Curse

Xyon the Greatest · May 05, 2009, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Well, no, because most of the skills you mentioned aren't even problems in the first place.

My only input is that Spawning Power does not need to be buffed. But it DOES need to be made necessary. Rits are the only class that do not have to invest a single point in their primary to be useful. Being able to fully spec into 2 attributes that aren't their primary is what breaks them. It's the same reason other classes with better energy management can play a secondary rit as well (and sometimes better) than a primary. It's not the function of Spawning Power that keeps it from being used (even though it doesn't do much)- it's the shitty, useless skills.

It'll never happen, but I'd love to see *all* weapon spells moved to Spawning, and redistribute all other skills elsewhere.

Of course they are not problems, that is why we need to make them to problems!

kvndoom · May 05, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

Of course they are not problems, that is why we need to make them to problems!

Wow, did Izzy register on Guru?

wtfisgoingon · May 06, 2009, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

wow, did izzy register on guru?

rofl
1212121111

Motoko · May 06, 2009, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xyon the Greatest

The funny thing is how big your brain is.

First of all, the point of buffing the less used skills because they are less used, which means that they are not as good as the other more used skills that are better, which means I am buffing the skills that need to be balanced up. Skill balancer wooptedoo!

Second thing is what the hell is wrong with these random skills that are 4 years old without any update, and are horribly bad now. They need to be updated, or there is no point in having them since no one uses them.

Third off, I have barely touched any meta skills in my post, just a few skills that ARE overpowered.

Thank You and have a wonderful day!

The problem is:

You have the same mindset that the skill balancing team has had which leads us to our current problem today. "Crappy skills no one uses? Buff em!"
Constantly buffing skills to counter other buffed skills is not the way to go. The fact that today we are able to hybrid so much defense and incorporate as little offense as possible to score kills is a reason this game needs fixing.

Skills need to be toned down to make more offense required. Buffing anything at this point would be an absolute admission that they did not learn anything from their recent mistakes.

You might have put time into those skill ideas, but that doesn't mean your ideas were good. You probably need a firmer grasp of higher end gvg to understand what we mean. It's not bad to theorycrafy or come up with new ideas, just don't get butt hurt when people tell you your ideas are bad.

Lux Aeterna · May 06, 2009, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Buffing a few random underused skills would be awesome, because assuming they were still balanced it would switch up the meta a bit and give more options, ie the peace and harmony buff.

More usable meta skills = good.

Buffing underpowered skills to the point where they're the only usable meta = bad (ie warrior's endurance)

Nerfing good skills because people QQ: bad (most of the nerfs asked for in this thread)

I really hope they don't nerf overpowered skills to the point where they can't be used, for example as much as I hate WE I don't want to see it disappear completely like primal rage.

Nimble Night · May 06, 2009, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Buffing a few random underused skills would be awesome, because assuming they were still balanced it would switch up the meta a bit and give more options, ie the peace and harmony buff.

The last time random underused skills were buffed we were given the most grossly overpowered trash to date. PnH is revoltingly overpowered compared to any other hex and condition removal and completely destroys any hex based midliner. I personally have never been a fan of these fast cast water eles, but i prefer them a lot more that the smiter trash we have atm.

I would have to admit I would not shed a tear if every skill buffed by the previous update was reverted or made obsolete.

IMMORTAlMITCH · May 06, 2009, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

More usable meta skills = good.

And by buffing skills to insane levels, you'll reach the exact opposite.

Quote:

I really hope they don't nerf overpowered skills to the point where they can't be used, for example as much as I hate WE I don't want to see it disappear completely like primal rage.

WE in it's current form will either be grossly overpowered or unusable, without changing the skill mechanics I don't see a possible 'middle ground' for this skill, and the same goes for Primal Rage kind of.

Jeydra · May 06, 2009, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

WE in it's current form will either be grossly overpowered or unusable, without changing the skill mechanics I don't see a possible 'middle ground' for this skill, and the same goes for Primal Rage kind of.

Since when? All ANet has to do for example is to tweak the recharge to, say, 45s or whatever is a good time when you have some downtime during which you can't exert pressure in between bursts of heavy pressure, and that would be fine, no?

moriz · May 06, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

and people would just stop using it as soon as its recharge is greater than its max duration.

Bobby2 · May 06, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

and people would just stop using it as soon as its recharge is greater than its max duration.

