Curse

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 01:20 AM // 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

No deep wound, no plus dmg attack skills. All you are doing is normal attacks and using hundred blades to add a little bit more damage to the meaningless amount you already do. Seriously you wouldn't be able to kill a monk that just stands still and uses patient spirit, let alone a competent monk that has prots like shielding hands and/or shield of absorption. How can you even argue this build is good? What the hell is going on in your mind to make you think this is a good build?

No math.. first thing I notice. Secondly... if you say that shielding hands is going to stop me, why wouldn't a monk use dismiss condition to cure deep wound? OMG, they can remove deep wound? omfg!#$

+ this build isn't used to skill random monks. It's used to pressure monks by attacking balled up foes with AoE damage. Or to solo cap shrines.

Moderator's Edit: removed off-topic material.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Moderator's Edit: removed reference to deleted material.

here's the mathematical breakdown of your build:

average sword DPS @14 swordsmanship: 15.4 (average of 17-24 after swordsmanship bonus, divided by 1.33)
hundred blades DPS @14 swordsmanship: 18.05 (24 / 1.33)
total dps before IAS and attack skills: 33.45
add in sun and moon slash: 41.8
add in IAS: 55.6

the sun and moon slash damage is hard to calculate. you are reliant on the adrenaline gained from LC to trigger it fast. however, every time you use LC, you stop attacking for 1.75 seconds (1 second cast + .75second aftercast). i've given you a rather generous estimate and gave you one extra attack every four attacks (so x5/4).

as you can see, 55.6 DPS is not particularly impressive. indeed, it is dramatically lower than that of a standard shock axe (70), than that of the moebius strike assassin (105). it does do more than twice the damage of a typical cripshot ranger (24); however, you lack the mobility, utility, and map control from said ranger.

not to mention, you also effectively drop your DPS to zero as soon as you activate flail against any semi-decent player. so all that above merely means the amount of damage you'll do against a softy npc. it also proves that your build absolutely cannot take down a shrine in 5 seconds. if the npc has absolutely no ability to heal and/or fight back (this is never the case), you'll kill ONE of the npcs in around 10 seconds.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Moderator's Edit: Don't snark people that give you exactly what you ask for. Also, you don't have to quote something if the post is above you.

I'm suprised you actually did the math. You also didn't figure in the AoE damage depending on the balled up foes. I know it's hard to calc but if there are 2 other foes near me, I am also doing AoE damage from HB (x2 if using sun/moon which I am able to use about every 3 seconds of attacking) which easily raises my DPS to over 70 which is a typical shock axe(as you said).

And can sins really keep up that 105 dps even when their chain is done?

EDIT: Playing AB now if you guys wanna.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

here, i've also taken the trouble of actually testing your build. here is the result:

so, you do 48 DPS on a single target. even lower than the best case estimate that i gave you.

btw, your AOE range is so small and so easy to avoid that i would not bother factoring in. you build simply isn't a large enough threat to anything. you also have to stop every few hits to use LC, which means you'll lose ground to any kiting targets. not only is your build weak, it is also unwieldy.

Lexar · Aug 04, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Not to be a prick but half-decent players that turn and run when you turn on flail or anything else like that, are hugely uncommon in AB. I frequently use protectors defence and it works great even though it would cancel as soon as I make a single step. Nobody ever seems to think of that. Ever.

Loss of mobility is only a downside in theory but in practice it hardly ever makes a difference since your enemies will never even think to kite. And even if you did encounter someone who sees through that, you just brush it off and move on to the next target who won't move away from you.

That being said the hundred blades build from last page wouldn't be able to kill monk npcs. Not in a million years, let alone 5 seconds. Or an ele shrine for that matter since you'll be dead in 5 seconds. Or a shrine where a rit npc has set up his spirits.
And just killing npc's isnt good enough anyway since you're bound to run into players. If you dont prepare for that, you won't be using your full potential.

Here's my advice to you.

You're going to need a deep wound most of all. If you really want to keep hundred blades, you'll have to go with sever-gash, or replace shock with shell shock and one of the running skills with body blow.

Enraging Charge
Flail
Hundred Blades
Sun and Moon
Shell Shock
Body Blow
Bulls Strike
Lions Comfort

Kind of energy intensive but more workable, I would say. Flail is fine in AB (or FA, JQ) but don't get used to it and use it anywhere else, it wont work. Since Shell Shock needs a second to activate, it could break your 'flow' if you have one.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 02:11 AM // 02:11

i found him:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/5038/gw002b.jpg

lady clutch right? he's the one laying on the ground.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Moderator's Edit: No quote wars please.

