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Apr 22, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37
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#41 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
Ranger interrupts are just too strong. Mantra of resolve and distortion after first distortion nerf (you know before it was 1...4 energy lost) were just never used. They found use because of insane disruption rangers can bring. Nerfing them will just build a highway for ranger mageraping. Its in fact nerfing the only way to counter OP interrupts rangers have. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11
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#42 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Nov 2006
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The suggestions in this thread are awful.
I guess it doesn't matter who does the balance, it will never be intelligent or even balanced. It's like this: I am a Warrior. QQ Blindbot QQ Blinding Surge pls nerf it for the 4235792th time! QQ Distortion I can't hit, oh no! QQ Nerf AGAIN please! If you get owned by eda, bring ench removal, it's a team game. Dshot is not your one counter to everything, or interrupts for that matter. What is this?! People actually use their secondary profession?!??! OMG MAKE FASTCASTING ONLY TRIGGER ON MESMER SPELLS IT WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS AT ONCE. Rofl. Instead of nerfing gay overpowered and nothing but ping dependant interrupts, sure nerf fast casting. Try to play an Ele with a magebane Ranger standing next to you or a powerblock Mesmer around. I am using Rodgort's Invocation!....... not. Nerf Fastcasting! Nerf Mantra of resolve! Nerf Pious concentration! Nerf mantra of concentration! Nerf Glyph of Concentration! May the better ping win. Dshot to 1sec recharge, there you go. You are so terribly uncreative, you just scream like a baby for an update, because you can't think a way out of the build monotony that you made your very self on your own. QQ new toys pls! Srsly, one must recently buff a skill so that you consider using it. Lol@ the people doing mirror matches all month and complaining about miraculously all-apparent fotm skills. You don't know anything beyond those fotm skills which you always and only will use. To make you play something else, Skills must be changed. You are afraid of losing trying something new, pussies. You know how to do your one-and-only balanced, which is actually far from what balanced used to be (variety, also being able to kill from pressure), and actually a mixed spike, and that's all. All forms of kills or pressure have become spikes. Whoever wrote FF is not too strong is braindead. A single skill obliterates all condition pressure builds, while at the same time gaining energy, and using these very conditions back against them. Non-elite. Your balancing ideas are as bright as this: Nerf assassins to oblivion. Make hexes unplayable. What brilliant fine-tuning! Geniuses. You take your 0815 mundane mixedspike build and methods as point of reference for your so called balance. It will never result in diversity, which is indication for balance. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19
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#43 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: May 2005
Location: America
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How do people feel about mind blast eles in general now? To me it seems like they have reached the same damage capacity as a turret ranger, but with better splitting and survivability.
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Apr 22, 2009, 05:05 PM // 17:05
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#44 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA: liberating you since 1918.
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Quote:
Peace and Harmony. It's a monk easy button, where you throw it on a target and they are fresh and clean, instantly. I hate hexes as much as the next frontliner, but this skill is making the game stale. Increasing its recharge or making it 10 energy kills the skill in 8v8 play. I propose keeping it 5e 7rc, but removing its initial hex and condition removal. This way, it can still be used as a removal. Hexes like frozen gust and diversion will dissolve almost instantly, as will most blinds and dazes, but longer duration hexes and conditions will last for at least a few seconds. Most notably, deep wound. This way, it isn't just an insta-clean monk button. Secondly, foul feast. It removes conditions and gives health and energy. It should be tuned up to 10 energy, to make it not a mindless party-window clean. Or, increased to 5 sec recharge, in tune with plague sending. Warrior's endurance. The meta is to blame for most of this skill's prominence, but it's still too powerful in general. Increasing it to 10e might be a suitable nerf, or reworking it as they did with hundred blades might also work: a 10 sec duration at 14 strength, with 15 sec recharge. I have a feeling, though, that Anet will beat this skill into the ground come May. Mind blast. As Anet is sure to nerf some of the skills that have made 8v8 omega spikes the staple of tournament play this month, they must be careful with mind blast. The E/Me mind blast template is very strong, and almost impossible to kill on splits. A nerf on the energy return from mind blast, say to 5 or 6 energy returned at 14 fire magic, would help. Lingering curse. In light of other potential monk nerfs, like pnh, lingering should also get a hit. My main beef is that the hex lasts way too long. Make it 15s duration at 14 curses. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 05:38 PM // 17:38
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#45 | |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Quote:
Party healing stacking is for sure an issue but tweaking cast times and recharge doesn't deal with the root of the problem. Upping the recharge on PwK to 20 or even 30 seconds is a short fix to double dropping as teams that are under pressure would be forced to drop it on recharge at some point. Has anyone suggested adding a cap to party healing in the same way as it has been done for soul reaping? It would make party healing stacking less attractive because getting to use multiple copies in a short amount of time would discard anything that goes beyond the cap. I guess it all depends on numbers and fine tunning. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55
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#46 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2008
Profession: W/
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Quote:
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Apr 22, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28
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#47 | |
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Desert Nomad
![Ec]-[oMaN's Avatar](../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto, Ont.
