Curse

Mad Lord of Milk · Jul 03, 2009, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Fuhon

This could be seen since Factions beta, a time when the random arenas were dominated by spirits. After seeing a Ritualist before the match started, you could tell your teammates 'kill spirits' and have this suggestion completely ignored. This has been a problem since the beginning of the game: a large number of players have difficulty adapting to strategies that require actions aside from kill the healer, attack the healer, or shutdown the healer. These types of strategies are instead based around things like: coordinate what you are doing with your teammates.

Dude, I feel your pain. I can't even begin to count how many times my RA team got pwnt because teammates couldn't follow simple tactical directions.

Leave spirits as they are, it's not the spirits' fault that everyone sucks and can't spend 2-3 seconds killing them.

X Black Chaos X · Jul 03, 2009, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Ritualists themselves aren't that bad (in terms of weapon spells). However their sprit function is lacking. Those spirits go down so quickly, and have a long recharge and cast time. True the actual functionality of having spirits is good, however it's just to easy to kill them or interupt the casting. I'm suprised actually that Anet only made PvE changes to spirt spells. I would recommend reducing the cast time down or decreaseing the recharge, or makeing spirts somehow strong enough not to go down in a few seconds

Reverend Dr · Jul 04, 2009, 12:15 AM // 00:15

In any remotely even matchup it is possible to cast spirits where you run no risk of interruption, little risk of spirit death, but still cover the battlefield.

If you are getting interrupted and having your spirits killed then, either your placement is beyond echo mending whammo levels of incompetence, or your team is getting steamrolled and it wouldn't matter anyway.

Iotan · Jul 04, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

During Factions there was a decent spirit metagame. Shelter/union saw a bit of play as well as NR/tranq+rit spirits. Then there used to be N/Rt bloodspike with every spirit in the game...

Back then the characters seemed more fragile so that pushing to destroy a spirit would actually cause pressure on your team. The powercreep/uber skills/etc. caused that to be less of a problem. Then along came Paragons who can obliterate spirits so that meta won't be around again for a long time. Recuperation on runners is standard now because it can be placed so far away and all you have to do is run into it's range if you need the healing but any other spirits suffer from the common weaknesses (interrupt+easy to kill.)

Spirits themselves are unbelievably boring. Placing spirits for good bodyblocks is about all spirit rit can do. Spirit builds can add some fun aspects to the game (risk/reward in killing them, some added dimensions) but the game balancing has moved away from that.

Reverend Dr · Jul 04, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iotan

During Factions there was a decent spirit metagame. Shelter/union saw a bit of play as well as NR/tranq+rit spirits.

I also played during factions. Spirit play then was absolutely terrible for the game. A rit lord could put out spirits where neither him nor the spirits were in danger and would force matches to stalemates until VoD. It was an incredibly bad mechanic for the game.

bungusmaximus · Jul 04, 2009, 01:42 PM // 13:42

in pve, 2 people + heroes and spirits seem to destroy most of hardmode, and in pvp, im thankful they suck. No pvp-er I know of wants to get ripped to shreds by lame spirit poo builds.

Fire & forget is baed

Michael805 · Jul 04, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I also played during factions. Spirit play then was absolutely terrible for the game. A rit lord could put out spirits where neither him nor the spirits were in danger and would force matches to stalemates until VoD. It was an incredibly bad mechanic for the game.

Bspike and Rapike say sup.

Reverend Dr · Jul 04, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Bspike and Rspike were terrible during Factions.

Displacement + Union on the rit lord would shut down Rspike until VoD and that's without your front+midling actively shutting down spikes.

The new oppressive gaze spike only caught bad teams. We were firmly cemented around 300 on the ladder and even we knew that interrupting enfeebling blood would turn the spike from formidable to nothing.

Michael805 · Jul 04, 2009, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Bspike and Rspike were terrible during Factions.

Displacement + Union on the rit lord would shut down Rspike until VoD and that's without your front+midling actively shutting down spikes.

The new oppressive gaze spike only caught bad teams. We were firmly cemented around 300 on the ladder and even we knew that interrupting enfeebling blood would turn the spike from formidable to nothing.

Even after shutting down spikes, killing them ended up being hard due to spirit shitters sitting 20 miles back.

Reverend Dr · Jul 05, 2009, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Congratulation! You found my point I made several posts back!

Michael805 · Jul 05, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Congratulation! You found my point I made several posts back!

I was actually agreeing with you, and was pointing out that rspike and bspike exploited the methods most.

shefdawg · Jul 27, 2009, 06:00 AM // 06:00

What are you sriously afraid of, about spirits so what you take some damage, guess what use your brain and think of a counter. God forbid you run something new and have to actually think of a counter, as many times as i have been to HA, gvg or whereever is the same things, Moebius, in AB, RTl's in RA, ether prism healers, IWAYs mathway, in HA,its all the same meta. So why not throw something new in the mix.