Thanks for the advice, but you still don't think I can solo cap shrines which disappoints me. I tried out the standard dev hammer war build pvx suggested and it failed completely. Fainthehartedness made me useless. utterly useless. I'm going to try a cripslash build I guess, I will give you my input.

Morix, take that build and go into AB and you will see it can solo cap shrines if used right.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

if "used right" is how you played that round, then no, it most certainly does not cap shrines well. you had to use a ranger, a dervish, AND a monk to cap shrines. and it took you well over 20 seconds each time to clear just one or two npcs.

luminoire · Aug 04, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

tbh, capping shrines isn't where warriors shine anyways.

any random pyro/fc pyro could cap a shrine better than any warrior can, and like you said, literally in "5" seconds.

with that in mind, why did you design a build to do negligible damage to "balled up" npcs in AB and do mediocre damage to your target?

...and lol, it's hilarious you'd compare shielding hands to deep wound removal.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Moderator's Edit: Quote wars.

this is for original AB builds. I made an original AB build that has a different use than most warriors... and I get flamed to hell for it telling me how ineffective it is. the build was made for originality and versatility more than anything. obviously the most effective builds have been discovered. this was just a build i wanted others too try but aparently this is the thread where people go to bash original builds rather than create them.

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Moderator's Edit: Quote wars. Removed reference to deleted material.

this thread is for EFFECTIVE original builds. your build is not effective.

my build is designed to kill opponent shrine cappers. judging how easily i could manhandle your build, i'd say it was working. think of it as an interceptor plane in a naval battle, designed to take out the bombers trying to attack the capitol ships. and yes, it's very good for 1v1 also.

btw, i was using the wrong helmet for my build. i had +2 sword instead of +2 axe. oops.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Moderator's Edit: be polite.

if you want to actually try my build out and see if it is effective try it in AB and not on some master of dmg bs k.

EDIT: Quote from the first post:
"So one of the reasons I find AB the funnest part of the game is that you can pick an obscure or uncommon elite, create a build around it, and make it work, in some cases work very well.

In light of this I decided to make this thread in the hope that people will contribute their original builds and ideas so that other veteran ABers like myself can try them out!

This is NOT a place to bash on other people's builds, please keep criticism constructive not abusive."

It works for my purpose and it suggests you try it out before you give constructive criticism. Obviously this thread has turned from "Hey, try this out it's pretty fun..." to "Wow, if you don't run this 1 build you fail epicly".

GG attemping to have fun in GW

moriz · Aug 04, 2009, 05:09 AM // 05:09

your build doesn't work very well. in fact, i'd say it doesn't work at all. you are half-assed at fighting other players, and can't cap worth shit. this is for FUNCTIONAL builds. yours isn't functional. that's about the most constructive criticism you are likely to receive.

BobTheTank · Aug 04, 2009, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Any build for AB'ing should be geared towards killing NPCs, not other players. A good player avoids the mobs and caps. Capping wins battles, not pointless killing.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 04, 2009, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

this is for original AB builds. I made an original AB build that has a different use than most warriors... and I get flamed to hell for it telling me how ineffective it is. the build was made for originality and versatility more than anything. obviously the most effective builds have been discovered. this was just a build i wanted others too try but aparently this is the thread where people go to bash original builds rather than create them.

1: Being unique doesn't mean you're not useless.

2: You dis hammer wars yet you're talkin about versatility?

Hammers can be used offensively or defensively. A good Dev hammer war could take most shrines at a decent rate as it is. Assuming you're not splitting from your team, I can't possibly understand why you'd need HB for shrine capping.

Now there's one thing you should keep in mind: a sword attack with HB does pretty much the same damage as an auto-atack from a hammer. Basically, if there's no nec with Barbs on your team, it's a fat waste of an elite. If you do decide to put Barbs on a necro, it's actually a decent elite that gets past Prot Spirit and still does a little damage whenever you're blocked. Still though, no deep wound is bad.

Even then, the big difference between that and a hammer is that is that a monk being KD'd 24/7 from one can't cast any spells. That means you're preventing a shitload of heals. That means the other team is gonna go down faster. It also means you can work as a team (were learning new words here folks) and have a caster worry about AoE damage on the shrines while you handle everything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheTank

Any build for AB'ing should be geared towards killing NPCs, not other players. A good player avoids the mobs and caps. Capping wins battles, not pointless killing.

