Curse

undead living · May 30, 2009, 07:02 AM // 07:02

[edit] FAIL BUILD XD
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more builds and stuff downstairs...XD

Revelations · May 30, 2009, 07:34 AM // 07:34

There are quite a few things that immediately stand out as being wrong with that build. Not trying to be an ass, but these are the problems I see, in no particular order.

Not enough damage.
Spikes are going to be heavily telegraphed by hexes.
Infuse or spirit bond are both going to kill your spike. Minimal enchant removal does not help this.
Too many 2 second casts on those eles. Consider more utility.
No SoC or Aegis for ghostly.
Single hard res is minimal. Keep it down and you wipe.
Not enough hex removal.
Shatter delusions is far superior to drain enchant for the purposes of DW.
Prot monk bar is solid, but could do with a better elite. LS or RC are recommended.
Illusion of weakness is pretty bad. Consider distortion instead.
Lack of anti KD is going to hurt.
Team of 60AL is going to blow up pretty hard, even through all that defense.
Too much defense, not a problem if you can push kills at a decent pace.
Crystals are easily kited away from.
Ele attunes are going to get ripped.
Heal monk has too many generic heal skills. Consider prot spirit or heal seed.

Possibly more, but not seeing it right now.

Might want to consider running something closer to balanced with a contagion necro. Does pretty much what you want to do with this build, but better.

undead living · May 31, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

[EDIT] FAIL BUILD but better then first=progression XD

Revelations · Jun 01, 2009, 04:36 AM // 04:36

Don't have much time, so I'll comment further on it a bit later, but there is a major problem you're going to have when playing condition heavy builds.

This problem is quite specifically the other team's prot elite. If you run into an RC monk while using this then you're going to be losing nearly all your pressure, providing the other team with infuse sized powerheals with virtually no drawback. In order for your build to be remotely viable you're going to need to shut that skill - and probably others - down. The usual method for this is to use Signet of Humility on a mesmer, though a PBlock mes does a decent job of this also.

Another fairly major problem is that conditions simply don't spike very well, and in trying to incorporate a mix of spike and pressure your build does neither very effectively.

When I get more time I'll edit this post with some skill choices you might want to consider over what you're running.

EDIT: Ok, so I know bbcode is currently broke - hopefully that will change soon, but I cba with teambuilder or anything atm. The second build you posted above really isn't very good. Since you seem to be relatively new I'll spoon feed you a build for now, following posters could probably vouch for it's mediocrity. If you really wanted to run a semi-viable condition heavy build I would run something along the line of the following.

Earth Shaker Warrior
[Earth Shaker][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Grasping Earth][Bull's Strike][Flail][Enraging Charge][Res Sig]

Cripslash Warrior
[Crippling Slash][Gash][Bull's Strike][Sun and Moon Slash][Frenzy][Rush][Res Sig] and your choice of either [Savage Slash] or a Conjure.

Incendiary Ranger
[Incendiary Arrows][Distracting Shot][Savage Shot][Apply Poison][Natural Stride][Song of Concentration]["Make Haste"][Res Sig]

LC Necro
[Lingering Curse][Suffering][Faintheartedness][Foul Feast][Plague Sending][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Res Sig] and either [Rend Enchantments] or [Rip Enchantment]

SH Ele
[Savannah Heat][Tenai's Heat][Searing Heat][Rodgort's Invocation][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Fire Attunement][Weapon of Warding][Death Pact Signet]

Power Block Mes
[Power Block][Shame][Diversion][Power Drain][Power Lock][Shatter Enchantment][Drain Enchantment][Flesh of My Flesh]

WoH Monk
[Word of Healing][Infuse Health][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Cure Hex][Draw Conditions][Power Drain][Channeling]

PnH Monk
[Peace and Harmony][Spirit Bond][Guardian][Shield of Absorption][Deny Hexes][Aura of Stability][Channeling] and an optional slot for whatever you prefer.

WoH has draw due to recharge on feast. Necro feasts from WoH monk. Build relies pretty heavily on keeping RC down, though is capable of not completely terrible pressure otherwise. If there's any stupidly glaring mistakes it's because I'm tired. Might be a little low on defense, so probably requires strong monks. Also, it probably breaks HA to have a non gimmick ranger bar in a build.

Might also want to make some adjustments. Ward against Foes should probably be on a bar in there somewhere, could probably squeeze it in on the necro. Enfeeble isn't completely terrible either. Cry of frustration could easily enough replace another interrupt on the mes bar, as could Power Leak.

kedde · Jun 01, 2009, 07:45 AM // 07:45

PnH instantly kills everything you have that does damage.

