Curse

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 26, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91ntucker

I'll just start this out myself

.

I think that a new form of PvP could help to bring the game back.

Personally, I'd like to see a weekend competition.
Sealed deck tournaments- 6v6- between guilds with in-game prizes*

[Nothing amazing, other wise i could see this being abused]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pursh

I personally think they should add a 6v6 arena again, then all forms of PvP will be complete there will be 4v4, 6v6, 8v8. They had 6v6 arenas in the early days of Guild Wars but removed them after the release of CA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by God_Hand

*Reads title*

Personally, I'd just use a res sig.

On Topic: I'd like to see a 10v10 mode where teams consist of one player of each primary profession, and no secondaries.

A new form of pvp will not bring the game back. The problem is the amount of players, and to increase the playerbase you need to encourage PvE players to move to PvP, not split the remaining pvp community up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightschroud

guild wars is not a dead game nor is it dying in any way
unless you can proove otherwise there's no need for this thead

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Will Farm For Gold-

I think they need to pick up the PvP a lot. GW2 better have some great PvP or else it won't be that great. HA used to be a lot of fun and now it is dead. I don't know whether they should buff some skills to make allow more "fun" PvP builds or what. I would be happy to go back to the IWAY days if it meant more players in HA. There is no PvP gameplay anymore imo. PvE is great though.

This isnt really a suggestion to do anything, you just said "pick up pvp". GW1 had probably one of the deepest and most interesting pvp of any competitive game to date.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Bring HA back to it's former glory.

6v6, tombs.

Get rid of ranks.

6v6 tombs isnt the days of its former glory, believe me. Also as posted above, if they removed ranks it would only hurt your chances of getting better. Right now there are friend/guild teams - rank pugs - random groups. Teams of friends or guilds(good guilds) dominate HA and ranked pugs have a shot at winning occasionally, and random groups nearly never win but still do sometimes. If you remove the ability of ranked pugs you are killing your stepping stone to becoming a good player. You can never expect to move up and get better slowly, you will always be stuck in random groups and never be noticed. As much as you want to believe that the groups that hold halls or win 3+ matches are "r6+" or "r9+" they arent. Those groups are almost as bad as randoms, and HA is dominated by good people who have a clue and dont bother playing in ranked groups anyway. The "get rid of rank" cry is only justifyable by the lowest level of bad player who does not care about getting better or the community and only wants to win, and win right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bristlebane

We will most likely not see any new contents in GW1, so let's just focus on what we already got.

1. Take the least favorite profession ingame and make it your main for a while. Find out what makes it good, learn to love it.
2. Try out more gimmicky builds, don't get stuck with cookie cutter builds.
3. Meet new people in game, either by PUGs or by new guilds. (And yeah, sometimes you DO meet nice good players in PUGs).
4. If you mainly PVE, learn to enjoy PVP more.
5. And of course opposite if you PVP mostly.
6. Take on the challenge of making a survivor in Pre Searing.
7. Make absurd guild competitions with absurd prices.. for example.. first guildy to bring you Little Thom's Cloak AND a black bear from Pre Searing to Shing Jea monastery, still being level 1, wins 100k and a hug.

1. doesnt bring players back
2. gimmick builds are cookie cutter builds in my eyes
3. why? there is no incentive to pug when every other good player isnt.
4. yes <--
5. no pve
6. no pve
7. no pve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ex Death

Can you people stop talking about introducing new pvp types? That is probably the number 1 biggest reason why this game is 'dead'.

lol
see below

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I'm going to have to disagree here. I feel it was the reckless class/skill additions along with poor understanding of core game mechanics and lack of support that moved the game away from requiring a dismantling of a team's build to the modern 3,2,1 offenses that just push through any build.

yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

Wouldn't make the game more popular, but in GvG a randomized unrated like in HB *might* convince some more guilds to try it out.

there was an unrated random gvg search a long time ago, and it was taken out because it was useless. Every team had either 4 hench or was afk, and it took an hour to find a game. Try and convince 7 other people to log on and play against a team that will not give them good practice for no rating value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scruffy

"Once high end players quit it is impossible for newer players to get better so the game slowly dies"

What?

So how did the high end players get good in the first place? The game died because there were absolutely no tournaments in a supposed competative game for a year.

There were an over abundance of new players with reasonable teamwork experience and knowledge of playing competitive games in the pvp scene. "pugs" were actually reasonable because you could learn something from them, and it wasnt just a bunch of idiots. No offense but anyone who isnt atleast rank 9 by now and cares about HA must have very little ability/game knowledge if any at all. When 8 people are saying "i dont get fame cus my group sucks" you have to wonder...