I would liek to see them actually do something funky with the spirits, and bring some versatility back to the game instead of the same old boring crap.

*lemming* · Jul 27, 2009, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by shefdawg

What are you sriously afraid of, about spirits so what you take some damage, guess what use your brain and think of a counter. God forbid you run something new and have to actually think of a counter, as many times as i have been to HA, gvg or whereever is the same things, Moebius, in AB, RTl's in RA, ether prism healers, IWAYs mathway, in HA,its all the same meta. So why not throw something new in the mix.

I would liek to see them actually do something funky with the spirits, and bring some versatility back to the game instead of the same old boring crap.

Stop posting.

wuzzman · Jul 30, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Now being relatively more active in guild wars, its discussions like these that reminder why I refuse to buy Eye of the North. Oh yeah pony up $30 dollars to play a foul feast necro and put patient spirit on your monk. Defiantly worth it... back in the day when you had more then 2 builds per metagame, buying the new expansions as a pvp'er gave you tons of new ways to play the game. Now you don't even need factions and nightfalls is barely necessary. If it wasn't for heroes you honestly wouldn't need to pay anet a single dollar past prophecies which means, that anet owes me $100. though granted i purchased factions and nightfalls at their reduced retail prices.

Chocobo1 · Jul 30, 2009, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Now being relatively more active in guild wars, its discussions like these that reminder why I refuse to buy Eye of the North. Oh yeah pony up $30 dollars to play a foul feast necro and put patient spirit on your monk. Defiantly worth it... back in the day when you had more then 2 builds per metagame, buying the new expansions as a pvp'er gave you tons of new ways to play the game. Now you don't even need factions and nightfalls is barely necessary. If it wasn't for heroes you honestly wouldn't need to pay anet a single dollar past prophecies which means, that anet owes me $100. though granted i purchased factions and nightfalls at their reduced retail prices.

Thats fine if your PvE I guess, but you are shooting yourself in the foot if you try play any decent PvP.

wuzzman · Jul 30, 2009, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Factions offer nothing at all for a pvp'er. Nightfall and Prophecies are pretty much needed, GWEN just makes it easier to play metaway. I haven't seen a skill in GWEN besides patient spirit that really doesn't have a nightfall or propherices alternative and is not on the waiting list to be nerfed. Nightfalls at the very least gives you another arena, and a few extra bars to run.

Revelations · Jul 30, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by wuzzman

Factions offer nothing at all for a pvp'er. Nightfall and Prophecies are pretty much needed, GWEN just makes it easier to play metaway. I haven't seen a skill in GWEN besides patient spirit that really doesn't have a nightfall or propherices alternative and is not on the waiting list to be nerfed. Nightfalls at the very least gives you another arena, and a few extra bars to run.

Though this is somewhat off-topic, I just wanted to point out how completely and thoroughly wrong you are. Can't forget necros.

And that's not even mentioning any meta sin/rit skills. Pretty sure that dash, return, pot, recoup, resil, warding, wielder's, mbas, death's charge, life, dark escape, soothing, and flesh are all very meta and fairly strong, even on non sin/rit primaries. Note I'm not terribly familiar with HA rspike/ritspike gimmicks that add to this list, nor have I included the couple dozen sin skills that infest HB.

And please don't get me started on EotN.

wuzzman · Jul 30, 2009, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Restoration as a whole is one gimmick build away from being nerfed out the game. Dash and Dark escape hasn't been removed from the game due to the lack of split builds. Nothing from the rit or sin arsenal is considered "balance" and is subject to being rendered useless at any time. There is nothing factions offers that nightfalls or propherices don't already have and better.

Vanquisher · Aug 02, 2009, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Something to add quickly - Ranger spirits have a global effect, so builds incorporating them have to be able to function without them, but be optimal when under those effects, which can also cause some degree of harm to the other team.

Ritualists spirits often act in the complete same way, but differently, where they generally provide some defensive purpose (at least, the ones that have ever been used), that helps the build incorporating them to be played effectively, and forces the other team to kill them, often leading to positional mishaps.

The difference comes where not every skill is going to be good under x condition. NR and Tranquility for instance, gave massive disadvantages to enchantment based prot/healing, but the result was a much less efficient weapon spell usage, or maintaining the norm with notable changes (no Aegis). Going back further, Divine Boon or Blessed Light, and the requirement of range (having to effect the other team inversely meant putting the spirit somewhere they can't just move back and be comfortable).

Other words, Ranger spirits were often more aggressive and the best use demanded more aggressive play. Ritualist spirits are more defensive and can chill way back. Spamming offensive spirits isn't as viable or useful as alternatives.