Curse

lutz · May 29, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

The forums are unbreakable and the posters all force me to reiterate the 'why' E/Me's are so f'ing OP'd.

I'd take it that by the tone of your post that you're just another one of those that abuse the E/Me build in PvP and're scared that it will get toned down by Anet so you won't have any more OP'd build for yourself to farm PvPers with so mind-numbingly easily (1, 2, 3, 4) anymore.

Why wouldn't anyone abuse the E/Me build if they want to?

Zena Starlight · May 29, 2009, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regulus X

Oh yea, right.. lemme just bring a warrior and spec using rend enchantments so I can get rupted like a lil biotch by the rest (2-seconds SCREAMS RUPT ME PL0X!!!1!12!!).

And I'm not bringing stance removal (only 4 of them in-game anyway, 3 of which, well, as their skill name implies, BLOWS) just to land a few hits before they re-raise their stance, laugh and proceed to M.Blast->ImmolateM.Blast->ImmolateM.Blast->ImmolateM.Blast->ImmolateM.Blast->Immolate me to death.. By the time my weapon strikes them, Distortion will have already ended and the recharge is so quick that, guess what...

and all while blocking 60-80% of the time! Any more easy solutions? Cuz as far as I know, there are none except ignore til the E/Me's are the last one's standing as usual...

Since rend is the *only* enchant removal and stance removal is the *only* way to stop blocking? Really now? Can you be anymore narrow minded?

Not to mention since this build is sooo op. Why are they running E/D's in gvg? I thought distortion was just to amazing to pass up?

Be less ignorant plox.

Snow Bunny · May 29, 2009, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Regulus, you must be terrible at 4v4.

It's (I repeat this again having a lot of experience with it) not hard at all to monk against a triple E/Me team. You put up balanced stance and let your team rape their monk.

X Black Chaos X · May 29, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

in GvG play the E/Me split of How can a mes cast diversion or backfire if their w/ the main team? usually i see a ranger split off but E/Me>ranger. you have to split a good portion of your main team back because of just 2 ele's. distortion=need nerf badly. along w/ bloodspike

Ensign · May 29, 2009, 01:59 AM // 01:59

The only thing really broken is people's perceptions of what balance is. After a year or so of utter dominance by a single defensive spike archetype, ironically named 'balanced', people have come to think of that build dominating implies that the game is balanced. The exact opposite is true.

At the moment I see a mix of dedicated split builds, hex pressure, omegaspike, and warrior spikes. A lot of the characters involved are a bit silly, but there are a lot of silly templates and they counteract each other to some extent. The metagame is healthier right now than it has been in well over a year.

Snow Bunny · May 29, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

At this point it would appear that the 3 traditional archetypes of play, spike, split, and pressure, have actually emerged, which is somewhat strange.

With WE warriors out, the game is actually very fun to play.

scruffy · May 29, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

i dont think anyone is disputing that...most people just think the mindblast ele makes splitting too braindead, its just so mind numbingly simple to split with that ele compared to other builds because its so obvious what the outcome of any possible skirmish would be that most of the time they are completely avoided and the team just sticks to basic strategies like 'after time their monks' or 'full collapse' and the only risks that people take are either 'i hope we can dp out their split in time to win the game' or 'i hope we can kill their monks before they kill ours'

splits that rely on massive damage numbers rather than sneaky play are just a yawn

Ensign · May 29, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Splitting without the Mindblast Ele was even more braindead because it didn't happen in any appreciable amount. Now it's happening all the time.

There's no question that the template is simpler than the characters of 2-3 years ago, but that is true of every template in every strategy; all characters are more powerful, more focused, and simpler to play. That's just the evolution of the game. Sneaky play was relevant when the game was much slower. Now it's irrelevant because any successful sneaky play would probably kill the Guild Lord.

Isn't 8v8 warriorspike still winning the monthlies?

C2Talon · May 29, 2009, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Wait, why are people saying Distortion is the problem here? The problem is that Mind Blast is spammable damage that provides infinite energy. It was still slightly broken before the Aura of Restoration buff, but that 1 extra energy gained per spell cast just makes any build with Mind Blast in it that much more broken and even more mindlessly easy to use.

