Curse

Krill · Aug 04, 2009, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

The only problem I see with dev hammer wars is that they can be shutdown so easy....

Fainthehartedness completely destroys a hammer making them attack once every 3 seconds which ruins a chain...

Balanced stance can ever be activated while KD'd(which they really need to change) so it's almost impossible to keep a monk knock locked...

Guardian/Distortion can ruin a KD as well.

-Faint hurts all martial classes, there aren't tons of curses necros in AB (that know what they're doing) anyway. VoR mesmers with empathy are much more common and it's incredibly easy to kill them before they cast it, or you can still usually kill them first attacking through it with a hammer.

-You don't always have to immediately go to monk stomping. Monks with balanced stance are difficult but you can always hit something else until it expires. Against shadow arts monks dev hammer is best because it's easy to quarter break return.

-Mind blast eles with distortion aren't all that common and guardian shouldn't completely shut you down either.

The great part about dev hammer is it's versatility. You can monk stomp, you can keep anyone out of action with it, you can lineback and it's great for capping shrines. The only downside is flail which requires some thinking ahead and good use of bull's so you're not stuck in it. I also enjoy cripslash and coward but every time you use frenzy in AB it's like a giant beacon for everyone to hit you, and keep hitting you after it's canceled, ruining your damage. With dev hammer, when someone has the idea they are going to c-space or lineback you forever it's no problem to deal with them.

dorin · Aug 04, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

The only problem I see with dev hammer wars is that they can be shutdown so easy. Especially in AB where you are fighting against 12 others.

Fainthehartedness completely destroys a hammer making them attack once every 3 seconds which ruins a chain.
Balanced stance can ever be activated while KD'd(which they really need to change) so it's almost impossible to keep a monk knock locked.
Guardian/Distortion can ruin a KD as well.

I didn't mean Moriz build was for 1v1 but more for single target, I just stated it wrong last night. The thing I like about my build is that it can fight single targets by doing over 50 damage every auto attack with HB + vamp sword (against squishys of course) and over 100 damage when hit by sun/moon.

When I mentioned versatility, I meant that it's fairly harder to completely shut me down and that I can do multiple things(see versatility).

I can still do damage while the people are blocking because of HB, not much but it's better than none.
I can do single target, AoE, or solo shrine capping.

I might put in Levithian's Sweep somewhere (probably for sprint) for KD whilst the monk uses guardian.
And I might change to frenzy/rush instead of flail/enraging charge. But as I mentioned earlier, this build is to cap shrines and fight bunched up foes and the AI don't run away often. And if I used frenzy, I would not be able to solo cap shrines.

and the reason why I like to cap is because even though my team is balanced, most of the other teams in AB just invite everyone they can and go out to fight. so normally they are very unorganized and we only have 1 monk per 12 chars...

Wrong again .

You fight against 4 players not 12. If I remeber good, a formation formed by more than 4 players it`s called mob. And one of the AB rules says : avoid mob, don`t charge it , run and cap behind. Or, you can try to split it in some way , but in this case you know about the consequences

Also you`re talking about anti-melee hexes and monk`s block. Do you understand what a balanced team is ? For that there are monks ( removing hexes/conditions and healing ) ranger or mesmer ( interupting , spreading conditions or applying hexes . all in its proper time ).
You need to understand one think : do you think you can kill a good player thyself ? NO. You need your teammates for that. You just put pressure on target and help .

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

We all know that things don't work out picture perfect and like I said, I try to get a balanced team but I can't rely on the other squads of 4.

I don't see where I was wrong. You are fighting 12 others. Maybe not all at once but they are there(unless they leave ofc)

@ Krill - I believe I played with you in RA on my dev hammer war and I like playing dev hammer in RA but I don't feel it's as effective in AB.

Revelations · Aug 04, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

AB is the best excuse out there to run manly charge war.

Charge
Dismember
Body Blow
AgChop
Frenzy
Rush/Sprint
Bull's
Shock

Also, eating melshot and still moving at faster than normal speed is hawt.

