Curse

xRustyx · Mar 27, 2009, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Yo my Elonian Kariston this game deader than Tupac and even Biggie knows to rest the beef.

Also: Error 7 motherlovers

Evil Neato · Mar 27, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kariston The Swift

Kinda bored and feeling nostalgic so figured I'd see if any old school gvgers still check out these boards?

It's really sad to see the GvG ladder nowadays, the few leftover good players just dominate the remaining pool of players that are left. It'd be really nice if this game made a comeback. I miss running "Humpgort" and wrecking teams in halls and of course all of the hardcore GvG matches from ranger spike on the first ladder with Sand Scorpions to balanced with Canthan Chinese Takeout to pressure builds with Negative Zero.

If there are any oldschool players around who remember me post up and lets see if we can run some GvGs for fun or something.

Hi Karriston!

I don't really play anymore... Quit about a month ago due to complete and utter boredom.

The last real old school group I know of that's still around right now is Diablo III [DIII] with Lucis, Anniahlatino, Wet, Party, Lucky... Eh, I don't really remember who else... Maybe Extreme Orgy, Cross & Starnub. Neo maybe? Dunno, probably not. I'm not even sure if they're still alive or whatever, I assume so. Anyways, you can hit them up if you really want: http://diii.site50.net/forum/index.php

I just come to these forums every now and then, get predictions, then log in to get a free 1400k every month. Dunno why... I figure I may come back some day, may as well have a big stockpile of money when I do. *shrug*

Ensign · Mar 29, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

I don't really understand how people can claim that Prophecies-only was so balanced. Tactics were very primitive even at the top, and people hadn't figured out many of the archetypes until right around the time of GWWC. (Dom Mesmers hadn't solidified their role in GvG until the tournament itself; Ether Prodigy Eles weren't staples until a month or two after the tournament). Are we really thinking of the week or two pre-Factions as the real peak of the game?

The big difference between the game today and the game back then is that now the builds and tactics are relatively well known. You used to be able to get away with a lot of stuff tactically that loses to scripted responses now; VoD tricks went from something unexpected to staple strategy. Build-wise, things got more balanced, and now builds can reasonably expect to deal with everything; there's less to gain from giving someone a different look now.

Prophecies/Factions, and even early Nightfall, had games that were largely won and lost on being a step ahead in build and tactics, and schooling people with things they hadn't adapted to yet. In the current game, there's very little new, and teams win by executing the known, best strategies better than their opponent. A lot of this is simply the game maturing and everyone catching up on strategy with the people who were out in front. The game demands a different set of skills now than it used to, and I feel it's grossly unfair to compare teams across eras because of it.

xRustyx · Mar 29, 2009, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't really understand how people can claim that Prophecies-only was so balanced. Tactics were very primitive even at the top, and people hadn't figured out many of the archetypes until right around the time of GWWC. (Dom Mesmers hadn't solidified their role in GvG until the tournament itself; Ether Prodigy Eles weren't staples until a month or two after the tournament). Are we really thinking of the week or two pre-Factions as the real peak of the game?

The big difference between the game today and the game back then is that now the builds and tactics are relatively well known. You used to be able to get away with a lot of stuff tactically that loses to scripted responses now; VoD tricks went from something unexpected to staple strategy. Build-wise, things got more balanced, and now builds can reasonably expect to deal with everything; there's less to gain from giving someone a different look now.

Prophecies/Factions, and even early Nightfall, had games that were largely won and lost on being a step ahead in build and tactics, and schooling people with things they hadn't adapted to yet. In the current game, there's very little new, and teams win by executing the known, best strategies better than their opponent. A lot of this is simply the game maturing and everyone catching up on strategy with the people who were out in front. The game demands a different set of skills now than it used to, and I feel it's grossly unfair to compare teams across eras because of it.

What the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO you still do serious posts on Guru? Not an insult, I was just surprised you still interact with a game you don't play

Ensign · Mar 29, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Hey now, I log in to watch the MAT and chat with friends!

...and will probably continue to do so until someone manages to make a game worth playing.