Fun fact: shrines don't cap themselves.

Going up against teams with a "cap, don't fight" mentality are usually easy battles. They go in with silly farm builds, then when a good balanced team decides to pick a fight with them, they drop flies because they're suited specifically for killing tard NPC's. I bet they get surprised when they find out that actual players won't stand in Savannah Heat.....gasp

GuLLinda · Aug 04, 2009, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Sometimes you have to stop the capper team at kurzick side (in my case), and then you need a team that can do 4vs4, and yes, seen it so many times when we stop 1 capper team, and suddenly we have 5-6 flags because they dont have a team who caps anymore.

I really have one thing to say, play as a team, win as a team, balanced ftw.

Jaran Cell · Aug 04, 2009, 10:16 AM // 10:16

SH-Meteor-Rodgorts.

A decent Ele with these skills (or similar ones) is all you need to cap shrines at a decent speed.
The other characters should be built around taking down or generally hindering opposing players, having them too focus on capping is a waste.

It's quite possible to make a decent HB build but even the good ones arn't used becouse of the AoE component but becouse it gets through guardian and adds a bit of extra dps.

I'd take something like this: () is for the crips slash variant wich imho is quite superior.

HB (Crips Slash)
Sever Artery (Conjure X)
Gash
Sun and moon
Savage Slash
Bulls Strike
Frenzy
Rush

dorin · Aug 04, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobTheTank

Any build for AB'ing should be geared towards killing NPCs, not other players. A good player avoids the mobs and caps. Capping wins battles, not pointless killing.

As long you have a balanced team , killing NPCs is an easy-fast job for ele.

Do you think AB it`s all about killing NPCs and capping shrines ? Believe me , it`s not. Hypothetically :you have on your back a team (enemy) wich is re`capping all shrines taked by you. So , what are you doing ? Ignoring them ? No . If u have a balanced team , if you know what your teammates are capable to do , you just turn your ass back and using shrine`s advantage / terrain`s advantage, or just directly , you beat them. Move fast, cap fast, avoid mobs and stop other teams from capping ( of course 4 vs 4 fight, don`t feed the mob).

Conclusion: AB it`s all about fast movement, fast capping, and to know which fight to pick and which not. (Not avoiding all enemy`s team)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrimz

his build is obv. made for 1v1 and not for AoE such as mine is... I thought i made that clear.

Wrong. Moriz`s build it`s not made for 1vs1. It`s made for killing newbies/noobs (yeah, 1vs1 works there) and keeping pressure on on other good players and killing them using team`s help.
For AoE you have an ele.

Shrimz · Aug 04, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

The only problem I see with dev hammer wars is that they can be shutdown so easy. Especially in AB where you are fighting against 12 others.

Fainthehartedness completely destroys a hammer making them attack once every 3 seconds which ruins a chain.
Balanced stance can ever be activated while KD'd(which they really need to change) so it's almost impossible to keep a monk knock locked.
Guardian/Distortion can ruin a KD as well.

I didn't mean Moriz build was for 1v1 but more for single target, I just stated it wrong last night. The thing I like about my build is that it can fight single targets by doing over 50 damage every auto attack with HB + vamp sword (against squishys of course) and over 100 damage when hit by sun/moon.

When I mentioned versatility, I meant that it's fairly harder to completely shut me down and that I can do multiple things(see versatility).

I can still do damage while the people are blocking because of HB, not much but it's better than none.
I can do single target, AoE, or solo shrine capping.

I might put in Levithian's Sweep somewhere (probably for sprint) for KD whilst the monk uses guardian.
And I might change to frenzy/rush instead of flail/enraging charge. But as I mentioned earlier, this build is to cap shrines and fight bunched up foes and the AI don't run away often. And if I used frenzy, I would not be able to solo cap shrines.

and the reason why I like to cap is because even though my team is balanced, most of the other teams in AB just invite everyone they can and go out to fight. so normally they are very unorganized and we only have 1 monk per 12 chars...

bungusmaximus · Aug 04, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Bad dev hammers get shut down 24/7 in AB, yeah, but good ones wait till the right moment and knocklock whatever is capable of shutting them down. People never see it coming anyways because people in AB usually don't consider warriors a great threat (due to the abundance of bad warriors in AB that don't even scratch their target).