Shatterstone is big domage. Not really sure it has a niche in AB, but fun as hell to snare and blow up your opposition anyway.

Shatterstone
FGust
Shard Storm
Deep Freeze
GoLE
Water attune
Armor of mist
Healbreeze

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 04, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

The only problem I see with dev hammer wars is that they can be shutdown so easy. Especially in AB where you are fighting against 12 others.

Fainthehartedness completely destroys a hammer making them attack once every 3 seconds which ruins a chain.
Balanced stance can ever be activated while KD'd(which they really need to change) so it's almost impossible to keep a monk knock locked.
Guardian/Distortion can ruin a KD as well.

and the reason why I like to cap is because even though my team is balanced, most of the other teams in AB just invite everyone they can and go out to fight. so normally they are very unorganized and we only have 1 monk per 12 chars...

1: Hammer wars do get screwed over pretty bad by faint, but it doesn't screw up your chain completely assuming you're using Flail once Dev hits - Faint means 1 less attack between KD's. You can still prevent the nec from casting 1sec spells. It's also not even that common in AB.

2: Balanced Stance is an issue. If you're good though, you can guess it's duration and go back to that monk. If you can't kill anyone from the other team just because the monk has Bstance, you're not doing your job as a warrior, which is putting out constant pressure/dps to drain the monk's energy. Another option is using Wild throw.

3: Guardian takes 1sec to cast. Force the monk to use it on another target then run straight to him as soon as it's casted and start KD'ing. I do it all the time.

4: People are too stupid to realize that Distortion is stupidly strong with MB - it's even less common than Faint.

Wars are only easy to counter if you're lazy/stupid or have a bad monk. If you're good and are paying attention, you'll focus on targets that are shutting you down. Not all teams have monks, and even then, most of them are bad.

Anyways, if you wanna play the counter game.....a good monk will whip out a slashing shield once you jump on him. If he's also meeting the req on that shield, it'll have 26+al against your damage. That's alot.

Quote:

The thing I like about my build is that it can fight single targets by doing over 50 damage every auto attack with HB + vamp sword (against squishys of course) and over 100 damage when hit by sun/moon.

Crushing Blow from a hammer can do 90'ish + 100hp lost because of deep wound. Like I mentioned, hammer auto-attacks are still as strong as a hit from an HB sword. That doesn't make HB look very good. It's lousy AoE damage doesn't either. Use a Barbs nec or don't bother with it at all - any decent fire ele will turn your elite to waste when it comes to shrine capping.

Quote:

When I mentioned versatility, I meant that it's fairly harder to completely shut me down and that I can do multiple things(see versatility).

Doing "multiple things" isn't a very good way to describe versatility.

If there's a melee guy harassing your monk, the best you can do is Bull's Strike it. I'd say Shock but you shouldn't be spamming that. A Dev war can keep it on it's ass for a long time, giving the monk a chance to rest. If there's a caster/monk that needs shutting down, then you KD spam it. If you go upto any anti-melee caster with that HB build, you're just gonna get hex spammed and won't really be able to do anything about it. At that point, you'll become more of a burden to the monk rather than a useful player.

You're actually sacrificing versatility by using HB. If you really wanted to, you could dedicate an entire team to shrine capping....but the more suited you are to killing braindead NPC's, the less likely you are to win a 4v4 against another team. If you can prevent a shrine from being taken by defending it, you're basically recapping it. In the long run, that wins games. If your team is good enough to kill players left and right, they'll be capping much slower, then you got an easy win.

