Curse

Revelations · Jul 18, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I don't know. Why don't you tell me? Why was it that before the buff to Mind Blast splitting didn't occur in appreciable amounts? What was it that prevented other templates from splitting?

Weaken knees for one. The completely OP LC favouring stand play for a second. Now that those are gone it's MB causing other splits to be non viable, due to it's general effectiveness, and ease of running.

Jeydra · Jul 18, 2009, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Are you claiming that pre-nerf Lingering Curse was the reason for 8v8 play dominating? Or that Weaken Knees was what was stopping split from being viable?

If so, let me jog your memory. Take a trip down memory lane ...

June mAT. Finals was [yumy] vs. [Cry]. [yumy] hexway vs. [Cry] Me/N + E/Me. Cry splits off a Mind Blaster. Doesn't matter in this particular discussion because we're looking at what the situation was before Mind Blasters became common.

May mAT. Finals was [Cry] vs. [StS]. [StS] hexway vs. [Cry] dual E/Me split with WK Necro. This was before the WK nerf. Evidently splitting with Mind Blasters worked well enough to use in a mAT final, even risking WK.

April mAT. Finals was [KMD] vs. [Cry]. [KMD] omegaspike vs. [Cry] LoD / ESurge / Mind Shock pressure. No splitting. No Lingering Curse either.

March mAT. Finals was [KMD] vs. [dP]. [KMD] omegaspike vs. [dP] hexway. No splitting. Well [dP] did attempt to split after it became clear they were going to get overwhelmed at stand; they didn't run a split build.

February mAT. Finals was [rawr] vs. [Shat]. [rawr] nH pressure vs. [Shat] rawrspike. No splitting.

January mAT. Finals was [rawr] vs. [GeAr]. rawrspike mirrormatch. No splitting.

December 2008 mAT. Finals was [rawr] vs. [NOW]. rawr [rawrspike] vs. [NOW] Palm Strike + Dev Hammer + SigMes + BSurge + FC LC. No splitting (not in appreciable amounts anyway).

Want to go on?

For the first time in ages we see a dedicated split build in a mAT final, the mAT where Cry won gold. Before that was omegaspike, then rawrspike, and then VoD farm, all the while during which splitting was rare. In fact I remember only a few guilds attempting to split - Team Paradigm, and Vent Rage. Are you really claiming that Lingering Curse and Weaken Knees were the reasons why splitting wasn't viable for so long, and that Mind Blast is drowning out the other split templates?

Ec]-[oMaN · Jul 18, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Are you claiming that pre-nerf Lingering Curse was the reason for 8v8 play dominating? Or that Weaken Knees was what was stopping split from being viable?

For the first time in ages we see a dedicated split build in a mAT final, the mAT where Cry won gold. Before that was omegaspike, then rawrspike, and then VoD farm, all the while during which splitting was rare. In fact I remember only a few guilds attempting to split - Team Paradigm, and Vent Rage. Are you really claiming that Lingering Curse and Weaken Knees were the reasons why splitting wasn't viable for so long, and that Mind Blast is drowning out the other split templates?

Splitting has pretty much been dead for a year straight or more, you are correct. Up until 2-3 months ago.

The thing with splitting is character choice and template choice is that you need to dedicate or specialize so many skill slots to fulfill the role and once put into 8v8 situations you have bars with maybe more interrupts, snares and self heals, that's the downside/sacrifice and less dmg. On the other side of the coin going in and building to use an 8v8 you specialize in causing lots of pressure or dmg very little utility or self heals, that's the trade off. The thing I'm not understanding is why does everyone cry about certain problematic builds, and they are only a problem because people refuse to sub in 2-3 other counter skills to make life easier vs said build. This used to happen many times before, either the current playerbase is too lazy or doesn't even know which of those 2-3 skill change ups would make life easier vs said build.

The thing that can be argued however is that the Mind Blast template is the perfect of example of a template that incorporates speed boost, self heal, block, and a KD, and in between doing really decent damage with range. In the past most templates couldn't do this, then again in the past 8v8 builds like in the last few months haven't been so deadly either compared to previous years.

Burton2000 · Jul 20, 2009, 04:59 PM // 16:59

The last time split was hugely popular was probably sin split around a year ago. Back then it was because split builds were generally stronger than 8v8 builds and the same could be said again now with mind blasts and the nerfs to hexes and omega spike.

I Angra I · Jul 20, 2009, 07:42 PM // 19:42

The last time split was viable was 10-12 months ago with the dR-style split with 2 hammer warriors, 1-2 rangers and 1-2 water eles. Then right after that, lingering curse was buffed to its most overpowered state, as well as all those other random (and retarded) elite buffs like primal rage, etc, and other elites that created rawrspike. Split then became obsolete because an 8v8 build would stomp over your monks before you could do anything on a split, or in the case of rawrspike, completely nullify your split with defense everywhere, and powerful snares+fast warrior to kill everything that ran around.

Now given, those elites and builds are a bit less powerful now, but mind blast templates are so retardedly mindless and powerful as well that they can keep up with all of the other superpowered things that have existed since that buff. Though I think now after finally getting some of those really overpowered skills back down to a reasonable level, other split templates that aren't mind blast could possibly work again if the mind blast template didn't exist, though I'm not sure.

ajsnuker · Aug 26, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Mind Blast is the cause.. the build does even better with the e/d featherfoot/dwayna's touch variant.

yes....but they nerfed dwaynas touch.... problem solved?