Curse

Hanging Man · May 26, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

I'd say run both actually.
two competent warriors should be able to know when to land bulls strike on a kiter
and for the not-so-competent warriors they can run fear me.
personally i'd just say bulls is better

Nadia Roark · May 26, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

The only reason that build wins is dchop spam and spirits staying up too long against bad teams.

Well, in my experience, sometimes teams lose because they can't find a good way to pressure both the backline and the PnH at the same time. I can still "Make Haste!" my healers if my ass is on the ground, so assuming the rest of the backline knows what it's doing IWAY actually has a fair amount of survivability. The problem with it is that enemy prots know that all damage is melee damage, which makes guardian effective (assuming spirits are off the board) no matter who you cast it on. Unless you're completely dense, there's rarely such a thing as "wasted prot" against IWAY, whereas in other builds you can fail and cast guardian on someone taking caster damage and lose energy, a prot, and a potentially valuable second of casting time.

IWAY also kind of assumes that the other team is going to screw up. If you don't waste spells, know when to fake and how to avoid taking a Bull's Strike KD, you'll probably win. The teams that I've lost to 1v1 have had backlines that could do this and frontlines that were smart enough to chain KD me and not the eles (psst.. AoS ftw).

Still, assuming everybody stays alive on the IWAY team, you're still right. If they win it will because of key dchops like 5 minutes in, or something stupid like a key res sig being d-shotted by the ghost. It doesn't take a staggering amount of intelligence to win like this, but you might be shocked at how few people actually manage to possess it.

deluxe · May 26, 2009, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morgoth the dark

Like the rank in iway matters lolol

You would be surprised.
You don't get a streak of 12 wins and 4 hoh holds with r6 iway. Simple as that.

qvtkc · May 26, 2009, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

You would be surprised.
You don't get a streak of 12 wins and 4 hoh holds with r6 iway. Simple as that.

yes you do

TheHaxor · May 26, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

You don't get that with IWAY period

terrible build is terrible

Killed u man · May 26, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

You would be surprised.
You don't get a streak of 12 wins and 4 hoh holds with r6 iway. Simple as that.

Unlikely

Assume a random 33% chance to win for the unranked pug:

1/3*1/3*1/3*1/3*1/3 = 1/81...

Thats about a 1.2% chance for a team to win HoH 4 times through random chance. (With cap points and relic run)

So yeah, I can see it happen

deluxe · May 26, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHaxor

You don't get that with IWAY period

terrible build is terrible

Oh okay, thanks for the info... I do seem to remember it, maybe I dreamt it.

Nadia Roark · May 26, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Oh okay, thanks for the info... I do seem to remember it, maybe I dreamt it.

Yeah heh.. I don't disagree that iway is a bad build, but if he thinks bad builds never win (or hold) I don't think I know quite what to say. Iway is holding as I type this, I think.

vinoth · May 26, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

I think most people who come to this forums play primarily during American times, where the general quality of the team is a lot short of amazing. The average iway during those times can be reffered to as free fame fodder.

In euro times, early morning, reasonably good iways form and its easy for them to hold once they get to hoh.

Eventually, during peak euro hours the good iways form, that farm r14 teams flawless on a consistent basis. Only team thats hard to beat is a good blood way (N/A necs).

within the last month, i once had a 10 streak hold (15 consec), and numerous 5 streak holds (not this does not count the other maps).

I see it as a totally viable build, but as with any build, u need the right people to run it. If the ranger cant put spirits/fake cast/rupt song, u cant win many maps. If your monk cant soc/remove hex and kite snares- u lose courtyard + hoh + split maps. If your wars are not smart, u can lose any map. If your eles dont position play, u can potentially lose uw. Also if your pnh positions himself as he plays in a balance team, your iway is probably not going to flawless every team it sees.

There is no surefire way of beating iway. the standard ele/mes camp ranger style of iway is free fame. Unless, u run b-spike(the N/A version) flawlessly.

But back on topic. As far as i kow fear me became extinct over a month ago.

bitchbar player · May 26, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

lol proud iwayer lol

pigdestroyer · May 26, 2009, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I cant see how IWAY is any worse than the eurocrap people run (sh,ug etc).

Nadia Roark · May 27, 2009, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigdestroyer

I cant see how IWAY is any worse than the eurocrap people run (sh,ug etc).

