Originally Posted by Jeydra

Spirit Bond - if you need to spam this skill you are either 1) not doing your job right, 2) 600'ing PvE or 3) abusing Ether Renewal (PvE). In either of the latter cases I think nerfs are warranted. PvE version merged with PvP version.

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Don't nerf permasins because they simply make people happy and rich in PvE.
Maybe nerf weaken knees because it always kills me.

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

Still, the initial problem with a balance in the meta is that builds are allowed to run so much defense while still being able to push your team in at stand. The fact that a team can afford two healers at base and warriors are spamming 400 damage every 3 seconds is stupid. People wouldn't be able to afford that much defense if they didn't produce that much damage.

Your points are all valid Vanquisher, but I wouldn't say they are the primary issue. Enchantment strips goes under with what I was talking about. So does the spikes not really being affected by good prots.

Nerfing PwK would give some more variety, but people would still find a way to stick in some party healing.

Originally Posted by Jeydra

stuff!

Originally Posted by distilledwill

I quite like your WE idea. Would make it a bit more tactical I guess.

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

I see the problem rather differently. My feelings are that damage is too great, which forces people into running so much defence. Were more skills required in order to score kills, teams would not afford the bar space for all the defensive skills we see, and if protection and support skills had more emphasis placed upon them, kills would be achieved solely by well coordinated shutdown, rather than spamming 1, 2, and 3 on a WE bar while the other teams entire backline is suffering from 33% less benefit from healing, or everyone hitting button x on 1.

To correct for many of the problems in this game, you need to look at a few things - the ability to run skills unspecced (notable concepts being energy management and speed buffs); the recharge time on interrupts, and their effects; the viability of shutdown windows (and here I am talking about the strength of the likes of Blackout and Gale vs. those of, for instance, Diversion and Shame); the ease of access to deep wound; the mechanics of primary attributes; the balance case of removals vs. application (for enchantments, hexes, and conditions); the, for lack of a better word, duality of some templates (Rangers and Water Eles).

Really everyone will have different opinions on the direction the game should take, and thus everyones feelings and assumptions about the best course of balance will differ. Many people are incredibly favourable to pressure, because they seem to have this idea that interrupts should be the epitomy of skill in this game. They'll naturally want frontloaded builds to come to the fore, and are the ones that pushed heavily for nerfs to the likes of Ward Melee, Aegis, DA, etc. While I think it's undisputable that the defence web achieved from the stacking of Shield's Up, Defensive Anthem, Ward Melee, and Aegis, as well as Watch Yourself and Stand Your Ground or whatever else was run was and is ridiculous, it is important to look at what those party-wide block skills all had in common - a defined range for which they could be used.

I'm still a bit miffed by the Ward Melee nerf. It was never a problem, even when people ran it under Fast Cast with two Dom Mesmers. What made it a problem was that people didn't want to have to split, and that splitting became a poor option because of Flaggers affording space on their bar to keep NPC's alive for an incredibly long time. The changes to the end mechanic of games and Victory or Death only served to ratify this, while the promotion of overpowered templates to keep split play viable is just a paper-fix to a large problem that still needs to be addressed.

Summing up for the tl;dr...

The initial problem isn't that teams are carrying so much defence and only 1 skill to do big damage, it's that teams are forced to carry so much defence and only 1 skill to do big damage, because, in particular, damage is too big.
The fact damage is too big has led to healing being too big on individual basis', and prot hasn't kept the progression of buffs and is bypassed by big damage through deep strips anyway.
Nerfing party healing and party-wide defence is actually bad because it will just force teams to bring more of those kind of options to deal with all the big damage, or teams will just start running even more big damage for bigger damage.

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I've never had a problem with heal party (then again it saw play in a meta where largely every team had two warriors, a dom mesmer, and a ranger while that flagger bar was largely fragile), or LoD (it is elite after all, subject to hum sig, and also saw play during a dom heavy meta). PwK's double drop is kind of strong, but its real annoyance is that it isn't easily disruptable nor is it worth pushing for the way LoD or Heal Party were. That combined with the fact that it can be used to trigger "while holding an item" conditionals confounds it, which I really feel is the heart of why PwK keeps seeing play. The divine healings I hate, not because of their game mechanics, but because it encourages running a third monk primary.

Originally Posted by Adriaanz#Shiro

Jeydra, I think the aftercast on all shadowsteps should be removed for Assassins only. Right now, it is hard to kill one target with a bar containing a shadow step (for example, Shadow Prison), whereas you can cause deaths more easily with Palm Strike bar. To make this equal, de-nerf aftercast for Assassins only.