Really? AoM was used for a good while, if I recall correctly

(besides there's still axe pressure + DW on a stick)

Burton2000 · May 06, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

Really? AoM was used for a good while, if I recall correctly

Because avatar of melandru was so good you only really needed it for around a minute in time for VoD when you could just farm npcs without fear of being killed. I don't really think the 2 can be compared.

Krill · May 06, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

...tweak the recharge to, say, 45s or whatever is a good time when you have some downtime during which you can't exert pressure in between bursts of heavy pressure, and that would be fine, no?

So you've got 30 seconds of the same garbage and 15 seconds of mediocre skills? That not a fix. I'd much rather see some changes to weapon elites to get warriors back on a normal program. For example, what would hurt to lower eviscerate to 7 adrenaline and give cleave a small buff as a 5 adrenaline skill? A 7 adrenaline evise would allow evise + body blow + something besides conjure in your utility slot and a 5 adrenaline cleave that didn't suck would allow dismember + cleave + conjure in your utility slot as a more pressure oriented build that wasn't so retarded.

GourangaPizza · May 06, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I think a better solution to WE is to lower its max energy gain from 23 to 15 at 13 Strength, no? Anyway I think there are more pressing issues other than WE itself.

fowlero · May 06, 2009, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

So you've got 30 seconds of the same garbage and 15 seconds of mediocre skills? That not a fix. I'd much rather see some changes to weapon elites to get warriors back on a normal program. For example, what would hurt to lower eviscerate to 7 adrenaline and give cleave a small buff as a 5 adrenaline skill? A 7 adrenaline evise would allow evise + body blow + something besides conjure in your utility slot and a 5 adrenaline cleave that didn't suck would allow dismember + cleave + conjure in your utility slot as a more pressure oriented build that wasn't so retarded.

The fact isn't that other warrior elites are underpowered, suggesting a buff to eviscerate is pretty amazing though. Plus that buff would still be inferior.

Get away from the thinking that you fix a broken build by buffing something else, that's the whole reason we're in this mess. Fix/destroy WE rather than buffing something else.

My thoughts lie along altering power attack/prot strikes recharges cos i can't think anything to do to WE that wouldn't render it useless. Power attack was never used before the bar anyway and prot strike wouldn't be too hurt by a longer recharge outside of a WE bar.

Lux Aeterna · May 06, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

And by buffing skills to insane levels, you'll reach the exact opposite.

I said making more usable meta skills

emuking · May 06, 2009, 07:34 PM // 19:34

/dshot this thread
DOODOOPANTS STRIKES AGAIN!!!

InfestedHydralisk · May 06, 2009, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Hence why you nerf, instead of making dartbuff buffs. Nerfing every skill a little bit a time will slowly create an equilibrium of ALL skills. Ok, some skills such as draw cond will ALWAYS get completely overshadowed by skills such as foul feast.

But other skills, such as axe elites (srsly who uses those nowadays?) will get on par with most str elites, etc.

Nerfing is the more obvious choice, rather than buffing...

i actually ment it in the way that the game will actually see most/all skills in use

Krill · May 06, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlero

The fact isn't that other warrior elites are underpowered, suggesting a buff to eviscerate is pretty amazing though. Plus that buff would still be inferior.

How would lowering evise to 7 adrenaline be an inferior skill? And yes, these skills are underpowered.

[cleave][whirling axe]

Why do you think axe warriors with strength elites have been meta since what, August? And before that dervs were seeing a lot of play (plenty of good teams lost to dervs well before VoD). Part if it is overpowered skills and part of it is bad skills. For example, why would you even consider playing cleave when WE with power attack / protector's does more damage, recharges faster and requires no energy management at all? I do think the solution to these problems small nerfs and buffs rather than buffing skills to insane levels to force meta changes and then killing them a few months later. There's just no logic to it.

scruffy · May 06, 2009, 10:18 PM // 22:18

how about you just change it so that instead of all attacks giving +3 energy you change it so that only your attack skills give you +3 energy

or maybe make it so that your attack skills steal 3 energy o_O

Killed u man · May 06, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfestedHydralisk

i actually ment it in the way that the game will actually see most/all skills in use

That's what I meant aswell. The anwser is obvious:

Prophecies days were better/more fun.
Bring every meta skill back to a prophecies equilibrium. (Nerf Warrior's endurance duration little by little, untill the day comes that you see warriors both run Shock Axe, and WE on a same level)
Once this is done for most skills, start buffing other skills, and repeat...

Problem comes in here, obviously, is sins, dervs, etc... But those are design flaws. Imo, I'dd rather have a BoA gank sin, than a completely useless one...