Guild: [DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]
Profession: W/
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Quote:
The general feel of Guild Wars comparing past meta's; this one is stale as usual relating to there being no medium of skill power levels in this game because of poor skill buffing and nuking. Always forcing a meta upon players instead of the other way around. Furthermore the meta is a degradation of skill, skill usage, and creating killing windows in which Guild Wars once was more related into achieving. Mindless button mash builds such as WE, MindBlast, and OP monk Elites along with retarded amounts of pressure from Lingering Curse and retarded amount's of condi/hex removal. I'd like to see Guild Wars and the Live team finally look at what the game was and now is. Then again I don't even know if one of them on that team has played the game during the duration of Guild Wars life time. I want condi/physical pressure to make a come back, spike to take a back seat. Warriors having to build adren and choose when and on who to unload it on. Rangers/Mesmers to have roles more related to disruption played offensively or defensively. The game needs an overhaul, oh how far we've come. When I look back at Nighfall release and even months post release the game feels like we've moved back to those dreaded OP metas, but at least back then you had way more build variety Last edited by Ec]-[oMaN; Apr 22, 2009 at 06:32 PM // 18:32.. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 07:16 PM // 19:16
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#48 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Profession: Mo/A
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Change amity, it's useless.
Re-do mending for PVP. So it gives X health X seconds but takes off a condition or, does SOMETHING to make it wanted. Warriors should go back to adrenaline based characters, warriors endurance is ridiculously broken. Fix for PVP, allow it to be different in PVE. PnH needs to be nerfed in some way, perhaps the cast time. Buff SoD, it's a skill that takes skill and prediction to use. Reward skills that take skill to use, and punish those that don't. Aegis is easy to use, ridiculously easy to use. Buff purge signet to 1 second cast not 2. PoD - Nerf. IWAY - Nerf in PVP, buff in PVE. ZB - Buff Bl - Buff Withdraw Hexes - Buff Lingering Curse - Nerf Powerblock - Slight Nerf. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40
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#49 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New York City
Guild: Retired
Profession: W/E
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reading thru this thread made me kinda sick. some of u people are worse/dumber then izzy is. im glad most of u are not in charge of balancing this game.
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Apr 22, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28
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#50 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2008
Profession: W/
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Quote:
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Apr 22, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29
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#51 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: Commence Aggro [BaMf]
Profession: Mo/E
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Quote:
Then what would you do? |
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30
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#52 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: netherlands
Profession: Mo/E
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eeeuh, yeah lots of lame things, yeah lets nerf fast casting Q_Q
buff some para PvE skills, imba gets boring after about, hmm, 3 minutes. some small ideas: lingering curse, remove the aoe effect peace and harmony, make 1 sec casting time shadow form is impossible to balance, nerf would mean no farming anymore, and like this, well its overpowered. only thing i can think of is to make it not maintainable, 1 sec gap or so and remove the lose health. but this would make UW farming dead like meat, and its fun with vent so i dont want it to be nerfed xD 1 sec gap, 1 aatxe lol and for distrortion, add this in PvP version: if you are an ele, you lose over 9000 health would be fun to see lol, maybe disables your non mesmer skills for 2 3 sec when ends. Last edited by riktw; Apr 22, 2009 at 10:36 PM // 22:36.. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36
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#53 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Profession: Mo/A
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Mikis grammar always makes me chuckle. Air of Enchantment should be able to self target.
Last edited by BarPusher; Apr 22, 2009 at 10:40 PM // 22:40.. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38
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#54 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2008
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The world of Guild Wars has known hatred and violence for nearly four years now. How many have died or suffered for using violence to solve disputes?
We must embrace peace and love while ridding our hearts of anger and violence. Violence will not solve our problems, it is in fact the cause of most. Gandhi once said that he who speaks with anger in his heart speaks from a position of weakness. We must hear this words with an open mind and show compassion to our enemies; only then will we know true victory. If you have heard these words and know the futility of violence I hope you will join my effort in support of the following skill changes: All Skills With Negative Effects: Deleted for lack of constructive purpose. Peace and Harmony: When activated the user will know true happiness; the user will know inner peace and be aware of the connectivity of all things, knowing that one can only find true happiness when all living things around him are harmoniously as one. To support my cause I will not eat until the world of Guild Wars knows true balance. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42
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#55 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: netherlands
Profession: Mo/E
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ow shiii, need to cap PnH than O_O
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42
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#56 |
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Profession: Mo/A
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Well I won't make fun just in case you end up one of these guys shooting up a school and GW gets nerfed from the webz.