Thoughts?

EDIT: By saying it is harder to kill with a build containing a shadowstep, I meant that it is more easy to defend against.

Originally Posted by Torsen1

[Master of Magic] Elite Skill. For 1..20 seconds, all of your elemental attributes are set to 20, and your targeted spells gain 140% normal casting range. You are unable to move or cast spells on adjacent foes.

Siege mode elementalist woo!

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Probably needs 3s activation, and can't be interrupted, knocked, or canceled during cast. When this skill ends, all your skills are disabled for 3s and you cannot move. All your wand attacks hit adjacent units to your target as well.

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

[Blessed Light] 5 Energy

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Since everyone's posting suggestions I thought I'd do some of my own for fun.

Smiter's Boon - some people prefer this skill to stay completely dead; I think it's better that it sees play but is not as overpowered as the previous incarnation was. Energy cost 25e -> 10e, cast time 1/4s -> 1s, duration 5s -> 30s, recharge 90s-> 60s. Might still need fine tuning.
Smite monks are OP as is right now, but I'd like to at least see this skill be playable. underpowered is fine, but nerfing it out of the game was uncallsed for. I suggest reverting it, but puting it under healing prayers.

All enchantments - few things are more frustrating than seeing an otherwise well-timed preprot destroyed by enchantment removal.
All enchantments may no longer be removed by a hostile foe within 2 seconds after application. I like the idea, but make it 1 second, 2 is a bit op considering stuff like PnH and other short duration enchants

All Elementalist Attunements - I think Elementalist Attunements need some protection from getting stripped so Elementalist damage becomes more viable. Attunements are plenty vulnerable while being put up already, and Elementalist damage is still somewhat unreliable with +10 armor shields and +7 armor spears. Attunements recharge 50% faster if removed prematurely.
I agree with the problem, not sure what the solution is though.

Windborne Speed - since Fire and Water Elementalists currently see split play, a buff to this skill might make Air Elementalists see split play too. Don't know about Earth Elementalists, they just don't seem suited for splits. Functionality change: Enchantment. You and up to two random allies within earshot move 33% faster for 1 ... 8 seconds. Hopefully the random nature of the speedboost would make it not so useful in 8v8s.
I'd like a similar change to Para shouts. This would allow them to be used in gvg without being inately over or underpowered, not sure about the use on this skill though.

Shadow Prison, Beguiling Haze, Aura of Displacement and possibly Wastrel's Collapse - i.e. the elite shadowsteps. Since they're elite, it might be fairer to remove aftercast, and then if they start getting abused by Warriors to either increse energy cost or make it so they disable all non-Dagger attack skills for 10s, like Wastrel's right now.
This takes us back to the days when factions just came out. Maybe a slight lowering of recharge would be good, but aftercast need to stay

Warrior's Endurance - here's a random suggestion to balance this skill: change to Stance, duration decrease to 8s, recharge decrease to 4s. Then you alternate between Warrior's Endurance (building up energy) and Frenzy (unloading energy), the same way you might manage adrenaline.
Me likes this


Price of Failure - so Necros do not disappear entirely with nerfs to Foul Feast and Lingering Curse, energy cost 15e -> 10e.
Not too sure about this one, mainly because of PVE use with reckless haste. The 15 energy is whats keeping that combo from being completely OP in pve right now

Corrupt Enchantment - overshadowed by Lingering Curse, and after Lingering Curse, Weaken Knees. Recharge 10s -> 8s.
This skill is already popular in RA, The skills that overshadow it are a bit overpowered, I'm inclined to think this is good as is

Splinter Weapon - with VoD gone the AoE effect isn't that important anymore. Either PvP skill merged with PvE version or PvE version switched with PvP version, since the PvE version is rather overpowered ...
I'd be a bit worried about HA usage here.

Assassin's Promise - way overpowered in PvE, way underpowered in PvP. PvE / PvP skill split, PvE recharge @ 60s, PvP recharge @ 30s. Would be the first skill whose PvE version is weaker than PvP version, and it needs it, too.
I can't say I disagree with this. Its no used much in pvp, but 30 seconds might be a bit low.

Offerings of Blood - this is a dangerous skill to touch, but then I think it deserves to see more play seeing how it's pretty much entirely dead. Health sacrifice 20% -> 10%.
Not too sure about this one. ITs still powerful on some ele builds though the recent buffs to energy storage do overshadow it..