I personally hate AB'ing with pugs. I'm always with guildies are were often on vent often so it makes teamwork so much easier.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheTank

Hey, I'm telling you what works. Capping is the most essential part of AB. Go QQ somewhere else.

capping will merely make you break even, or stay on pace. killing the other teams will cause you to win.

there's a time and place for everything in AB, even a 12 man zerg rush can be beneficial if the situation calls for it. you only need one character per team that's capable of nuking npcs. you don't need all 12 people to be nukers.

after all, dead people don't cap; and the quickest way to cause them to die, is to kill them.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

capping will merely make you break even, or stay on pace. killing the other teams will cause you to win.

after all, dead people don't cap.

true but you need to cap to get points.

basically you need a good balance or you will be demolished

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

true but you need to cap to get points.

basically you need a good balance or you will be demolished

every kill gives you 3 points. in fact, wiping an opposing team is one of the quickest ways to gain points. a shrine gains 1 point every 7 seconds. a good team can wipe another within 20 seconds, yielding 12 points.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

every kill gives you 3 points. in fact, wiping an opposing team is one of the quickest ways to gain points. a shrine gains 1 point every 7 seconds. a good team can wipe another within 20 seconds, yielding 12 points.

but with 5 shrines you get 15 points in 21 seconds. so if you can control at least 4 points and defend them. then you are good to go

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 09:30 PM // 21:30

and how would you defend your shrines? oh that's right, you have to kill the other teams.

the point being, you don't need all 12 players dedicated in capping shrines. you only need 3 or 4 of them.

here's a scenario: you've just capped a shrine. you have a warrior (with a build better than the one you posted), a necro, a monk, and a ranger. right as you are about to leave, an opposing team comes in. they have a warrior, a ranger, and two nukers. do you:

A) run around them to cap the next shrine

or

B) kill them

Lux Aeterna · Aug 04, 2009, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Interestingly, there's actually barely any melee shutdown in AB -- unlike in arenas where you'll get hexed stacked to uselessness at the start of any fight, you can generally run whatever build you want in AB and stay clean of antimelee for the entire time because everyone runs fire eles or palm sins. Hex stacks can be a deciding factor when some idiot guild group thinks it's TA, but otherwise you won't have to worry about anything but empathy once per round (for the most part).

Shrimz: fighting is a very useful, game deciding tactic when used well, which means you have to win quickly.

A big strength in any AB leader is the ability to choose when and how to successfully direct his party into a fight.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 04, 2009, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Aeterna

Hex stacks can be a deciding factor when some idiot guild group thinks it's TA, but otherwise you won't have to worry about anything but empathy once per round (for the most part).

What's wrong with a TA'ish hex stacker?

I run a curses nec with the guild on a few occasions. Corrupt/Rip Enchant with FF and a few antimelee stuff (Enfeeble, Faint, Reckless, IP). Gets through most defenses, provides minor support, and keeps the melee off our monk. Overall it provides more power to take on other teams.

I actually run a water snarer alot more though (alongside 2 wars usually). It's a good way to slow down other guys that are on their way to cap a shrine.

bungusmaximus · Aug 04, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

...and the quickest way to cause them to die, is to kill them.

don't u just LOVE this man? But on a more serious note, yeh hes right. Teams that only avoid other players are a liability once people don't let them near shrines to begin with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

every kill gives you 3 points. in fact, wiping an opposing team is one of the quickest ways to gain points. a shrine gains 1 point every 7 seconds. a good team can wipe another within 20 seconds, yielding 12 points.

This works till you find out the other team doesn't easily wipe, when it starts to look like an RA fight it's time to gtfo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

What's wrong with a TA'ish hex stacker?

They're absolutely fine. but somehow people don't seem to run them that often.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

and how would you defend your shrines? oh that's right, you have to kill the other teams.

the point being, you don't need all 12 players dedicated in capping shrines. you only need 3 or 4 of them.

here's a scenario: you've just capped a shrine. you have a warrior (with a build better than the one you posted), a necro, a monk, and a ranger. right as you are about to leave, an opposing team comes in. they have a warrior, a ranger, and two nukers. do you:

A) run around them to cap the next shrine

or

B) kill them

I would fight them because you have a more balanced team + if you cap the nukers will demolish the shrine within seconds anyways.

And it's really easy to move out of the AoE of the nukers.

Too bad what we are talking about is never how it works with PUGs because they just run and do whatever instead of listen..

I get hexed quite often as a war from a VoR mes or a curses nec + I'm always burning...

@Gullinda... will you please stfu, you're so f'ing annoying dude. go talk to someone who actually cares what you think, but I doubt anyone does.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 04, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

I get hexed quite often as a war from a VoR mes or a curses nec + I'm always burning...