You only have bad snares.

You have a load of unnecessary and bad skills.

Your prot monks build sucks.

Removing cripple on the assasins chain means you're never going to kill anybody.

You need to rework it all.

laurana half elf · Jun 01, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

imo your second build is quite terrible.

You're really just throwing a bunch of damage dealing spells together without thinking of their synergy.

Sure maybe you can farm underworld with this if you come up against randomway but in all honesty, nothing is going to be beat by this save the few teams that are actually running a worse build.

I'm not sure if you're new to HA but after seeing those builds i'm going to assume you are.

I suggest sticking to a build that has already been proven (pvxwiki.com) and getting a feel for the maps and what it takes to win each one before you attempt to make your own build.

Killed u man · Jun 01, 2009, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Bleh, I can only promote original builds, but that's only when they would work/are optimal for what they are trying to do.

1) Soothing Images and Shrinking Armor sucks, this ain't PvE.

2) No need for a PoD necro because your not running a clean spike, Infuse is the thing you're going to have to worry about. Also no need for Glyph on his bar, as he only has 2 10 energy skills.

3) Firestorm lol?

4) Trapper with Mark of Pain? xD

5) No purpose in that Smiter whatsoever

Clearly, you're making a build around the skill [Fragility], So I'll try and make a basic build, with alot of free skills to tool around with for you, but still giving you the necessary utility to survive.

Is what I would probably run. Pretty much a balanced/Pressure build, where the Cripslash calls whenever he is about to unload on a target. The mesmer then casts Fevered Dreams and Fragility, and every (besides the hammer, who should be having fun with the enemy prot) team member uses his shit on that target. 9 conditions = +- additional 180 dmg + Warrior + Burning + DW should be able to drop some targets.

Truth is that Fragility alone doesn't do or add enough damage to score kills purely on that skill.

Krill · Jun 01, 2009, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Going a slightly different route than Borat.

If you're gona run a pure spike build you need to have lots of healing and / or defense so you can withstand pressure...that first build has absolutely none. I'd also be worried about being PnH'd and there goes all the damage from fragility and possible condition spreading you might get out of fevered dreams. It's ridiculously obvious =/

undead living · Jun 01, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

lol ok i get it.. i suck at HA builds. but ill eventually get better.. the only things i run is IWAY and RTL spike so ya. not very exp. will make more builds later. thxs for opinions and stuff.

[edit]

k new build.. heh just tell me if i need to think more when im doing it. im just glancing at skills and putting it up....but ya tell me wut u guys think of this 1 maybe a bit better then others.. suggestions?

[[edit]] forgot to take out stand ur ground on smite monk...replace with?

Killed u man · Jun 02, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by undead living

lol ok i get it.. i suck at HA builds. but ill eventually get better.. the only things i run is IWAY and RTL spike so ya. not very exp. will make more builds later. thxs for opinions and stuff.

[edit]

k new build.. heh just tell me if i need to think more when im doing it. im just glancing at skills and putting it up....but ya tell me wut u guys think of this 1 maybe a bit better then others.. suggestions?

[[edit]] forgot to take out stand ur ground on smite monk...replace with?

Well, It's fun reviewing your builds anyways. To bad most of the bars suck, for some obvious reasons I shall explain:

Poison tip signet, or ANY condition pressure, for that matter sucks in a non-condition build. Tainted flesh mainly comes to mind.
The reason here is that RC (restore condition) which EVERY team usually brings cleans up these conditions, aswell as HEALS them.
Whereas you're trying to create pressure by using conditions, all you're really doing is giving them more heals. (Feeding RC)

Condition specced builds usually have a counter for RC. Wether it be interrups, diversion, or Sig of Humility, they will shut it down.

So try and keep away from conditions as much as you can, UNLESS you're running a condition heav build. (I won't start on Apply Poison rangers, they are the ONLY exception I can think off -Maybe tainted flesh aswell)

Then, your smiter monk:

Looks "alright" in terms of build viability, but only Judge's Intervention is a bad skill. It does big damage, yes, but in order to do so, you need to have one of your team members "die". (Would have) So It is likely he'll die anyways, because Judges intervention doesn't do anything to "prevent" that death afterwards (Unlike Divine Intervention).