Troll Unguent - same as above. This one is a riskier change since Troll Unguent sees play a lot more than Hexer's Vigor, as well as sees play outside of RA / AB. Still, it's not very common anymore ... cast time 3s -> 2s.
Troll is really well balanced as is, hell it was seeing play before the duration increase, ranger ability to throw up a blocking stance makes the cast time not that important, leave it as is

Chain Lightning - long dead relic from ages past, why not revive it. Damage now follows Invoke Lightning progression. Might need to buff the cast time as well, although that would conflict with Invoke Lightning (but then, who uses Invoke Lightning either?). I've recently seen some crazy usage of invoke lightning in HB, but chain lightning does need a slight buff.

Lightning Hammer - since using this skill requires 1) you don't get interrupted, or your energy dies and 2) your Attunements stay up I think we can get away with this skill now causes Cracked Armor. You still can't put it on a FC Mesmer for spike assist since even with GoLE it's a 15 energy spell.

Assault Enchantments - Assassins need a buff in general. While whether or not to buff Assassin damage is hotly disputed, this could be easier, giving Assassins something to do other than instagib. Functionality change: Hex spell. Must follow Dual Attack. Target foe loses all enchantments, all stances, all weapon spells and for the next ? seconds (5-10? I don't know) all enchantments, stances and weapon spells on that foe expires 50% faster.
interesting change, what cast time, and you have to keep in mind that there are skills that can follow a dual attack back into a combo, this could be very touchy

Zealous Benediction - even where this skill was meant to shine, RA and AB, it's simply outdone by WoH. WoH heals more, recharges faster and is less risky. Least that can be done is recharge 4s -> 3s.
[This is a necessary change, but it can't be too powerful, because it does allow the player to keep all their points in protection players rather than splitting them apart.[/u]

Incendiary Arrows - at 3s recharge it dominated every other Ranger elite; at 5s recharge it's almost extinct. Why not do the obvious: recharge 5s -> 4s.
Its powerful enough for spreading posion, leave as is.

Primal Rage - Gone Not good. Recharge 15s -> 12s.Agreed

Recuperation - looks like it's really hard to pressure out teams while this is active, so nerf is warranted. Level decreased to 1 ... 4, or it dies in a couple of hits. Considering how large its AoE is it might still be usable.

Backbreaker - revert. Sins need a viable chain. With 10 adrenaline cost you can't instagib anyone, and given the amount of defensive tools at a Monk's disposal if an Assassin kills someone with this in HB then maybe it's the fault of the player, not the skill.

You're All Alone! - well flaggers use this but Rit primary flaggers are pretty rare now. Also sees play in HB but I don't think it's that overpowered there (it looks quite rare compared to Backbreaker, Coward, etc, at least on Obs mode). 10s recharge -> 8s recharge. Makes it a perma snare so long as the target doesn't put on Cripple shields.

Recall - splitting should be encouraged, not discouraged. A free, no-drawbacks Recall is overpowered, but it's still interesting to use and watch. I suggest increasing the recharge so you can't pop back and forth freely anymore. This would also fix the defense overload problem in HB (who wants to play vs. capway on Crossing?). No longer disables skills. Recharge increased to 90s. 60s might be a fairer duration.

Signet of Judgment - another risky change, but PvP version merged with PvE version. Signet Mesmers with this skill were very strong, but then at least one other build, the A/Mo Assacaster, was very reliant on this as well, and I do think it was rather an unfair nerf to them. They're still popular, the skill is fine as is

Simple Thievery - unless you conveniently stuck points into the relevant attribute, what's the point? The stolen skill now uses your Fast Casting attribute. its supposed to be a disable, but I understand the complaint. Using FC would be too powerful, instead scale Simple Thievery base on FC 1...9...12

******

I'm pretty sure I've missed some things I'd want to change, so this isn't an exhaustive list. Still it's an illustration of my feelings of balance. I'll be pleased if I get even one of my more unique changes implemented (eg. Windborne)

EDIT: Lol Echo stole my Foul Feast / RC / Draw Conditions idea.

Originally Posted by Neo-LD

As has been said many times now, the game features too many skills and characters that do their job too well. Deep Strips that remove all prot. Removals that clean everything. Warriors with damage off the charts. Party healing with unheard of efficiency. Party-wide block that instantly relieves pressure if it resolves or leads to instant crisis if disrupted. Being elite is not enough of a drawback, and some of these skills aren't even elite. None of those are desirable aspects of the game, and should be dealt with accordingly.