Curse

Borat_Best_Player · Sep 01, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

With constant enchant coverings, either OoV or Taint bonds can be fairly protected. A rend spike is still a rend spike and requires the same reactive monking from the backline regardless of presence or absence of bonds, though suddenly one person no longer having the yellow arrow next to their name is a huge giveaway as to who is about to need attention.

Really a fairly well coordinated team can keep up bonds, the only things that really threaten a bonder are nature's renewal, mirror, chilblains (chilblains is pro), or monks that let the bonder get spiked out. Well, e-denial can hurt, but really when was the last time that was viable. It isn't hard for teams to call when their bonds go down, nor for the bonder to put them back up. As long as the teams can keep bonds covered and keep down NR, then bonds are not hard to keep up.

The reason bonds aren't run anymore is not about the ability to keep them up, its about their effectiveness. So much of HA is based upon AoE, Degen, Hexes, or some other non-attack damage. Face a team with less of their damage focused in the physical attacking and suddenly the bonder is much more of a wasted team slot.

I was protting in GvG recently and got so fed up with r/a's that I slotted life bond instead of spirit bond, even without a way to maintain it on everyone or any e-management for it, it paid of tremendously.

What he said.

On top of that:

Sway doesn't have enchant removal, and NR shouldn't be a problem.

A balanced applies pressure through warriors "hitting" shit. A rend is available every 20 seconds. On top of that, rending the "spike target" means no rend on the HB. This, in its turn, means you won't collapse under pressure, as you have a HB who can spam freely.

Again, the bonder bar might not be ideal against every team, (It's pretty useless against sfway and bspam) but it pretty much guarantees the win against sway and hexway.

Also, when you're facing a caster-high team (Such as hexway), don't put up life bond, but rather maintain balthazar's spirit on both Monks. Against bspam, it works wonders. (Dark pact + balths spirit on the infuser = spam Heal Party + Patient)

Krill · Sep 02, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

I mentioned your nightmare spike Borat because (again), it has a boat load of party heals on the rits that would be lost in a balanced build by replacing the single support rit with a DH bonder. You could maybe squeeze in a PwK somewhere but it would not be much and offense would be sacrificed. It's my experience that a ton of hex removal does not always beat hexways either. Double dropping PwK's and getting full duration life's from a rit with full resto on the other hand does often keep a balanced team alive along enough to get kills before too much pressure settles in (convert helps too). The bonder does work extremely well against sway and OoV spamway, but if I had to make a rough guess, right now 30% of the teams are sway & spamway, 30% are hexways, 20% are balanced and 20% are other, give or take a little and not counting UW.

You also mentioned that everyone was running a PnH monk just a sort while ago. Yes, but the PnH had party (well area) heals and most teams were also running a tease hero with additional party healing on top of that. Hexes were not viable in that meta because the 7s recharge PnH was a tad broken and teaseway groups had a ridiculous amount of pressure from just 4 offensive characters, while hexways usually run 6 fully offensive characters with a small amount of support and no defense besides hexes. In short you were simply ran over by tease groups before getting any significant pressure.

I think a Mo/P PnH would still be viable, but with divine healing and heaven's instead of bonds. Without that you're going to have real problems when your HB is being constantly barraged with rends and rips that minimize the use of heal party. I guess it depends on how much you trust your PD to shut down enchantment removal to protect your backline. I also like that the PnH has PnH and deny, so if PnH is hum sig'd you've still got another powerful hex removal.

Sorry to turn this into a novel, just wanted to clarify my earlier statement.

superraptors · Sep 07, 2009, 07:00 AM // 07:00

pvp seriously at its lowest, r/a everywhere, such a degenrative build, balance gets rolled in cap points by r/a 's, sending atleast 2-3 back to counter 1...
worst month of ha ever even though its been shit for so long

Buns United · Sep 07, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Considering almost everyone's running with R/A nowadays, I'm beginning to think that Mirrored Stance has an use...

On a more serious note though, with atleast 2 months (I'm not expecting Anet to be done with their skill updates in time now because that'd be a first...) in between every update, expect HA to be like it is for ages.

stuntharley · Sep 07, 2009, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Meh, R/A's extremely easy too beat with VoR/SS any kind of melee hate basically

bitchbar player · Sep 07, 2009, 01:57 PM // 13:57

yeah like running hexway is fun........

Mrincognito1324 · Sep 07, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

lets nerf every bloody skill until it becomes as useless as the monk healing skills.

Borat_Best_Player · Sep 07, 2009, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrincognito1324

lets nerf every bloody skill until it becomes as useless as the monk healing skills.

PvE section is more up on the main page... You skipped that exit...

superraptors · Sep 08, 2009, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

Meh, R/A's extremely easy too beat with VoR/SS any kind of melee hate basically

not everyone enjoys hexwaying or herowaying their rank or win
owait maybe you do

its easy to beat thats why basically r/a's are in hoh 99% of the time?

Jbrown · Sep 08, 2009, 10:48 AM // 10:48

You don't need hexes to beat this build. Midline wands the trappers to stop atleast 50% of the traps, kill nr and tranq on recharge, and here is the big secret no seems to know about....KILL THE RIT AND ONLY THE RIT ON RECHARGE! I can promise you that 95% of the e/rits out there will ONLY use the weapon spells on themselves. Hell, you can train the rit for 10 minutes and the e/rits won't do anything but red bar it. Once you kill him 5 times burning all of there sigs (it will only take about 2 minutes at the most) kill the e/rits, trappers, the train the r/a's into the ground. 3-4 minute match even for average teams. Grasping and Foes is all you need to beat these teams. If your team is terrible, you will lose, therefore, don't be bad.