Also, try and relocate skills in your build to compress same attribute lines on the same bars.
Good example is your Make Haste and your Stand Your Ground.
As it stands right now, the SOLE reason for your paragon to invest into Command is Make Haste. The same goes for your Mo/P. (Stand your ground)
This means they loose attribute points in other areas. Hence, it would make more sense to try and fit BOTH SKILLS ON THE SAME BAR. This enables you to only use 1 character with command, and the other one with more in the rest.
Swapping song from your Mo/P to your paragon does just that. Now, your paragon does NOT have to invest into Command anymore, and can get more spear mastery/leadership.

Last but not least is simply bad skills.

Glyph of Quickness is bad for the builds you've described. Try using Searing Heat or Tenais Heat. Calculating is the solution here. I don't know the exact numbers, but using glyph of quickness (GoQ) on Savannah heat will make it recharge 25% faster, and thus means you have 25% more damage.
Savanah heat does about 300 damage every 30 seconds. Now it will do
375 damage every 30 seconds.

A second Searing heat, however, means that U can get an searing heat every time you use a savannah heat (they recharge about the same time).
This means that every 30 seconds, you get an additional 200 damage. (Searing heat's damage)
This means that both skills do about 500 damage every 30 seconds.
375 < 500

Hence, bringing a second searing heat is adviced. (There is other factions, such as "nuking" altar, in which one uses all the AoE spells on his bar consecutivly, in order to create a big "aoe" spike of fire damage.)

Soldier's Strike on the warrior also is bad. It's the ONLY skill he has in Tactics, and thus he'll have to invest into it heavily in order for it to be effective. On top of that, there is Hammer Mastery Skills that do the exact same, or ever more damage WITHOUT having to spec into any other attribute line, because you're already running hammer mastery.

Also keep energy in mind. Energy is not something you can read of GW team build, but an experienced PvP'er (as myself) will notice what is doable and what is not. That warrior will NOT be able to use soldier's strike all that often, making it a reall poor choice.

Your paragon also doesn't have a long lasting shout for Soldier's fury. Bear in mind that after he uses an attack skill, anthem of flame will be gone, and Soldier's Fury will be useless for the remainder of those 10 seconds.
Thus, you might want to run a better, long lasting shout on him.
Since they nerfed alot of Shouts, you'll find this rather difficult, and I think it's better to use Aggressive refrain instead

For the sake of Build Wars, you might wanna throw in Hexbreaker Aria, because there is alot of hexways out there.

Necro has Foul Feast, but you're also running Life Sheath. This is kinda redundant. Either take away Foul Feast, or Run RC, which gives you a big power heal. (Foul Feast is needed because the RC can't self-target, so the Foul Feast ONLY REMOVES THE CONDITIONS OF THE PROT, after which he RC's the necro)

Optimalize your prot monk's bar, tried to leave as much of your original build in there, whilst still keeping it relativly "PvP"-viable:

Revelations · Jun 02, 2009, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Truth is that Fragility alone doesn't do or add enough damage to score kills purely on that skill.

Fragility and fevered dreams probably aren't really worth the huge telegraph that they create IMO. You'd probably be better off pressuring with conditions rather than spiking. As long as you can keep down RC of course.

undead living · Jun 03, 2009, 02:06 AM // 02:06

to the other comments up there..yes if cripple is removed then assa=screwed. but with the pressure and pb of mez i doubt the monks/ w/e, will remove crippling in time. maybe like 3/4 sec before ox hits and dont forget monks will be doing other stuff..i just c it as highly unlikely. and no im not new to HA. i used to HA all the time then i quit gw for awhile...but this is my first time making up builds. XD

another build..hopefully getting better no?

ES war and ele work together
assa and roj work together.
otherwise ES on prot monk and assa on heals. ele and roj pressure and when target comes spam,spam,spam,spam.(assa scorpion wire dash=tele to foe the chain. otherwise run in)(can replace sig of corrution for sig of toxic shock)

PB mez messes with healer and after a PB does w/e.(inspiration doesnt need nething for ispired hex[just to help monk wit hex removal]

US ele lays wards and gets on melee with eruption and US. monks heals.

build a bet better today?

always looking for suggestions

[edit fixed build slightly. and made an alt for sin. alt for sin is more effective when u have a good grasping earth, and mez spams 3, no pts really needed in illusion. it just needs to cast an AoE hex spell and 45% should slow down casters enough]

Ka Tet · Jun 03, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

I'll give you one thing; you've got the right attitude at least. You keep trying and don't let criticism get you down, big plus if you're gonna HA. You gotta let the shit roll off you, don't let it bead.
Peace;
Ka

Revelations · Jun 03, 2009, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Your latest build is definitely a lot more viable than previous editions.

Still several changes I would make though.

