Curse

Stoella · Jun 05, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I'm confused now.

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Jun 05, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

PBlock is a great skill but its outclassed by PD because there is sooooo much damage in HA that to wipe a team you only need to pleak channeling and shame the prot and you may aswell have pblocked him. the time where PBlock would out do PD is prolly on 2way KotH and THEY are holding - but you shouldnt be building for that tbh.

I dont know what monks you play against in tombs but during non-euro hours if you put a shame on a prot monk and stop channeling that doesnt even come close to whiping a team. It's probably different vrs euros though

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

after that if you NEED your elite to wipe out defensive chars then you are playing mesmers wrong.

you don't need your elite to whipe them out but it is better for holding, relic runs, and virtually every other game type but alter cap. also I know maybe with rank 6+ teams or whatever you can inturrupt a ghost a bunch of times and just stay alive and get capture points, but if you play my team your mesmer is going to get diversion put on him(by our mesmer who ISNT blacked out, go figure) and knock locked, so have fun pding our ghost on the floor. You can shock/hammer bash the song of conc and then cry the ghost once, then leach. If your ghost hasnt capped by third attempt something else is wrong anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dpagona83

Solo mes as lone interrupter - PD .

Mes and a ranger - PB .

this is the exact perception that everyone seems to have that is exactly the reason why there are no good mesmers now. sure if you do pve or ra or whatever a mesmer and ranger are "inturrupters" but in high end pvp they are much more. if anything pd is better with a ranger because
1. you are going for a more inturrupt-based build and pd is going to be more effective
2. your mesmer is gonna hit dshots/savages on skills you may have pbd

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

PD is way more versatile and has way more uses in HA than PB does. If you already have a competent team that has enough means to pressure/kill without actually needing PB, you will get so many extra uses out of PD. Sure you can pblock a monk and then score a couple kills.. but beyond that there isn't much else you can do with it. With PD you can provide so much more in terms of utility.

People just keep saying pd is "more versitile" but the only two arguements ive heard so far is

1. Stopping sigs - When i play guild wars, scoring kills means that I've pressured their team out to the point where the monks cannot heal a target and it dies. If you land a kill they just cant suddenly have the ability to save more people. If you are running 5 defensive guys with spike skills yeah I can see why stopping sigs is better, but if they are using sigs they are already dead. If a team is whiping under pressure and your mesmer does completely nothing but spam pd on res sigs, basically you are killing a player, going up 8v7 and then making one of your guys useless and going 7v7. If anything you are just giving their monks a chance to come back.

2. iway - already went over this earlier, if you cant kill iway without pd then bring it but it doesnt mean that its better. if you can kill iway without pd then dont birng it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarra june

qft...........!

good arguement

I'm guessing that euros only run pd because when they land kills it is not consistent and they need to use the pd to stop res sigs and finish killing, but I just cant comprehend what you guys keep saying about stopping res sigs. if they are dead, THEY ARE DEAD.

this is just so painful to read people that say that putting yourself in a situation when there is only one skill on your skillbar makes you more versatile. honestly just read what you are typing

Ciric · Jun 05, 2009, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Run Psychic Instability mesmers.. /thred

Stoella · Jun 05, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Then it just seems that PB is better. Am I right ?

Phe Belladona · Jun 06, 2009, 05:33 AM // 05:33

are you seriously trying to turn this into an american vs europe battle? cause americans are jokes..

PD is better dont listen to the liars and idiots

lutz · Jun 06, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

2. iway - already went over this earlier, if you cant kill iway without pd then bring it but it doesnt mean that its better. if you can kill iway without pd then dont birng it.

Actually, Power Block is basically autowin vs. IWAY, because their only healing is E/Rts. Power Block an E/Rt and shit on the other E/Rt with Shame and Diversion, and you've effectively shut down all of their healing.

scruffy · Jun 06, 2009, 06:49 AM // 06:49

why do people still discuss toomz, all it is is stomping a bunch of shitters and then getting ganged up on once you win ...aka a poor investment of time slightly ahead of banging your head against the wall but still behind watching paint dry.

Power Block is 10x better than PD. Oh you can use PD on the Ghostly Hero? Cool. It's a shame that I've already pblocked your monk and killed your hero. GG no re.