For those whining about Distortion having such a low recharge, just look at Mirage Cloak with zero recharge. Sure, it's an enchantment, and there are plenty of ways to get rid of it, and it only blocks 50%, but did I mention zero recharge? Also, 15 energy is nothing to a Mind Blast ele if they're smart.

Mind Blast needs to be re-hit with the nerf bat. Not Distortion. Not Mirage Cloak. Not block-stance-X or block-enchantment-Y. Mind Blast.

Increase Mind Blast's recharge to make it more up-to-date for the buffed Aura of Restoration. Either that or remove Aura of Restoration's energy gain.

urania · May 29, 2009, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Precisely. The counters exist and are common, therefore the build sucks. The counters to E/Me Mind Blasters exist but are uncommon, therefore they are overpowered.

And urania, I could care less that builds "take no skill". If we only had the "skillful" build, then there would be no build variety because so many builds would be nerfed out of play. After several months we're finally seeing some variety. If ANet goes ahead and nerf Paragons now (brainless), hexes (brainless), etc, we'd soon end up back when the only viable build was 2x War 1x Ranger 1x Dom Mes 1x FC Water Snare 2x Monk + flagger. I do not want that. As far as I'm concerned the "takes no skill" argument is simply irrelevant.

The main problem isn't just it takes little to no skill, but instead the fact that the result/effect of that little to no skill builds is way too good for the effort put into it. For little effort the effect should be properly smaller too. Hex stacking is another funny example of it, but hey, I guess it'd be too hard (?) to implement a max-3-hexes-on-target limit or a code that would do something like this: whenever a player is suffering from 2 hexes and another hex is cast on them, the 3rd hex lasts only 50% of its duration, the 4th hex only 75% etc.

On a side note, I am not complaining about Mind(less) blasters cuz i wouldn't be able to beat them (balanced stance and fire shield+elemental damage reduction weapon do the trick quite well vs them, i guess), but having played the build myself I can easily say the virtually endless damage spam with an elite that not only fuels the energy pool like crazy but also does damage is rather ridiculous. In the past one had to have dual attunements with aura as cover in order to be able to pull off something like that (spam 25 energy skills on recharge, for example), but now...as mentioned before, the ench removal is a bitch slap to such builds and even if it wouldnt have been, why would anyone waste 2 slots for e management if u can instead take one that even does damage?

Regulus X · May 29, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only thing really broken is people's perceptions of what balance is. After a year or so of utter dominance by a single defensive spike archetype, ironically named 'balanced', people have come to think of that build dominating implies that the game is balanced. The exact opposite is true.

At the moment I see a mix of dedicated split builds, hex pressure, omegaspike, and warrior spikes. A lot of the characters involved are a bit silly, but there are a lot of silly templates and they counteract each other to some extent. The metagame is healthier right now than it has been in well over a year.

Cuz a Moderator on Guru has to tell you, amirite? But a regular like myself gets trashed and trampled by the rest? Typical mentality, indeed. And as far as enchant removal, I named the most prime one. Otherwise, there aren't too many that remove multiple enchantments at once and the E/Me will OFTEN be covered with guardian, veil, patient spirit, vigorous spirit, faithful intervention, etc, etc.. Use your head because it's obvious that you limit your measure of my knowledge to only what is left out (or unsaid). E/D's are less of a problem because their blockage is 50% and is an enchantment (despite difficulties in removing them, it's not OP's like a 5 recharge stance).

Celeborn10 · May 29, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

Hex stacking is another funny example of it, but hey, I guess it'd be too hard (?) to implement a max-3-hexes-on-target limit or a code that would do something like this: whenever a player is suffering from 2 hexes and another hex is cast on them, the 3rd hex lasts only 50% of its duration, the 4th hex only 75% etc.

Bad idea, think about what happened to the Guild Lords with Wastrel's Worry. Has potential but I don't feel like being the Guild Lord with that pain train. Limit of 2-3 hexes like you mentioned would be better.

Regulus X · May 29, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Bad idea, think about what happened to the Guild Lords with Wastrel's Worry. Has potential but I don't feel like being the Guild Lord with that pain train. Limit of 2-3 hexes like you mentioned would be better.