It's ok to use skills through VoR if you know when to do it (and assuming you have a decent monk).

I see curse necs on a few occasions, but it's not often that I see them being backed up by a good monk. They're usually not that much of a threat since most of them are bad. Depending on the hexes, I can usually still keep them KD locked so the other war/etc can kill it.

If you don't really have any form of disruption, they're free to reapply anything that gets removed.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

It's ok to use skills through VoR if you know when to do it (and assuming you have a decent monk).

I see curse necs on a few occasions, but it's not often that I see them being backed up by a good monk. They're usually not that much of a threat since most of them are bad. Depending on the hexes, I can usually still keep them KD locked so the other war/etc can kill it.

If you don't really have any form of disruption, they're free to reapply anything that gets removed.

Yeah, normally I don't trust my monk enough to fight through VoR.. not even empathy or IP..

I need to get a guild that AB's more lol

Sun Fired Blank · Aug 04, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Okay, here is the deal.

Shrimz, your build is mediocre. You don't understand that AB is more than just capturing shrines. If your only goal is to capture shrines than you should just run something more useful. Your bar doesn't have many of the instruments required to threaten any player of reasonable caliber. Straight damage, if reduced to manageable levels, rarely threatens anyone.

Frontliners are largely unsuitable for clearing some of the shrines (elementalist, necromancer) by themselves, and the other shrines (ritualist, monk, ranger) don't require any serious investment for capture. Dedicating so many slots on your bar for that one purpose is dumb.

moriz and others have tried repeatedly to argue this point. They're right. You're wrong. I'm sorry, I don't often step in like this, but six more pages of this kind of arguing leads nowhere, so I'm concluding the argument for everyone.

If you wish to play with the build, that is your prerogative. If you're effective with the build, then so be it. You're constraining yourself by running an inferior build, and you're gimping yourself on conceptually understanding the format.

If a post isn't here it's because I deleted it, and I deleted it for not contributing or flaming. If you can't figure out you're being rude, I don't mind taking more severe action.

Move on.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

Okay, here is the deal.

Shrimz, your build is mediocre. You don't understand that AB is more than just capturing shrines. If your only goal is to capture shrines than you should just run something more useful. Your bar doesn't have many of the instruments required to threaten any player of reasonable caliber. Straight damage, if reduced to manageable levels, rarely threatens anyone.

Frontliners are largely unsuitable for clearing some of the shrines (elementalist, necromancer) by themselves, and the other shrines (ritualist, monk, ranger) don't require any serious investment for capture. Dedicating so many slots on your bar for that one purpose is dumb.

moriz and others have tried repeatedly to argue this point. They're right. You're wrong. I'm sorry, I don't often step in like this, but six more pages of this kind of arguing leads nowhere, so I'm concluding the argument for everyone.

If you wish to play with the build, that is your prerogative. If you're effective with the build, then so be it. You're constraining yourself by running an inferior build, and you're gimping yourself on conceptually understanding the format.

If a post isn't here it's because I deleted it, and I deleted it for not contributing or flaming. If you can't figure out you're being rude, I don't mind taking more severe action.

Move on.

I have already moved on...

I just tried to post a build that you guys might have some fun trying out. I know it's inferior to an ele(for capping) or another war with a different build(for single target fighting) but I just wanted to make something that I could have fun with and decided to share it with you. The build was made only too do something different.

I won't even argue with you Sun.. because you pulled out the mod card. You just need to read more lol.

Anyone that talks about my build anymore, I will ignore. Let's move on... someone else need to post a build lol. That's what this thread is about.

GuLLinda · Aug 04, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Sad but true, it's 100% fact.

But on-topic!

VoR
Shame
Power Drain
Power Spike
"Fall Back"
Empathy
Backfire
Drain ench

Pretty default, few changes but decent in a team.

moriz · Aug 05, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

wastrel's collapse
falling spider
vampiric assault
impale
signet of toxic shock
dark prison
palm strike
dash