People got good because there was
1. Tournaments
2. In game rewards(fame when it meant something, high guild rank when it meant something, faction when you werent UAX, halls drops that were worth alot of money)
3. a new game with a fresh feel that gave people an incentive to learn.

People who are coming into the pvp scene now arent people that just purcased the game with reasonable competive experience(it costs alot of money, or atleast it did for a long time) they are just pve people being discouraged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin

People who want to get into PvP need coaching from others, and saying LEARN 2 PLAY NUB isn't going to do anything than drive them away.

yeah

Swahnee · Aug 26, 2009, 06:57 PM // 18:57

So what are your suggestions?

You agreed with Sarevok, so maybe you think that other guilds could follow the example of [kiSu] and teach PvP to new players/PvE'rs?

I would like something like this a lot. What do you think about it?

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 26, 2009, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Personally I think the best option, is levels of training instead of one "mentor guild". For instance, nearly everything I do is pretty much melted into my brain and I don't have to think about it. Ive tried many times to help people little to no pvp knowledge to try to get into the game but so much of the stuff just goes over their head and is not much help to them. I think there are many people in this game who arent considered top pvpers who could still make a world of difference to lower level players. Have a group of people from rank 500-250 guilds teaching pvers and low level how to get into pvp. Then have another group of people from top 100 guilds teaching people in rank 500-250 who have an understanding of pvp but arent at a very high level yet.

I was part of the original KiSu mentor roster but I think there was just too many people wanting to learn and not enough teachers. The offer still extends from me and a lot of other higher up players if your guild is willing to learn and can put up a full roster of people we will come guest and teach you some gvg stuff, but I think it is the responsibility of the guild being taught to get enough people together. It was too much work having to gather and organize people in kisu.

91ntucker · Aug 26, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

First of all, I'd like to thank everyone who posted, and encourage everyone to read what has been said.

Those of you who discussed why the game was dead, off topic as it may be, Have my thanks as well. Afterall, without a deeper understanding of how this situation came to pass, our thoughts on the matter are much less effective.

So, for that reason, I'd welcome any further insight (that hasn't been given already) into the game's situation, along with anything else you think would help get the game up on its feet.

PS:
@ NaturesRenewal [Deer]
That is a very interesting idea, and I'd love to see it work.
How would you pull it off? What would it take? How many people? etc.
This could be what Guild Wars needs.

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 26, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

not to put down the thread but its too late man, gw is dead

91ntucker · Aug 26, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

@ NaturesRenewal [Deer] If Guild Wars wasn't dead this post wouldn't exist

.

Some things I enjoy doing when things get too serious:

ByoB(Bring your own Build) GvG.

Going to AB with 4 sins and ganking people instead of capping.

If theres a really good team in TA: Bringing 3 other people and having a naked running competition

. Rules: Festival hat with no armor. Resign to RA groups, and bad teams- they dont need the grief. People who die pay X gold to who ever lives the entire match.

Dodgeball. (Dodging lightning orbs with 105 HP).

Did I Miss anything?

Reverend Dr · Aug 27, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

not to put down the thread but its too late man, gw is dead

Once I had an idea that I felt would reinvigorate the PvP population. But it involved changing the buy-model of PvP-only accounts and then an aggressive marketing campaign advertising those changes. Of course neither is going to happen so its hardly worth discussing and any hope it had gets lower every day.

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 27, 2009, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Once I had an idea that I felt would reinvigorate the PvP population. But it involved changing the buy-model of PvP-only accounts and then an aggressive marketing campaign advertising those changes. Of course neither is going to happen so its hardly worth discussing and any hope it had gets lower every day.

Ive been seeing you post on these forums for months and I've always assumed you were reverend moonie which I just learned that you are not. Who are you?

Swahnee · Aug 27, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Well, i think that, amongst all the suggestions made in this forum, the only one that's feasible is the "training guilds" one. Hoping that ANet will introduce new forms of PvP and new ladders because they read this thread is foolish IMHO. So what's really feasible in my view is to organize ourselves, forming guilds with different levels of PvP players and teaching those who want to learn PvP.

I'm sure that you know perfectly well that this topic (bring new blood into PvP, teaching people, etc.) has been beaten to death. For exaple, I remember Fril Estelin's thread on riverside a while ago on this matter, but there were others..

But the fact that we are here again talking about this, could probably mean that something can be done, that there's an interest about this subject amongst people. Yes, it's true that 4 years are passed, and that GW2 will probably be out within one year or a bit more, but what have we to lose? It's only a matter of organization amongst players, without any cost, without ANet releasing any new content at all. Furthermore, this could bring back players who have stopped playing or who are bored, who can be interested in teaching or learning PvP.

I think that guru could be used to help this teaching guilds' organization, maybe using this forum or the PvP guild recruitment, i don't know..

