Curse

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 26, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Just wondering, when flagging and your running with the flag, say you dont have any other flagger or enemy to contend with and your running storm djinns or some other kind of enchantment.

Is it better to drop the flag and take advantage of yuor +20% ench staff, or just cast with the flag?

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 26, 2009, 08:52 PM // 20:52

yeah drop the flag

I Jonas I · Aug 26, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

When you first go to pick up the flag, cast storm djinn's haste with your +20% enchants mod when you are right next to the flag, then pick up the flag and run. Don't drop flag while you are running to cast the next storm djinns.

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 26, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen

When you first go to pick up the flag, cast storm djinn's haste with your +20% enchants mod when you are right next to the flag, then pick up the flag and run. Don't drop flag while you are running to cast the next storm djinns.

yeah drop the flag to use storm djinns

Evil Eye · Aug 26, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

That would slow you down NaturesRenewal.

lutz · Aug 26, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Depends on the enchantment. Storm Djinns is too short to really take advantage of +20% enchantments, and it's only a 25% speed boost. If you had Armor of Mist or some other faster speed boost, I would say yes.

Your time to drop + pickup is constant, and your 20% enchantment length is variate, so it has to depend on the enchantment used.

Osiris_sam · Aug 26, 2009, 11:15 PM // 23:15

the arguement here is whether dropping to lengthen your buff increases your average speed enough to counter the downtime while applying the buff. since storm djinns has a long duration and short recharge, id hasten to say that its not worth it. as lutz said, it may be worth it with armor of mist (where the average speed with longer duration is higher).

pls note i havnt run the numbers, but as a guess, it probably isnt worth it.

sam

Dawn Angelheart · Aug 27, 2009, 12:59 AM // 00:59

alright thanks. just wondering about it. i dont usually play flagger, but when i did that always came into my head.

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 27, 2009, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osiris_sam

the arguement here is whether dropping to lengthen your buff increases your average speed enough to counter the downtime while applying the buff. since storm djinns has a long duration and short recharge, id hasten to say that its not worth it. as lutz said, it may be worth it with armor of mist (where the average speed with longer duration is higher).

pls note i havnt run the numbers, but as a guess, it probably isnt worth it.

sam

The numbers have been run and assuming you run over a 10 second storm djinns and you dont have down syndrome when it comes to picking up/dropping items its worth it

Div · Aug 27, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

The numbers have been run and assuming you run over a 10 second storm djinns and you dont have down syndrome when it comes to picking up/dropping items its worth it

I'm not sure about the numbers you're mentioning, so my theory could be wrong: this results in an extra 2 seconds of storm djinns, each second allowing you to run 25% faster (or another .25s of distance based on regular speed). An extra 2 seconds works out to be an extra .5s of distance compared to regular speed (while losing 2 extra energy). So if you can drop a flag and pick up a flag in less than .5s, it's worth it. With how ping is (and there may be a delay with dropping items too), I don't think it's worth it, especially since you lose another 2 energy.

With something like armor of mist, where you can get another 2-3 seconds of speed boost (or .67 to 1s of additional distance) and +armor, and the additional benefit of HCT on a 1s cast and HSR on a 30r skill, it's definitely worth it.

With other things like featherfoot or flame djinns, I think it's still beneficial to drop the flag and swap, because the additional 3s of featherfoot bonus is worth it, and the ability to HSR flame djinns helps too.

tl;dr version:

Dropping flag good for armor of mist
Dropping flag is helpful for featherfoot, flame djinns
Dropping flag bad for storm djinns

*lemming* · Aug 28, 2009, 07:01 PM // 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Div

I'm not sure about the numbers you're mentioning, so my theory could be wrong: this results in an extra 2 seconds of storm djinns, each second allowing you to run 25% faster (or another .25s of distance based on regular speed). An extra 2 seconds works out to be an extra .5s of distance compared to regular speed (while losing 2 extra energy). So if you can drop a flag and pick up a flag in less than .5s, it's worth it. With how ping is (and there may be a delay with dropping items too), I don't think it's worth it, especially since you lose another 2 energy.

With something like armor of mist, where you can get another 2-3 seconds of speed boost (or .67 to 1s of additional distance) and +armor, and the additional benefit of HCT on a 1s cast and HSR on a 30r skill, it's definitely worth it.

With other things like featherfoot or flame djinns, I think it's still beneficial to drop the flag and swap, because the additional 3s of featherfoot bonus is worth it, and the ability to HSR flame djinns helps too.

tl;dr version:

Dropping flag good for armor of mist
Dropping flag is helpful for featherfoot, flame djinns
Dropping flag bad for storm djinns

You didn't calculate the amount of time saved from having to refresh storm djinn's less.

Also, shorter duration costs you more energy over time, not less.

scruffy · Aug 28, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

you never drop the flag because theres a chance your mom might come in the room and tell you to drink your milk/bedtime and the other team will pick it up

lutz · Aug 28, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

You didn't calculate the amount of time saved from having to refresh storm djinn's less.

Also, shorter duration costs you more energy over time, not less.

Let's model the situation in terms of mathematics! Yay!

Let:
c = amount of time required for flag drop + flag pickup
v = velocity at which a player runs with the flag and no speed boost
d = distance between flag and stand
s = speed boost duration without enchanting mod
b = speed boost % buff (in direct % as the game dictates)
a = casting time of spell in s
p = ping in s (so 100 ms = .1s)
t = time necessary to get to flag stand

So we can write the following equation that dictates the player going to the flag stand from the flag spawn with dropping the flag:

With dropping flag:
t = d/(v(1+b)) + (c+a+p-((a/2)*(floor(floor(t/(s*1.2))*.36)))*floor(t/(1.2s))

Without dropping flag:
t = d/(v*(1+b)) + a*floor(t/s)

Does anyone have any clue how to compare the two equations? It probably involves diff eq and some higher level mathematics, which I don't feel like doing or I don't know how to do.
So someone else can do it.
Like Lemming.
He did well in math ^.^

Sankt Hallvard · Aug 28, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

So we can write the following equation that dictates the player going to the flag stand from the flag spawn with dropping the flag:

[persuasive maths]

I concur.
12 chars.

Div · Aug 28, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

You didn't calculate the amount of time saved from having to refresh storm djinn's less.

Also, shorter duration costs you more energy over time, not less.

I made the assumption that I would just run 12s with storm djinns, and 2s without, instead of recasting as soon as it ended.