P.S Ceiling cat is watching you. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50
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#57 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
Profession: Me/
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Ths may be an unpopular suggestion but far too many of these suggestions strike me as wrong or unnecessary. Some of these may be strong skills but I’m skeptical of nerfing anything with a cast time equal to or greater that one second unless it’s heavily spammed to an extreme effect. Also, a one second spell is a huge and sometimes unavoidable interrupt liability on most casters, especially monks. For the sake of my sanity I’m ignoring all PvE only skills, but not before I remind at least one of us that the damage on Cry of Pain is conditional on the target having a mesmer hex, not the interrupt.
Starting with things related to Elementalists: Glyph of Renewal: While I admit it makes for a pretty mean mesmer bar, it’s still a one second cast elite glyph that telegraphs the next spell as important. Important mesmer spells are usually longer than one second casts, which makes me hesitate, because it makes them vulnerable to disruption, which almost all warrior, paragon, sin, and especially ranger builds should carry. The mesmer is a high priority target for precisely that reason, this is common knowledge. If people are getting hit with three shames consecutively (that’s like 10 second of spell spamming) then something’s wrong likely with one’s teammates or possibly the monk himself. That said, many of the proposed changes to GoR probably wouldn’t make that big of a difference. Energy Blast: A two second spike skill that does exactly what it’s supposed to do, no other functions. I suppose it can be spammed but there are so many ways of dealing with it. See how much damage it deals after a GoR’d power leak -> power leak chain, and leave it alone. In an organized match someone will call a spike and you will prot the target, in unorganized matches it’s a waste of a skill IMO because there are faster more efficient ways to solo kill something all through the ele lines. Windborne: I’ve never seen a problem with this to be honest. It’s been around a while and has always been pretty straightforward. Ether Prism: If you have to, hit the energy gain. Three out of 15 seconds is fine; it’s certainly not distortion. If an ele switches this on to survive a spike of damage, they deserve to live. Bsurge: Read above, carelessly throwing blind on everything has becoming a lot harder to maintain, and less effective as a strategy. A competent warrior with a rune of clarity and a matching shield can cut the blindness almost in half. Factor in monk condition removal and the melee shut down is all but gone. I see this as another high potential anti-spike skill. Ride the Lightning: Are you serious? Why you’d want to be this close to anything as a caster is beyond me. This is only used in RA, and no skill changes should be made with RA as a basis. Mirror of Ice: Really a spike assist skill, adding the damage to the water hexes would make it easier to prot, because it would trigger spirit and bond. Mesmer: Distortion: Are we sure the problem here isn't its abuse on eles who can maintain it constantly despite the hefty energy penalty by spamming that one ele e-management skill? Without mind blast it’d have the same issue supporting that cost as every other caster that wishes it could use it but don’t. Personally, I’d like to use it on my mesmer, so a move to FC would be fine with me. Also to end this Mesmer-distortion viability debate, I run it in RA on my Dom Mes with 13 Domination, at least 9 FC and 10 Illusion, it works quite well. Mantra of Recovery: As much as I’d like to see a maintainable MoR I see people having more problems with that than they do GoR. Visions of Regret: Definitely strong, but it needs to be. Not exactly spammable, it’s a two second cast, spiteful spirit on crack that lasts for 40% less time and has twice the recharge. If your ranger or mesmer lets it through and it lands on more than one person because your all clumped up, then you’re getting your just deserts. If it lands you can bet it’ll be covered, so figure out ways to not let it land. Also, use PnH. If it must be hit, it should not fall below seventy damage. Removal of the AOE clause may also work. Wastrel’s Worry: Without VoR/Backfire/Diversion to make it stick, this skill laughably useless. Look at those skills instead, or better yet don’t. Shatterstorm: If you’re going to nerf the stupid mes elite that no one uses perhaps you should nerf the superior, easily accessible, necromancer non-elite counterpart that everyone uses first. <-[Rend enchantments] Mantra of Concentration: If we’re going to buff it, we should do it right and make it comparable to pious concentration at below 20r. Mantra of Resolve: If were going to hit mantra of resolve like this then we could also drop the energy penalty off of it entirely, and have it scale from 1…10…15 with inspiration investment or something. Of course, with all the interrupt skills available to mesmers and