But what i wanted to say is that, even if the game is dead, or it is dying, or whatever, it could be nice and interesting to try forming guilds with this purpose, and it wouldn't cost anything IMHO..

N.B.: i know that i'm a bit idealist..please forgive me^^

fowlero · Aug 27, 2009, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Could start by stop making broken stuff.

FYI Anet, Expertise & FastCasting -> Ranger only skills & Mesmer only skills. You've been told this so so many times.

This way you'll keep hold of more of your existing playerbase (maybe).

NaturesRenewal[Deer] · Aug 27, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

Well, i think that, amongst all the suggestions made in this forum, the only one that's feasible is the "training guilds" one. Hoping that ANet will introduce new forms of PvP and new ladders because they read this thread is foolish IMHO. So what's really feasible in my view is to organize ourselves, forming guilds with different levels of PvP players and teaching those who want to learn PvP.

I'm sure that you know perfectly well that this topic (bring new blood into PvP, teaching people, etc.) has been beaten to death. For exaple, I remember Fril Estelin's thread on riverside a while ago on this matter, but there were others..

But the fact that we are here again talking about this, could probably mean that something can be done, that there's an interest about this subject amongst people. Yes, it's true that 4 years are passed, and that GW2 will probably be out within one year or a bit more, but what have we to lose? It's only a matter of organization amongst players, without any cost, without ANet releasing any new content at all. Furthermore, this could bring back players who have stopped playing or who are bored, who can be interested in teaching or learning PvP.

I think that guru could be used to help this teaching guilds' organization, maybe using this forum or the PvP guild recruitment, i don't know..

But what i wanted to say is that, even if the game is dead, or it is dying, or whatever, it could be nice and interesting to try forming guilds with this purpose, and it wouldn't cost anything IMHO..

N.B.: i know that i'm a bit idealist..please forgive me^^

game...is....dead

91ntucker · Aug 27, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

I agree with you Swahnee. We have another (year/year and a half?) till Guild Wars 2 comes out. Its too early to drop the ball on Guild Wars.

This is where we're at:
A very feasible solution to a dying Guild Wars: Training Guilds for all levels of players.

What it'd take:
From my perspective, on the Guru side; it would need a forum for canidates to signup for training, maybe a forum for the "Teachers" to answer questions that people ask, a Forum for Teachers to sign up to train at the various levels. A forum for Mentors to post a weekly adgenda.

From ANet: Involvement by Regina Buenobora (forgive me if i miss spelled) the CR would be a huge help.

In game; I could see this working as an alliance of guilds at different skill levels. Teachers/Mentors taking the role of officer in the guild.
It would require committment from both students and teachers.

Reverend Dr · Aug 27, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

game...is....dead

^^ this

Only things that could possibly put more players into GW would be large programs accompanied by lots of marketing. In any case it would require a lot of attention and money being given to GW, both of which Anet is just clearly not going to do at this time.

Swahnee · Aug 27, 2009, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91ntucker

I agree with you Swahnee. We have another (year/year and a half?) till Guild Wars 2 comes out. Its too early to drop the ball on Guild Wars.

This is where we're at:
A very feasible solution to a dying Guild Wars: Training Guilds for all levels of players.

What it'd take:
From my perspective, on the Guru side; it would need a forum for canidates to signup for training, maybe a forum for the "Teachers" to answer questions that people ask, a Forum for Teachers to sign up to train at the various levels. A forum for Mentors to post a weekly adgenda.

From ANet: Involvement by Regina Buenobora (forgive me if i miss spelled) the CR would be a huge help.

In game; I could see this working as an alliance of guilds at different skill levels. Teachers/Mentors taking the role of officer in the guild.
It would require committment from both students and teachers.

I'd say that the very first thing is to find people interested in this project..then the forums will come naturally IMHO.

I don't think that the training guilds have to be in the same alliance, i think this could be a problem instead, because probably guilds would like to be free to choose their own allies. The organization could be done using the forum though. But these are details for now.

However, the first step is to find people interested ..surely there will be those who say that the game is dead, but nobody is forced to partecipate. And, as i said above, nobody has nothing to lose..

91ntucker · Aug 27, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

I'd say that the very first thing is to find people interested in this project..then the forums will come naturally IMHO.

I don't think that the training guilds have to be in the same alliance, i think this could be a problem instead, because probably guilds would like to be free to choose their own allies. The organization could be done using the forum though. But these are details for now.

However, the first step is to find people interested ..surely there will be those who say that the game is dead, but nobody is forced to partecipate. And, as i said above, nobody has nothing to lose..

Ideas on how to Advertise?

I wouldn't mind making a thread just to see how many people are up for this.. or we could use this one.