Stoella · Jun 07, 2009, 08:42 AM // 08:42

I'm all confused. I can't see what to believe, there's nothing that lets me judge ...

Oh wait, I got an idea. "scruffy" is a cool name, I'll trust him.

How else could I judge pd vs pb ?

Nadia Roark · Jun 07, 2009, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

ive had infintely times more losses with a team who is eliminated ganking us then i have from needing an inturrupt on a ghost and not having pd.

So true. I think it's a bit of a flaw for KoTH scoring to work like it does, since any 1v1v1 match implicitly encourages ganks anyway simply by having an odd number of teams. In 99% of situations, one team will realize they can't win after a minute or two, and it turns into more of a "who do we gank" metagame. I can't begin to count all the times I've been ganked by people I've never heard of before; people keep talking about how small the community is but I keep running into folks (gwg kids, I would imagine) I've never heard of who apparently hate me with a burning passion. Maybe some of them think I'm the other Nadia (who, by the way, I had heard mention of for years but had somehow managed to never see until a couple weeks ago, when I joined her guild).

As for PD vs PB I can't really say since I don't make builds and I don't play mes; both have their advantages but I tend to agree with Natures on most points. Arguing its superiority on the grounds that it can interrupt rezzes is ridiculous; but I suppose it depends on what you're trying to shut down with said mesmer. PD pretty much owns ranger spirit spammers, but PB is a lot better in general on a good mesmer. I wouldn't take a PD just for shutting down a spirit spammer and the ghostly, but lots of people seem to disagree.

Destiny2097 · Jun 07, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Power Block an E/Rt and shit on the other E/Rt with Shame and Diversion, and you've effectively shut down all of their healing.

pblock on 1 ele is easy enough, but for diversion & shame spam...say hello to nr, agonising and dchop

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Jun 07, 2009, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

are you seriously trying to turn this into an american vs europe battle? cause americans are jokes..

PD is better dont listen to the liars and idiots

you have a very convincing arguement
I say american vs euro because i play mesmer for tombs a ton, and americans NEVER run pd while euros NEVER run pb. And if i may interject, if americans are jokes why are europeans the only people playing a dead game. all of the good players left when they removed all reasonable prizes from gvg and tombs

Hanging Man · Jun 07, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I'd take PB over PD.
Juts the fact you can effectively shut down a healer or caster for 16seconds is more impressive than an interrupt

Edwards · Jun 07, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoella

I'm all confused. I can't see what to believe, there's nothing that lets me judge ...

Oh wait, I got an idea. "scruffy" is a cool name, I'll trust him.

How else could I judge pd vs pb ?

Play a few matches with a PD, then switch to PB and judge for yourself. Which elite is better is highly situational. It depends on what you're running, what you want to accomplish, and what you're playing against.

Stopping rezzes is more valuable that some people in this thread would have you believe though. Not all that many kills really come solely from pressuring the opposing team's monks to 0 energy. If their monks slip up and one of them gets KD'd in AoE or misses a spike, then keeping him down--especially keeping him from getting pacted can win you the game.

Sai Rith · Jun 07, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Glyph of Renewal Memsers>PD+PB COMBINED

Stoella · Jun 07, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

I played a few matches with PB and PD ...

I found PB alot more useful in matches, big blackout every 10-20 seconds (40/40 set) is frightening, especially when you can shit at other people during the blackout.

It's true rez control or key skills shutdown is nice ... but in my experience not nice enough compared to PB. It may only be a skill prefered because of KotH ...?

That's why I'm asking, since around 3/4 of the guys I play with want PD, and 1/4 want PB.

And I'm euro.

Nadia Roark · Jun 08, 2009, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwards

Stopping rezzes is more valuable that some people in this thread would have you believe though...

I'm sorry, but no. There are a million skills that can interrupt rez sigs (it's got a three second cast for Christ's sake): arguing that PD has merit on the grounds that it can stop a guy from sigging is just insane. If you can pressure a team enough to cause a death (whether the monk has 0 energy or not!!!) you can usually start building off the DP at that point, assuming you're standing up to the other team's pressure.

