not hard to pick out the posters worth listening to and the posts worth reading.

As Vanq said, winning at the game does not equate to knowledge about balance. Nor does it bring in people that will ignore any self-serving interests. Nor does it bring in people that are going to keep their mouth shut. If Izzy is going to have to filter through bs on that board, I see no reason to not just filter through bs on public boards; unless he takes everything on that board seriously, which from what I've heard about that board might just explain the terrible balancing act.

Why did that forum get the skill update list before anyone else? Feedback? I see no reason not to make it that all public. What about the skill updates makes it such that they have to be a secret until the build goes live?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

Does izzy have ensign on his msn list?

The answer to that should be obvious.

I D E L E T E D I · May 11, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

Well with the level of discussion here (read this long list of craptastic changes some guy wrote a few pages back for a good example of what I mean) can you really blame Izzy for 'singling' out some higher level players to get his feedback from? It's always been like this anyway except it used to be an official alpha server/forum.

That's good for you, other people might disagree with your opinions on these matters however..

It's not problem Izzy/Anet chooses to operate this way, but there's a lot less useless bs to sort through than if they'd use public forums.

I'm an asshole on public forums to people who're either stupid, assholes themselves or a combination of the two. It really sounds like you're just bitter that you're not given access to these forums, it's not nearly as glamorous/impressive as it might seem..

I have nothing against you Mitch, the only reason I am targeting you here is that you are the only person who seems to talk about the Balance Forums, since most people either don't give a shit or have super awesome rules for their guild(lolrawr)

You argument and it seems Izzy's initial idea of setting up these forums is too weed out the idiots which is pretty much 99% of GW population. Fair enough no big deal. I can also understand that under the current rules, leaks make Izzy look bad and unproffesional( which he already does but thats beside the matter).

But what is the big deal in making these boards public, as read only. Currently you need an admin approval to see the boards, and that can remain in place, just make the boards so that everyone can view them without needing to even register.

I guess the people who have access to the boards have not really given a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about this, but it seems to be a big issue with the general community and has increasingly since the first leak back in August(?), and it will only get bigger and bigger an issue.

Jaden Stone · May 11, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

The balance forums were not created simply to weed out poor posters and excess chatter, they were made as a high end think tank to get the perspective at the top of the ladder of what the current issues really are. Guildwars has a bit of a trickle down effect when it comes to builds and balance. Players at the top either create or excell at a specific build, form new tactics, or understand what makes others win/lose; the rest of the ladder follows. Teams which do this consistantly show a great understanding of the game and how it works, those are the people I'd want to hear ideas from. Does this mean every high end player is going to shit gems of wisdom? no. Are there people who are capable of making great contributions outside the top of the ladder? yes. It's a lot like the HA eliteism debate, and im not going there.

There are plenty of people outside the top of the ladder on those forums who provide excellent feedback and input. Different unbias perspectives are a good thing.

As for the privacy issue. I think it's more about setting expectations. When you allow the entire community to view whats on the table and what plans you have for the future and are unable to meet these expectations, it's a major playerbase moral issue. Pretty much every month something good gets turned down due to time restraints, coding, game mechanics. Not everything is posslibe. Also, you have to realize that once public everything said no longer goes through the wonderful PR filter all smart companies have. Making statments by us and izzy represent your company is not a good plan. Believe me, some pretty stupid/rude/funny/offensive things have been thrown around.
Lastly, the forums themselves. They look like shit, they probably couldn't handle the traffic either. It would take time and money to make official forums to represent the company. Not to mention translations because euros have feelings too.

What mitch said is pretty accurate. It's much less an official balance forum and much more some random people discussing whats wrong with the game.

Snow Bunny · May 11, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

[offering of blood] - 17% sac, 12r.

[divine boon] - decrease healing by 5 at 12 divine, lower energy loss to one.

Nerf WoH, Damage, PwK, WE, and all that other shit.

But buff DB and OOB!!!