Swahnee · Aug 28, 2009, 08:22 AM // 08:22

You could try to make a new thread on Riverside, but the risk for it to be closed, or to die sinking into the sea of the "gw's dead" posts seems high..however, you've got nothing to lose.

Maybe to contact via PM other guru users who could be interested (i remember Fril Estelin, but we can search other threads on this subject), just to start creating a playerbase.

To contact [kiSu] officers, or maybe even Billiard, to ask for advices. I mean, someone with experience on this kind of things..

Can't think of anything else at the moment..

Fril Estelin · Aug 30, 2009, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaturesRenewal[Deer]

game...is....dead

Don't be put off by these comments, Swahnee, 91ntucker, there's still life in GW. The idea of training is a good one and requires a "critical mass" of players working towards it, something I don't time to contribute for the next few weeks but this is an idea worth exploring, I know at least one player (zwei2stein) who could also join the fray. And with sealed deck coming, there's going to be a small wave of increased activity, so don't loose hope! Feel free to PM me ingame ofc.

EDIT: advertising a group is best done in the PUGs and Grouping subforum:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=269

Swahnee · Aug 30, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Yes i read now the news about the sealed deck idea, and i find it really exciting^^

Now i'm taking a break from GW, waiting for some friends to start playing in the next weeks. Then i will probably focus on finding little by little people interested in learning PvP in those italian districts

, keeping an eye on the situation here on guru.

Well, this is my schedule for now^^ even if i know that i won't have a lot of time because in October university will start again..

However, i hope for the best, thank you for all your support^^

Reverend Dr · Aug 30, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

"No one ever tries to train" <- Bullshit

Over the years there have been many that were willing to train, many that indeed have attempted to train. I gave up on it over three years ago. People are largely not willing to learn. It is not something that is passive, that simply by being in the right environment one can learn, it is something one has to put forth effort. Those that are going to put forth the effort are going to succeed even without a training format, those that are terrible, will stay terrible, and bring down their whole team are going to stay as such, just stay around longer. The number of people that will be successfully brought into the PvP community through these type of programs is terribly small.

Yes the community is dying. It is dying from a loss of players. However I am sick of "Its dying because of discrimination and you don't train" or " we need to train." Neither of these has any relevance upon why PvP is dying.

There are three types of people that don't play PvP
1) Never played the game: These people will never play PvP because the game is still poorly advertised and even if it wasn't the monetary cost to get into PvP is too high for a starting player. Someone is going to say PvP-pack, remember you have to have everything unlocked before you can even start learning to play so Kit+proph+core+faction+nightfall+eotn+items = $80. Even if the cost was reduced the competitive play in GW is pretty terrible when compared to the most popular competitive games.

2) Hardcore PvE: These are people that have gone through all of the content of the game and yet are still playing. If they wanted something new instead of running the same dungeon for the 100th time, they would have either started playing PvP or quit and played a new game. Largely this group is self-entitled and just as ego-centric as the worst of the PvP community, so much so that Riverside placates them by saying that PvP vs PvE that neither is harder they are just different. No, this part of the GW community is never going to play PvP.

3) Players going through the game for the first time: Why someone is going through a game this old for the first time or so is rare enough, but these are about the only people that can reasonably start PvPing. They are going to run out of content soon, they will either become a hardcore PvE, start PvP, or quit. Even if they start, they have a whole lot to keep them from playing. Not just finding a guild, but the grind required. First, you must have all of the expansions so money is required. Second, you must have everything unlocked (at the bare minimum, almost everything) which is a ton of PvE time or PvP farming. You might even have to unlock HA, that's right it starts locked out from new players.

It isn't the PvP community. It isn't the lack of training. In fact it isn't even the terrible attitude of people that "have tried" PvP and hated it. It was Anet's business model. Faction's release signaled the death toll in very many ways.

91ntucker · Aug 31, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Don't be put off by these comments, Swahnee, 91ntucker, there's still life in GW. The idea of training is a good one and requires a "critical mass" of players working towards it, something I don't time to contribute for the next few weeks but this is an idea worth exploring, I know at least one player (zwei2stein) who could also join the fray. And with sealed deck coming, there's going to be a small wave of increased activity, so don't loose hope! Feel free to PM me ingame ofc.

EDIT: advertising a group is best done in the PUGs and Grouping subforum:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/f...play.php?f=269

I agree with you Fril. With the new Sealed Deck "solution" around the corner, this is the time to get our ducks in a row.

We need to establish a base of people interested in training or learning.

What do you think a reasonable requirement would be for the Trainees & Mentors?
What should the Mentor-/-Trainee ratio be?
Last of all, who out there can help? This isn't a small endevor and will require time and planning.

(These questions aren't solely directed at Fril, but towards the community as a whole)