Jeydra · Apr 01, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The game demands a different set of skills now than it used to, and I feel it's grossly unfair to compare teams across eras because of it.

Didn't you once comment in a whisper to me, 'why are people so bad these days'?

Still Number One · Apr 01, 2009, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Didn't you once comment in a whisper to me, 'why are people so bad these days'?

That isn't comparing teams, that is just stating how people play really dumb nowadays.

wuzzman · Apr 02, 2009, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

you are wrong JR, 1 deaths charge every 45 seconds never carried a warrior who had bad positioning, same with a monk using return

that idea is laughable tbh, teleports are only good in the hands of good players. if a bad player is using the teleport to tele-spike somebody once every 45 seconds it doesnt matter because he doesnt do anything in the down time anyways.

sure, in the hands of a good player he will have an opportunity to make a good spike every 45 seconds, but he did waste a skill slot for it after all.

I think teleports are fun to watch and fun to use, people take risks on splits when they have teleports not because they are bad but because thats what they brought the skill for, they sacrificed their efficiency for the ability to move around easy.

I think assassins were a good addition to the game, its unfortunate the way they turned out.

A long time ago this game had plenty of options. teams had to account for different balance builds and yes the not so rare spike builds with radically different approaches to winning. And players didn't approach this challenge by crying build wars and besides being a step ahead was always a decent strategy. This was when the game was the most competitive, and real guilds fought each other at all levels of competition. Contrast to know, few options, plenty of build wars tears, and only the very top being actually competitive. This game suffers horribly from bottleneck balance decisions.

wuzzman · Apr 02, 2009, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Hey now, I log in to watch the MAT and chat with friends!

...and will probably continue to do so until someone manages to make a game worth playing.

spellborn is ok if you can stomach the backward design decisions that nearly make you throw up once you realize they want you to pay for the game using an obtuse payment system. I couldn't stop thinking about spending money on a game with a deck system but with vague skill descriptions, no way to test skills, only able to unlock 1 skill per level, and no way to relocate attribute points or look up future skills without your browser on wiki......... i need to start making mmo's...

Srry is My Trademark · Apr 06, 2009, 09:29 AM // 09:29

People say that there are no good players left in the game, and how dead the game is. I only started GvGing recently, and i dont get why people say the game takes no skill. I think there is strategy left in GvG and that it does take skill, if it didnt take skill, why isnt my guild r1?

Ex Death · Apr 06, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Because stupid, clueless people who quit the game a while ago apparently like to correlate how 'dead' the game is with player skill levels.

Divinus Stella · Apr 06, 2009, 05:09 PM // 17:09

I think its funny when people complain about the game being dead and full of bad people but if thats true and they still fail so much in a game full of baddies then it says something about their level of play.

I think its fair to say the game has never really attracted the highest grade of gamers but at the end of the day internet gaming as a whole is a bit of a joke, your not going to impress anyone outside of the gaming community by saying that you are the number 1 halo player in the world and its nothing you can put onto a CV.

minor · Apr 06, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srry is My Trademark

People say that there are no good players left in the game, and how dead the game is. I only started GvGing recently, and i dont get why people say the game takes no skill. I think there is strategy left in GvG and that it does take skill, if it didnt take skill, why isnt my guild r1?

So even though you just started gvging you know how past players compare to todays? Wow your smart.

Its the old apples and oranges debate. the game has changed and so has what it takes to win.

Master Fuhon · Apr 06, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srry is My Trademark

People say that there are no good players left in the game, and how dead the game is. I only started GvGing recently, and i dont get why people say the game takes no skill. I think there is strategy left in GvG and that it does take skill, if it didnt take skill, why isnt my guild r1?

If you want to say a game requires skill, look at this. Skill building is defined as doing a challenging activity in order to develop adaptations to those challenges. Most game players do not seek to build skill; that is why you can accurately describe an activity as skill-less, based on the lack of preparation people have engaged in to become top players. A game is skill-less based on a lack of skill that can possibly be developed by playing the game itself. Throughout the history of guild wars, one could only hope to develop a few skills through playing: there are a few pattern recognizing techniques to figure out how skill interact, but most of the skill is related to having high speed reaction and control involving the brain and hands.