rangers, I don’t really think it should be touched at all. Power Block: I don’t know what to say, one hand, lower cost means I don’t fear missing with this as much which means I use it without hesitation, which typically means I hit more stuff. Along those same lines this, unlike that fake Mesmer skill VoR (/end sarcasm), is a real mesmer skill that will bring real mesmers back (more back than they are now). On the other side of the equation, the recharge doesn’t change which means I can’t shut down as effectively. I’d rather keep the status quo. Fast Casting: The only bar mesmers are playing significantly better than other professions is the fast cast water ele (both variations). Not that dramatic IMO, and with typical mesmer bars like the dom standard being phased out of high level pvp areas I’m not sure what purpose the class would serve if their primary attribute only applied to their skill pool. Monk: Peace and Harmony: This spell makes hexers cry. It’s insane, practically uninterruptible, small heal, condition removal as a bonus, and then an enchantment? I feel like complaining about hexes is pointless as long as this spell is around so, as an earlier poster said, pick your poison. Signet of Devotion: A buff to a one second cast doesn’t seem like it’d make that big of a difference, so why not? Word of Healing: I use to complain about the obnoxious heal this allows. Now I use my ping to power block/leak it or dshot it, if I can’t otherwise disable it, into submission. Leave it alone. Healing Hands: Lulz Healing Light: Lulz, this is what WoH is for. Ethereal Light: Some skills have to remain bad so that people learn to use other skills. Jesus Beam: Leave it alone, it’s smiting AOE arguable less effective than Balthazar’s Aura, two second cast, once every 20 seconds…It’s got enough disadvantages, in PvP at least, that I see no reason to touch this. It’s impossible not to notice this spell and move out of AOE. Strength of Honor: Maintained enchantments have to be powerful to be worth it. I’m inclined to say this is fine. Mending (Really?): My opinion, simplified: Bad skills are bad. Some of these bad skills have to stay bad so that people learn why good skills are good. Mending is an exemplary bad skill in PvP, and probably in PvE; it’s a learning tool. Necromancer: Lingering Curse: I know how frustrating it is to stay alive through this, so I would be open to a decrease in the healing penalty, and the AOE…if PnH wasn’t around to clean things up. Foul Feast: Decrease the energy gain if you must. Plague Sending: If more than one person is getting hit with this spread out. Otherwise it’s just a one second spell with health sac. I guess a recharge increase wouldn’t hit the spell too hard. But I’m skeptical. Weaken Knees: Because it’s a one second cast I default to “leave it alone” but yeah this does seem a bit draconic to me given how much people really have to move to stay alive. I kind of feel though, if I’m a warrior or related class and I’ve got WK on me I’ve got more problematic hexes to worry about. Then again, in some arenas when you may or may not have PnH on demand this could singlehandedly end people. In summation I’ve not had to put up with this often enough to decide one way or another. Dervish: Wounding Stike: Switch the order the conditions apply, people have suggested this for over a year. Pious Concentration: Fine in my opinion, you could have it start scaling from one second if need be, but more than that seems excessive. Ebon Dust Aura: I’ve not been bothered by this all that often. Avatar of Melandru: I’d love to see an AoM return, at first before I start bitching about how annoying they are to kill. Sounds fun. Why not? Ritualist: Protective was Kaolai: I really don’t see anything wrong with this. Recuperation: Or this. Byron, my hats off to you I think you’ve covered the major things pretty well; everything else feels just a bit extraneous. Too much of the “imbalance” these skill create can be compensated by playing differently (interrupting higher priority skills, generally disrupting things, spreading out to keep AOE from hitting several people, bringing PnH) to warrant actual mechanic change. In terms of changing skills to add flavor, variety, or just make them useful, I feel that ANET should focus on creativity more than anything. Last edited by What if...; Apr 22, 2009 at 10:56 PM // 22:56.. Reason: clarity of point |
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Apr 22, 2009, 11:38 PM // 23:38
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#58 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: May 2008
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@Byron - I agree with you that the skills you mentioned are the ones most in need of tweaking, aside from Mind Blast. PnH is overpowered because it thrashes almost every casual source of hexing and / or Dazed, eg. Migraine can destroy every kind of Monk (including those with Hex Breaker), but it is powerless against PnH. Foul Feast is too easy to spam and returns conditions to you. Warrior's Endurance gives lots of damage, which is power creep. They should all be nerfed.