Teams tend to carry more than one rez sig. If you've pressured a team enough for PD to be "good" at shutting down rezzes, I have news for you: you've already won. If they're down to one sig and you're just PDing it over and over again, you'd probably still win anyway if you just let him rez.

Phe Belladona · Jun 08, 2009, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadia Roark

I'm sorry, but no. There are a million skills that can interrupt rez sigs (it's got a three second cast for Christ's sake): arguing that PD has merit on the grounds that it can stop a guy from sigging is just insane. If you can pressure a team enough to cause a death (whether the monk has 0 energy or not!!!) you can usually start building off the DP at that point, assuming you're standing up to the other team's pressure.

Teams tend to carry more than one rez sig. If you've pressured a team enough for PD to be "good" at shutting down rezzes, I have news for you: you've already won. If they're down to one sig and you're just PDing it over and over again, you'd probably still win anyway if you just let him rez.

some ppl can PD more than one res sig and hard res at a time, but if you cant stay to your limitations and whats best for you.

if ppl insist on not reading my detail'd reasons why PD is better in HA thats up to you. since no one has actually come back with anything other than "LOL prot cant cast" (some of you not even knowing how long PBlock disables for at 14 dom -.-) but doesnt see that the prot is shut down to nothing by the nonelite skills on that bar and the extreme damage prevelant in HA makes pblocks disable not as special and effective as it would be in gvg as things die without much mesmer effort. not to mention having three 20sec recharge interupts doesnt help if you wanna interupt profane, song and ghost while actually doing other things within a shortish period of time, or.. oh ffs i've already said all the other reasons on cap points and relics. go take pblock fail to hit my diversions with it (ON AMERICAN SERVERS!) and go farm UW until you get 1v1 halls.

Nimble Night · Jun 08, 2009, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

if americans are jokes why are europeans the only people playing a dead game.

Sometimes people play computer games for fun.

Nadia Roark · Jun 08, 2009, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phe Belladona

if ppl insist on not reading my detail'd reasons why PD is better in HA thats up to you...

Hahaha, I love how "if ppl insist on not reading..." transists into "that's up to you." Passive-aggressive defined!

But seriously, I'm not pretending to make any qualified judgement calls on PB vs PD, since (like I wrote) I don't make builds and I don't play mes. I'm just saying that arguing PD's superiority on the grounds that it can interrupt rez is, to be frank, retarded. If your team has enough pressure/coordination to kill something, it should have enough pressure to kill something else too.

I think if you're going to argue for PD, you should do it on the grounds that it is better at keeping enemy Ghostlies from capping altars, and that it can shut down iway spirit spammers in perpetuity. But--like I also wrote (hey, if you want to get indignant about people not reading your posts, I'll go ahead and do it to)--I suppose it depends on what said mesmer is supposed to be shutting down. As a monk, PB is obviously more of a pain in my ass, but PD has its uses against other classes and the Ghostly.

Also, as a career prot, I disagree with your assertion that pdrain on channeling + shame is as good as a power block. Not only does it take longer to execute, but if the prot you're using it on has a neuron and an axon to rub together for warmth, he'll just wait a few seconds and swap to his high energy set for a few more if it's really a problem. I tend to play with sword + shield by default, and I don't even carry the +15e wand/offhands anymore; if I need more energy I just swap to my +5e sword and offhand if I need to pump off a couple casts before I can get my channeling back. Losing channeling is usually not that big of a deal for me unless its on an altar map. Shame is basically a glorified Diversion (a smart monk will cast through neither for obvious reasons, and they have similar durations) and I've not lost many matches on account of either hex. Situational hexes like Diversion and Shame rely on either clutch timing--which is rare--or the monk not watching his hexes/conditions in which case he's a bad monk to begin with so GG.

Marxon Aurion · Jun 08, 2009, 08:17 AM // 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

you have a very convincing arguement
I say american vs euro because i play mesmer for tombs a ton, and americans NEVER run pd while euros NEVER run pb. And if i may interject, if americans are jokes why are europeans the only people playing a dead game. all of the good players left when they removed all reasonable prizes from gvg and tombs

I still find it quite ironic that you are apparently an American who also plays. Which means you are among the 'only people playing a dead game'. Therefore, you are getting yourself with your own witty post. Good job.