Curse

Killed u man · Jun 21, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

We all know Life Stealing, mainly Bspam here, in it's current form is OP. Before you go: It's still not a viable option in a AT/mAT, we all know the only reason it isn't, is because Bspike guilds are only good at running Bspike, thus when you face them, you KNOW you're facing the build, and thus, you can build wars it.

The matter of fact is, is that the build, when played correctly, is unbeatable by any conventional, what we people refer to as, balanced build.

But I'm not going to discuss why Bspam/spike is overpowered, we all know it is.

I'm suggesting a small change to the Life Stealing mechanic, perhaps ONLY for the blood magic line, maybe for ALL forms of life stealing (including vamp weapons):

Life Stealing: Steal XX life from target foe. Can not steal more life than your maximum HP.

I might have worded it wrong here, but let me quickly explain:

A life stealing effect ONLY takes place if you're NOT at full HP. So you can ONLY "steal" life from target foe, if you actually have the ability to place that stolen life on your HP bar.

This should make single, or multiple necro's using life stealing still relativly viable (if they ever were?!), but against the infamous N/A bspike, who'se necro's often are at max HP, it will definatly reduce it's affect on every XX spell.

I know dark pact, aswell as other HP sacrifice skills will make this not affect every spell, but it will definatly make sure that not every life stealing spells goes through.

Thoughts?

Div · Jun 21, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

There have been other thoughts on life stealing change by making it damage + life gain so prots can actually trigger against it. However, the end verdict is that it's too hard to code that in (which doesn't really make sense since they already have a system to do damage and gain life...)

What you're proposing is another potential solution, but it's probably even "harder to code" than the one I mentioned.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 21, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Bspike and Bspam are what exactly?

I've never heard of them! :O

MMSDome · Jun 21, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

The whole "harder to code" shows how lazy the people putting out the changes truly are.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 21, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

wow Helix...If you haven't even heard of [i]B-spike and B-Spam[/b], then you really shouldn't be posting in this thread.

I mean if you've never heard of them you're hardly in a position to comment on whether this is a good idea or a bad one and contribute anything.

On topic, I do like this idea but it doesn't actually solve much of the problem when you really think about it.

The reason they are always on full health is because of the health gain, with your idea they only have to take a small amount of damage before they can gain the health back again.

Although maybe I misunderstood and your saying the skill won't actually trigger at all?

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 21, 2009, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Maybe I could contribute if I knew what the were?

And Btw, I know basic life stealing, but I don't PvP that much, doesn't mean I can't contribute, because I don't know what an acronym means

riktw · Jun 21, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

@ helix
Bspike is an HA team build with looooots of necro's spamming life stealing spells.
as it is stealing it cant be countered by protection spells.

making it damage would be good for 55HP monks in PvE but it wont be to bad.
so i prefer making them damage.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Jun 21, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Alternatively just destroy Vampiric Spirit and Unholy Feast so no one in their right mind (or even people that aren't 'in their right mind') will ever run it again.

Saves a lot of precious coding time, and no one would really miss it apart from Vador Eight Below and pals.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 21, 2009, 10:13 PM // 22:13

I actually kinda like bloodspike, it's like free fame.

Then again I haven't played any 'good' bspikers.

Apok Omen · Jun 21, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Vampiric Gaze: Deal 63 damage to target foe. You are healed for 63.

How hard is that? We have skills that do damage and give back health (Victorious Sweep) already.

Krill · Jun 22, 2009, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Angorodon's Gaze (PvP) - 15s recharge
Dark Pact -Double aftercast

I think that would be much easier to code and take care of blood spam without killing a whole bunch of skills or changing game mechanics. Higher angorodon's recharge would give them less energy to power up vamp gaze and unholy feast while double dark pact aftercast would cut down on the skill cycling. Killing vamp spirit would also work I guess but you'd either have to change it's functionality or make it a really shitty skill that wouldn't work at all with blood spam.

House Silvermoon · Jun 22, 2009, 01:18 AM // 01:18

funny thing is that all bspikers seem to think they are good at game and even go so far as to shit talk. i have no mercy for them or love for the blood magic line, smiter's boon all of it. lets see the shitters run a normal build and watch as they drown in their own ineptitude.

Jeydra · Jun 22, 2009, 10:50 AM // 10:50

I must be the only person who thinks there's no need to change bloodspike / bloodspam then ... some points:

1. It is certainly beatable with a balanced build. Bloodspike fared pretty badly this GvG weekend because of the number of Mind Blasters who annihilated the Necroball.
2. Since Rit flaggers were nerfed more guilds run Monk flaggers, and a second copy of WoH does a lot to counter the (largely) unprottable damage.
3. If someone dares to risk this in a match of considerable value (eg. mAT) and guesses right, why shouldn't they deserve to win?

It seems from the posts above that the big reason so many people hate bloodspike is that it takes no skill, and as I've written elsewhere I don't care for skill-based balancing. It's not worth nothing - given two equally desirable options I'd go with the one that requires more skillful play - but it'd take a lot more to convince me that bloodspike should be destroyed.

jaximus · Jun 22, 2009, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Jeydra, so because an already established imbalanced template can beat them, its okay? not really proper logic for an argument. the only saving grace for b spam is that it requires the team to stay together and is vulnerable to split with only a woh flagger for base defense.

sweet555 · Jun 22, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Mitch, thats a really reasonable solution, and yeah bspike would prolly die

but the real issue is, no one has won an MAT with bspike, so Anet feels no need to nerf it, so until someone actually wins with bspike, people should just stop bitching about it. tbh, everytime we play a bspike guild, its a lord race, and ends in 3 mins, so yeah unless we lose an aT or a MAT because of gimmicky bspike, then i really dont care

axe · Jun 22, 2009, 01:27 PM // 13:27

I still like build variety, I would hate to see yet another type of build removed from rotation

No real logic here, just I enjoy build variety, I think the lack of build variety is what allows certain builds to dominate in the first place, but I dont play enough to really offer suggestions

scruffy · Jun 22, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Jeydra, this is pretty much how i feel too, if bloodspike is so overpowered howcome absolutely nobody uses it in mAT's aside from a select few appearances?

its easy to beat with most builds and the builds that cant beat it deserve to get suckerpunched for not using a more flexible build

leave blood spam as it is, get better at the game

Krill · Jun 22, 2009, 01:55 PM // 13:55

Oh gee I don't know, maybe because tourneys have a map rotation?

House Silvermoon · Jun 22, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

what many say about bspike makes sense. but it's kinda silly to have to work so hard to beat a build, and making a small mistake usually causes you to lose the match.

it's risk vs reward. bspike has little skill investment for a big reward. contrary the opposing team has to do a lot to keep up with the pressure of the team, a lot of risk for that same reward.

Massive Impulsa · Jun 23, 2009, 01:47 AM // 01:47

They rly dont need to recode it。

Just nerf the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO out of it， and buff some other spike builds

Shockwave etc。

Rather face that than Bspike.

Moderator's Edit: Removed non-English content.