Convert Hexes is probably going to be too much energy for your prot monk. I'd suggest Veil. Spirit bond is usually superior to prot spirit for spike stopping in HA.

Since your Erf Shakur has a free secondary it might be worth putting death pact sig on him and flesh of my flesh on the mes. Not a huge issue here though. Might want to consider crushing blow over pulverizing. Hammer bash is also extremely strong, and there is no reason you shouldn't bring it. Get rid of mokele? if thats what that 4th icon is. Flail is generally a better IAS for a hammer warrior if using crushing. If you stay with pulverizing then frenzy is fairly solid.

Ward against melee is inferior to a lot of other utility skills from earth magic. I'd suggest churning earth, stoning (if you keep pulverizing on erf shakur), earthquake, or glyph of lesser. 3 second casts are asking for interrupt though - take that into account. Fireball on other ele would probably be better as glyph of lesser. You could consider a hard res on this character also, if not on erf shakur. Would let mes keep death pact for better sig of distraction.

Mes is already specced in dom, inspiration and fast casting. Weapon of shadow is probably too much of an attribute split. Consider shame to replace it.

Scorpion wire is a pretty crappy skill. Might want to consider either no shadowstep, or a better one if you insist on using one. An IAS would also be helpful on this character. Frenzy if you can afford dash to cancel, flurry if not. Flurry also means you can take another dual for pressure while your others are down. Death blossom is usually used for this.

Not sure about hex eater sig on heal monk, but might work. Requires bad positioning to really be effective, which is a bad thing. Spotless mind may do a better job.

Overall much better than previous versions. As mentioned above, good job for taking this well. A lot of people would be flaming us right now for destroying their build, but keep with it.

EDIT: One more thing too. There are currently a lot of 1/4 cast condition removals floating around in GW. Draw conditions, life sheath and foul feast in particular. So it is indeed very viable to strip palms cripple before trampling lands. You can even do it with a 3/4 cast if you're watching the sin. Just a heads up

undead living · Jun 05, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

K these builds i just made.

aoe kite build
ES war calls and Sh ele hits target/LC necro puts up LC and Suffering to cover. earth ele can assist. n/a puts weaken and shameful fear. also if earth ele does assit he/she should use churning earth since SF gives 10% speed buff so churning auto KDS ES should finish target.N/A spam weaken knees to apply pressure on kiters. para removes conditions+minor heals. speed buff players that need ex: monks. monks heal. (prot monk can switch out ZB if he doesnt kno how to use it and can put in divert hexes for more hex removal.then heal monk can take hex eater sig for nething he wnts)

Aoe pressure fire reduct

i personally think this will be more succesful. same as AoE kite. ES calls targets eles AoE target.IMPORTANT SF ele needs to spam Mark of Rods. then fire eles try to maintain burning on foes. this will allow There on Fire to work. reduces dmg from burning targets. after that everything else is pretty much the same but SF is able to spam AoE while war is not calling.(prot monk can switch out ZB if he doesnt kno how to use it and can put in divert hexes for more hex removal.then heal monk can take hex eater sig for nething he wnts)

comments plz? i like making builds XD

Revelations · Jun 05, 2009, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Latest builds both need a few changes to be properly viable, but again not too far off the mark.

Here are the current flaws I see in the latest builds.

Paragon
First off, kill the para - in both builds. I can't be bothered figuring out what all those chants are, but basically there's too many. On a para bar you usually want to include a couple of spear attacks, as they are capable of some pretty decent damage. "It's Just a Flesh Wound" is pretty nice, not entirely sure why it's not more common. However on nearly any physical attacker bar DPS is greatly increased with an IAS skill. Aggressive Refrain is usually the choice on paragons. "Go for the Eyes" is a staple skill on most para bars also, usually more for the energy management to fuel higher cost skills - often from a secondary. Basically a Paragon bar in HA usually consists of something like.

Utility or defense elite|Attack|Attack|Short recharge shout/chant for Aggressive Refrain|Aggressive Refrain|Utility|Utility|Res

Common elites include Expel Hexes, Cruel Spear, or Defensive Anthem. Incoming, "The Power is Yours" and "It's just a Flesh Wound" are much less common, but still viable in the right team. In your case your team lacks sufficient hex removal, and is also rather squishy. Expel or DA would be the way to go if you wanted to keep the para.

Common utility skills in HA include Cry of Frustration, Song of Concentration, "Make Haste" or another shout/chant to keep up Aggressive and support your team. Hexbreaker Aria also isn't bad on a caster heavy team.