Skill does not correlate with winning. It never has and it never will. There are several factors that can combine to produce winning. This includes: bending rules as far as they are allowed to be bent or getting away with cheating, putting oneself in a state that gives a competitive advantage, putting opponents in a state that provides them a competitive disadvantage, having random probability of events go in a person’s favor, and lastly, ‘skill’ at doing an activity.

The funny thing about the multiple factors of winning that I have listed is that anyone who knows a majority of them does not engage in them as often as a person who doesn’t know any of them. Someone who knows those things has a lesser need to win compulsively. Game makers are not perfectionist enough to design games around skill or particular skills. There is a bare minimum that a person can do to win at any time; one of these shortcuts is to look for a game one can naturally win at instead of trying to develop skill at a losing game.

Winning is instead defined by another term: flow. Flow is the process of doing that which comes easy, which will be things you are already good at. Flow is the process you use after you already have skill. When you already have a skill, flow is when you execute the process repeatedly in order to become faster at doing it.

So, by a really simple combination of the description of these two terms: a game requires skill when no competitor can be in flow. That way, the environment is always producing a learning situation that one must develop a skill to deal with. From that definition alone, one can begin to describe whether one era requires skill or not.

Byron · Apr 06, 2009, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Ensign's always right, close thread.

Srry is My Trademark · Apr 07, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by minor

So even though you just started gvging you know how past players compare to todays? Wow your smart.

Its the old apples and oranges debate. the game has changed and so has what it takes to win.

Why so angry? and mabe u should rerread, i didnt comapre no players, i said "people say".

JR · Apr 07, 2009, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I don't really understand how people can claim that Prophecies-only was so balanced. Tactics were very primitive even at the top...

That's partly why. People were ignorant of how easy it was to play the system, until iQ came along and showed just how easy it is with Glyph Sac + Met Shower. That's one reason why it was so much more fun and is remembered with fondness, but it isn't the only reason.

I agree it's silly to say Prophecies was well balanced, because it wasn't. As you said, there were a lot of things that even the top players hadn't been figured out yet. That said, it's obvious that future additions and power creep imbalanced the game to a much greater degree. With very few exceptions almost every broken build since factions has hinged around a Factions or Nightfall skill or class. Not Prophecies (and most of those exceptions are due to balance updates effecting Prophecies skills that have happened as a result of Fac/NF imbalance to begin with.)

So was Prophecies amazingly well balanced? Not by a long shot, but I do believe it was the least imbalanced era - even once people start to figure out the system and how to abuse it.

Aside from that, I just think a Prophecies only tournament would be a fun distraction, and a reason to jump into the game again. I think even you would be tempted, Ensign.

Burton2000 · Apr 07, 2009, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Aside from that, I just think a Prophecies only tournament would be a fun distraction, and a reason to jump into the game again. I think even you would be tempted, Ensign.

For a prophecies only tournament to work you would have to change so many skills and mechanics that it probably wouldn't be viable. Unless of course you want to play with the current prophecies skills that are nothing like what they used to be.

minor · Apr 07, 2009, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Srry is My Trademark

Why so angry? and mabe u should rerread, i didnt comapre no players, i said "people say".

You said you didn't "get" why ppl say it takes no skill and then admitted you just started gvging.
The point was you have nothing in the past to compare todays game to.
All games take some skill, hell some dudes are skilled at Pac-man.

Anyway let the ppl like ensign and JR who were actually playing the game compare instead of just posting to say you don't get the comparison.

Apok Omen · Apr 07, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Aside from that, I just think a Prophecies only tournament would be a fun distraction, and a reason to jump into the game again. I think even you would be tempted, Ensign.

We've already had this discussion. Apparently, because Anet has SOOOO much to lose, if they do decide to make a Prophecies-only tourney, then they would be admitting they frakked up. However, I could make a strong arguement as to why admitting you frakked up and catering to the whims of your oldest customers would end up boosting your popularity...