Can't they negate this in PvP? Or would any other issues spring out with it?

Floski · May 29, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeborn10

Bad idea, think about what happened to the Guild Lords with Wastrel's Worry. Has potential but I don't feel like being the Guild Lord with that pain train. Limit of 2-3 hexes like you mentioned would be better.

IF the only downside to that idea is wastrel's worry I think it's a great idea.

Jeydra · May 29, 2009, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Black Chaos X

in GvG play the E/Me split of How can a mes cast diversion or backfire if their w/ the main team? usually i see a ranger split off but E/Me>ranger. you have to split a good portion of your main team back because of just 2 ele's. distortion=need nerf badly. along w/ bloodspike

Maybe you should split the Mesmer back then ... also Holz vs. SpNv on obs right now sees SpNv's E/Me's getting walloped by a Weaken Knees Necro with Rip Enchant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

i dont think anyone is disputing that...most people just think the mindblast ele makes splitting too braindead, its just so mind numbingly simple to split with that ele compared to other builds because its so obvious what the outcome of any possible skirmish would be that most of the time they are completely avoided and the team just sticks to basic strategies like 'after time their monks' or 'full collapse' and the only risks that people take are either 'i hope we can dp out their split in time to win the game' or 'i hope we can kill their monks before they kill ours'

splits that rely on massive damage numbers rather than sneaky play are just a yawn

But then the sneakiest of split play (aka. Sinsplit) got nerfed out for being overpowered?

I agree wholeheartedly with Ensign.

@urania, I could still care less about how much skill the build takes vs. what the returns are. I simply don't view it as an important factor, or even a factor at all. As for pumping damage, no comment, other than pumping damage is what Fire is right? That's all the line is built for. For Fire Magic to be viable (and I sure hope the line is) then all the Elementalist is going to do is pump damage - well mostly anyway.

Lux Aeterna · May 29, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The only thing really broken is people's perceptions of what balance is. After a year or so of utter dominance by a single defensive spike archetype, ironically named 'balanced', people have come to think of that build dominating implies that the game is balanced. The exact opposite is true.

At the moment I see a mix of dedicated split builds, hex pressure, omegaspike, and warrior spikes. A lot of the characters involved are a bit silly, but there are a lot of silly templates and they counteract each other to some extent. The metagame is healthier right now than it has been in well over a year.

QFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFT

Don't whine about balance in an intentionally balanced game.

Celeborn10 · May 29, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floski

IF the only downside to that idea is wastrel's worry I think it's a great idea.

Ok, if it were to scale to 84% that is the sweet spot where WW doesn't even register so I think the damage just takes place. So long as it stays below that at even 83% it will last 1 second and would be more of an annoyance with armor ignoring damage.

scruffy · May 29, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

the weaken knees necro is so good at forcing 8v8 how2beet? everyone on obs mode is running this build with 2 necros 1 ranger and 2 fire eles its a juggernaut 8v8 and is pretty much immune to getting split or getting tiebreakered

Regulus X · May 29, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

QFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFTQFT

Don't whine about balance in an intentionally balanced game.

If this is the only arguement you're able to bring to tha table, I feel very sorry for you.

If there's an imbalance, Anet needs we the community to speak up and tell them with a loud roar via these forums to get them to respond with updates and fixing things. As of right now, E/Me's are dominating all of PvP with mindless 1-2-3-4's all while blocking everything all too easily. The meta usually consists of 2-3 physicals, making up well over 50% of the damage. With E/Me's in the arenas mindlessly blocking everything, it only bogs down matches. Not to mention there's now 3 monk backlines as opposed to the past traditional two. This means there's sever defenseballing going on.

Is defenseballing good for matches? No! Slows everything down and promotes no skill. It used to be nice relying on aegis and rupting it to take down others. Now, everyone's forced to spec into stances and have more defense balling than ever before. What gives? Now, all physical attackers have to get used to seeing *block* in yellow text waaaay too much. I don't know about you, but distortion empowers too much [email protected] and is too good in PvP for it to continue following the route it's taken (abuse). It needs to r.i.p. imho, for PvP's sake (at a minimum).

Thats Too Bad · May 29, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

nu nu guyz, prot strike wasnt the problem cuz it could get dshot.