Erf Shakur
Mostly not terrible. However, when running a hammer bar the usual method of execution is Elite -> IAS -> DW skill -> Whatever. Often a quarter knock with bash. Basically this means that you cannot use an adrenal based IAS and DW efficiently with one another, as activating your IAS will decrease adrenaline for your DW skill. You will need an intermediate hit to inflict DW. There is no such mechanic preventing using an energy based DW and IAS, though you will find it gets hard on your energy. Zealous hammers attack too slowly to be of any real use in gaining this back, so the usual solution is to run either adrenal IAS with energy DW, or energy IAS with adrenal DW. Since hammers are supposed to knock shit down then there is little drawback to using flail as your IAS, freeing up a ton of energy for better things.

On this guy you will also really want to run Enraging Charge, probably over Rush. This skill helps offset the heavy adrenal cost of your elite and allows you to quickly gain adrenaline back after using Bash. Swap to a furious weapon for 10% chance to instacharge your entire bar.

Distracting blow may be better substituted for a few skills. More Grasping Earth. A shadowstep for surprises and/or clean spikes. Some people like to run Iron Palm or other variants also. Pretty flexible slot, that one.

Earth Ele
Not terrible.

LC Necro
See above.

Fire Ele
Mostly good. Going to be hard on energy. Might want a GoLE.

Heal Monk
Not terrible. I'd run Power Drain over Hex Eater Sig.

Prot Monk
If you want a powerheal elite with a full prot bar then run RC. More versatile, easier on energy, and you'll usually be mopping up multiple conditions for big red bar pushes. An additional hex removal on this guy would be a good idea. Veil is usually the best choice - drop Mend Touch, unless running RC without an outside condition removal. If you do keep Flesh Wound on the para then consider PnH. RoF is always a fairly solid skill choice also.

Bizarre Curses/Deadly Arts Necro

Wont go too in depth, but you'll probably want to completely rework this guy. That build is pretty much a waste of that character. Add either another frontliner for damage or another hexer for retarded stacks of shutdown. Prolly Evis or VoR. If you expect to get to halls then run PD. Powerblock is also good. Searing flames is decent, though it's synergy with "They're on Fire" is overrated at best. It works far better in theory than in practice.

General
Swap a Death Pact for a FomF. Otherwise you may fall prone to retarded Death Pact chains if you're stupid/brave/unlucky/whatever. Seems slightly lacking in defense. A lot of teams run standard backline plus a couple of hyperdefensive midliners. Many even have a triple backline due to ongoing nerfs of passive defense. If you played a while back you'll probably find that the HA of today is a lot quicker and more aggressive. Due to power creep there is a lot of damage floating around, so it may be prudent to throw in more defense if you feel you need it.

Divert hexes also isn't the best method of dealing with hexes anymore either. A couple of moths ago we got a new contender for that role. Look up Peace and Harmony. Pretty stupid powerful.

Bottom line though, get some mates and try these out. It's great that you like making builds - I quite like ripping them to shreds

. But ultimately the best way to tell if a build works is to go out there and run it.

EDIT: Wow I'm capable of some formidable text walls when I type.

I Jonas I · Jun 12, 2009, 07:26 PM // 19:26

All of the above builds are bad. Okay, not all of them are bad, but they could be better, IMO. Unless you are running that faggoty contagion build, any build that you make that centers solely around conditions will suck.

Example of build that doesn't suck:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...30&postcount=6

Hanging Man · Jun 12, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

I'll give you one thing; you've got the right attitude at least. You keep trying and don't let criticism get you down, big plus if you're gonna HA. You gotta let the shit roll off you, don't let it bead.
Peace;
Ka

Seconded.
This is going to get you farther than any build will.

Like everyone else said most of your bars are lacking most of their decent abilities.
you wanna do a condition spike? Fine but use professions and builds that can something else other than just your condition spike

Sorry i cant offer any constructive advice as I have never HA'd before but I'll still offer advice.

superraptors · Jun 15, 2009, 09:03 AM // 09:03

ug ele is pretty worthless packing defense wont make you kill faster and key to winning ha matches is whiping the other team and even if your going to run the earth ele put foes an grasping on him instead or run dual foes

also missing party heals, need atleast a life and protective was kaolai if you dont want to get stomped on altar cap / koth and aoe in general

woh is not great for HA, would stick to hb + heal party or get stomped by the above

build on post 7 is alright probably just drop sunder and shadow or foul feast since nerf and pack in life and pwk
________
Washington medical marijuana dispensary

undead living · Jun 22, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

new build..srry been busy lately.. water ele is snarer/runner. to tired to type..so ya comments plz?