I've had mixed feelings about Lingering Curse, especially after watching omegaspikes and such dominate obs mode. The point is that to break through that kind of defense you need some massive pressure tool. Lingering Curse fits that criterion, although it is still exceedingly hard to punch through. Lingering is obviously essential to any pressure build, but it fits the idea of 'pressure build' quite well. It can't spike, and it can't split as well as other templates either. On the other hand it deals an incredible amount of pressure. Somewhere along the line, even though it fits its niche above, it must break down - eg. if Lingering did 66% healing reduction, it would still be a pressure skill that can't spike (OK, so 66% healing reduction makes it fairly spiky as well) and split well, but it would collapse defenses so fast you'd need three Monks to keep up, possibly more. Therefore I think right now Lingering is on the overpowered side. You need PnH to keep up with it and give you some time to react. Without PnH you die really fast indeed. Even with PnH it's still easy to pressure you out. The skill deals too much pressure, but it fills its niche. I think a fair change would be 33% healing reduction -> 20%, which is the equivalent of Deep Wound on all hexed targets minus the -100 health. It's still major, but it won't be overwhelming pressure. On the other hand, I do wonder what it'd take to break through layers upon layers of defense ... The other skill you mentioned is Mind Blast. I agree with Echo here actually, I've even found the Mind Blast template fairly unimpressive. Here's why - the Mind Blast template is only effective against certain builds. Take a typical Warrior or Derv and put it against it, the E/Me will win no problems. Take a not-so-typical build against it though and you can shatter it like glass breaking on hard rocks. I spend a lot of time in RA myself, and I face it quite a bit, presumably because the build is so strong in GvG. But I usually have little problems thrashing the build, I've even won 1v2s against the build + something else without having a build specialized to taking casters down. I ran Dual Attunements for this, and of course Dual Attunements is highly dangerous, in that if you lose the attunements you're very weak worthless. In this sense it's a high risk gamble - you play a high risk build, pray that the counters to you aren't on the other team, and then reap the rewards. Mind Blast is a relatively low risk build - you play it, the counters to you are a lot smaller and don't counter it as hard, but you are less effective in general (if nothing else, you can't defend your team aside from that odd KD via Meteor). So do you call the template overpowered? Only against the right kind of damage! Mo/W's are essentially invulnerable against a single Warrior, so are E/Me Mind Blasters. Yet put the same E/Me against degen - and there are a lot of degen builds around - and it dies. What is E/Me Mind Blast vs. Blood Necro, or E/Me Mind Blast vs. Shattering Assault Assassin, or any kind of caster damage for that matter? They are hardly invulnerable they are very vulnerable. It's just that the tools to take them down aren't in the meta. Leave them in the meta a bit longer and maybe counter builds to them will start surfacing. ***** It's a long post, summary - Nerf: PnH, Lingering (33% healing reduction -> 20%), Warrior's Endurance, Foul Feast. Don't change: Mind Blast Other mechanics changes I want to see - 1. Possible way to encourage protting against spikes (instead of getting an otherwise well-timed Spirit Bond removed by Pain of Disenchantment for example) - make it so that an enchantment cannot be removed within two seconds of it going up by enemies (so you can Signet of Pious Light to remove Patient Spirit or something). 2. Elementalist Attunements needs some protection against removal. They're great energy management, but take them down and the Elementalist (or Mesmer) suddenly has severe energy problems. It's a universal problem from the Dual Attunements bar I had above to the Mind Blast template - I think also that it's partly because of this that Elementalist damage is so unreliable. I suggest making all attunements recharge 50% faster if it is removed prematurely; this seems the only way since as long as deep enchant strips are available you can't run Aura of Restoration as a cover. |
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Apr 22, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57
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#59 |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada bro.
Profession: A/D
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Still want my sin update T_T
Dash last 5 seconds please and thank you. |
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Apr 23, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03
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#60 |
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jan 2006
Profession: Me/
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My mesmer and I fully support a five second dash, also revert the recharge on Diversion to ten seconds, pls. Thanks
Edit: I think the stronger ele builds can manage at least a while with out their atttunements, and in the case of dual attunements the difficulties of having both attunements renewed is a fair trade off for pretty much being able to spam spells indefinitely without it. It's an unavoidable disadvantage that you should prepare for. In fact the same thing is true in all cases of unintended enchantment removal. the clumsiness of running dual attunments is part of the reason why a lot of builds forsake it entirely for Glyph of Lesser Energy. On Mind Blast: Apparently it's silly OP e-management which provides a small amount of damage and powers distortion amoung other things. It must be evil Last edited by What if...; Apr 23, 2009 at 12:20 AM // 00:20.. |
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