Stop trying to spec gimmicks, you don't need 5 copies of b surge, hexes, 8 monks or anything special to beat it, just out smart it. Most bad players play this because they can't win with anything else, they are bad for a reason, use it against them. IF they are told to maintain warding on them, they will do it for the whole match because they do not know better.

stuntharley · Sep 08, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

not everyone enjoys hexwaying or herowaying their rank or win
owait maybe you do

its easy to beat thats why basically r/a's are in hoh 99% of the time?

soz broseph, out of me 10k fame ive gotten about 8k from balanced

Borat_Best_Player · Sep 08, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntharley

soz broseph, out of me 10k fame ive gotten about 8k from balanced

That's what Vigor said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jbrown

"""

Bad teams let their Rit die like that. As for your traps bs: All it takes is 1 Dust Trap. As soon as one dust trap gets off (SoC ftw?), people are blinded (It's 5 pulses, and People are kiting ALOT due to R/A's, so alot of people are bound to hit a Dust Trap) and the ball starts rolling.

Rangers spirits, agreed, shouldn't be too much of a problem, but they arn't. Sure, it's a pain in the ass to kill them as a Warrior, or even an Ele (Overextending hurts if the spirit is placed in the back), but it can be dealt with.

I have come to the conclusing that Rt/A's are about twice as good as E/Rt's. (They run 15 resto, 13 channeling and bring OoS -which can be 40/40'd, and gives about 25-30% more energy than Ether Prism- and optionally can take out 1 weapon spell and spirit for Return. (Return > prism)

I havn't faced this version yet, but I wouldn't want to. (Prisms run out of energy relativly fast - These guys can keep on pumping)

Krill · Sep 08, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat_Best_Player

I have come to the conclusing that Rt/A's are about twice as good as E/Rt's. (They run 15 resto, 13 channeling and bring OoS -which can be 40/40'd, and gives about 25-30% more energy than Ether Prism- and optionally can take out 1 weapon spell and spirit for Return. (Return > prism)

What about dark escape (10-12s half damage > 3s no damage)? People were running primary rits with dark escape in IWAY groups after the nerfs to prism and rit skills on secondaries with good success. I am also somewhat surprised that nobody has tried nec rits with sway, the old version with well of power and preservation did have more resilience to pressure builds, of course that was also before the nerfs to PwK and weapon spells.

Meh, I guess people will have an extra week to farm with sway if dagger rangers were going to be nerfed this week.

Monkity Monk · Sep 09, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat_Best_Player

I have come to the conclusing that Rt/A's are about twice as good as E/Rt's. (They run 15 resto, 13 channeling and bring OoS -which can be 40/40'd, and gives about 25-30% more energy than Ether Prism- and optionally can take out 1 weapon spell and spirit for Return. (Return > prism)

I havn't faced this version yet, but I wouldn't want to. (Prisms run out of energy relativly fast - These guys can keep on pumping)

Just because OoS might have a better energy return doesn't necessarily make it better than prism. E/Rt's have a thing called energy storage.

Reverend Dr · Sep 09, 2009, 01:02 AM // 01:02

More maximum energy is irrelevant next to energy management.

OoO Rift OoO · Sep 09, 2009, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I cba to read every post, but i was thinking...

Do to escape, like what was done to hidden calptrops/moi/sig of hum..Disable all of your non ranger skills (PvP)

Krill · Sep 09, 2009, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkity Monk

Just because OoS might have a better energy return doesn't necessarily make it better than prism. E/Rt's have a thing called energy storage.

It's not the energy return that matters, prism is actually more unless you cast OoS from a channeling set regularly. Primary rits get an extra 13 points of healing from mend body, 16 points from spirit light, 10 points from PwK and 20 points from life. Over the course of a long match or against big pressure that all adds up. Perhaps more importantly though, after the nerf to weapon spells they have spawning power to compensate. To be exact if you ran 12+2 resto, 10+1 channeling and 7+1 spawning power (ideal breakpoints) WoW and WoS would last 11s each vs. 7s on a secondary rit with 12 resto and no spawning power.

vinoth · Sep 09, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

I believe the e/rt is far more superior to the n/rt or the rt/a. Against good teams, spirits will not be up for assistance (as they shut it down). therefore u wont be using much mend body or spirit light. You will be protting for the whole match. When no one is watching, u drop the odd life and spirit transfer. If you are an n/rt, u will be constantly sacrificing health as there will not be enough spirits. As E/rt, u get the added advantage of 3 secs of invisibility and no health loss penalty.

Krill · Sep 09, 2009, 04:28 AM // 04:28

You still sac health from spirit light with ether prism active when there is not a spirit in range. No sway backline can last very long without spirits because you have no spirit transfer, no conditional removal (besides maybe Li Ming) and the health sac from spirit light is almost as big as the heal.

vinoth · Sep 09, 2009, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

You still sac health from spirit light with ether prism active when there is not a spirit in range. No sway backline can last very long without spirits because you have no spirit transfer, no conditional removal (besides maybe Li Ming) and the health sac from spirit light is almost as big as the heal.

Hence i said, you will be protting for the whole match. A team with trappers can hold on for 3 + minutes just by protting and using mend body.