Well, it's harder to backline for a balanced team; I think that's what it comes down to more than anything else. The thing about IWAY is that half the team are hard targets, and if the PnH is smart, s/he is too. I only have 3 command shields presently, but still, that means I have base 76 AL against everything and 86 AL versus Fire, Piercing, and Blunt damage...as a monk. It's very easy to see the difference in the pressure your team takes between playing, say, PnH or prism versus protting or healing a balanced team.

Midlining is also a bit harder than following the same guy around and spamming dchop/dismember/agonizing/bulls on recharge, in my opinion. That's just an outsider's view though, since I've never done anything but backline.

Lux Aeterna · May 27, 2009, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Vinoth, are you saying that during euro time euros form reasonably decent iways to fight other reasonably decent euro iways?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

following the same guy around and spamming dchop/dismember/agonizing/bulls on recharge

Also what's this about wars in HA never switching targets? All the other wars I played with would literally chase someone around for 30 seconds at a time. I'd call a target, rip it up till it blocked once, then switch to something nearby - and the other war would go right on chasing through guardian/SB.

Morgoth the dark · May 27, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

You would be surprised.
You don't get a streak of 12 wins and 4 hoh holds with r6 iway. Simple as that.

neither does with r9/12+

TheHaxor · May 27, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinoth

within the last month, i once had a 10 streak hold (15 consec), and numerous 5 streak holds (not this does not count the other maps).

oh wow! what an accomplishment!

IWAY is a build meant to farm bad players. Building to beat other bad players is something a bad player would do. You can't consistently hold on any map type with IWAY. I'm not saying you can't hold, but you can't do it consistently. The only way this happens is if the other two teams are THAT bad.

FYI my guild (nWa/Nion) used to do what you just stated every single night when I was playing with them and the only build containing IWAY that we lost to during that time was dongway (on annihilation, but we crushed it on any tactical map). We used to play Euro hours extensively. All those IWAYs are just as trash as the ones that form late at night except the Euros were more fun to shit talk because they would tell us to get eat more cheeseburgers

Warvic · May 27, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Hi, I'm under r3, so unranked. I see people talking BULL in here. people say that high ranks only use bull. well I play alot of Iway lately, coz as unranked HA player I can go mathway,RTL or Iway. so I pick iway (duh?) I do not have a HA guild, so I pug. And in all my pugs (unranked, somtimes ranked) nobody used fear me over bull strike. So that means almost everyone uses bull strike. I also saw people saying that unranked people can't use bull properly. well I can use it very good. I think everyone knows how to use it after a few matches. And as many said, people kite so bull strike is better then fear me.

Reverend Dr · May 27, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Warriors are meant to do damage. It doesn't matter if you are running a 'legitimate' build or a gimmick. Warriors do damage. Trying to run them as something else is always going to result in less than ideal build.

The guy that said 3 backbreaker and infuriating heat is onto something here. Warrior heavy with an adrenaline engine can be very formidable. However, battle rage (also the old steady stance) suffers from several problems. Firstly it takes 4 of the team's elites, this is just a colossal expenditure. Second, it has terrible bar compression. The most important reason is that there is nothing to spend the adrenaline on; fear me? dismember with no +damage?

We've had success with Dongway because it does something almost no other (I've talked to a minority of people that don't run the common 'fear me' flavor) IWAY has: damage.

It doesn't matter what kind of warrior you are running, ES, backbreaker, WE, shock axe, IWAY, you make them to deal damage first. Then any extra utility you can squeeze onto them makes them better.

Nadia Roark · May 28, 2009, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

The guy that said 3 backbreaker and infuriating heat is onto something here..

"Coward!" + Infuriating Heat is pretty badass too, assuming you can keep the spirits up. I never form the parties so I never get to decide the builds, but if I did, I'd run 2 "Coward!" warriors and 2 ES warriors under Infuriating Heat. But for some reason a lot of people have been trying to run IWAY with swords lately, which surprises me because I thought meta IWAY couldn't get any weaker. Shows what I know!

deluxe · May 28, 2009, 05:28 AM // 05:28

Infuriating heat would only work against you, think about what happens when you face a battlerage iway

Also, relying on a elite spirit is kind of meh. You lose oathshot and it will be down in no time. Even though it has a 15 sec recharge iirc.

superraptors · May 28, 2009, 08:12 AM // 08:12

kd = drop the team faster

edenial = pressure out long run

i honestly think bulls is better, due to the fact that monks can get make hasted and kite you like crazy even with battle rage ud be sniffing his arse the whole game, a bulls on a backline can open up kills much faster

and in HA it aint fkn hard to channel tank the pets as a monk so fear me is worthless
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