Curse

Jam Jar · Sep 20, 2009, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I've been debating with myself over which to use for a midline: Blinding Surge or Mirror of Ice. So far, the only conclusions I have made are based off of team compositions, i.e. lack of snare would mean MoI could be better. Are there reasons that go beyond that? Maybe preferring one over the other in a pressure or spike build?

subarucar · Sep 20, 2009, 07:50 AM // 07:50

For a water elite I would rather have Water Trident or Icy Shackles. If running a spike then MoI or possibly Shatterstone would be better.
But as you said when it comes to Water or Air, then its team composition and what the current meta is. If you have heaps of blocks, then snares would be better. If the current meta features many physicals then you want B-surge.

kedde · Sep 20, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Depends on what you really want.
Bsurge will give you a slight edge 8v8, but if running that you'll probably want a cripshot ranger and possibly PR and/or hammer warrior since they are better for stalling things or splitting.

If you choose a MoI you can go something like magebane or BA on your ranger and choose whatever warriors you like.

It completely depends on what you want for your team and what weaknesses and strengths you have and your area of focus.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 20, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

With MoI you have a stronger spike and better movement control, with BSurge you have better defense, but rely on 1 skill for it, and you get 1-2 utility slots.

i farm baddies · Sep 20, 2009, 04:28 PM // 16:28

take both

dsfkasdfksda

Zzes Tyan · Sep 20, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I prefer a water ele over the bsurge, you can snare their frontline, keeping them from getting to your backline at all, and you have Blurred Vision

tealspikes · Sep 20, 2009, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by kedde

Depends on what you really want.
Bsurge will give you a slight edge 8v8, but if running that you'll probably want a cripshot ranger and possibly PR and/or hammer warrior since they are better for stalling things or splitting.

Bsurge for strong 8v8, MoI is better countersplit. Many teams just bring both.
Imo experienced teams will do better with Bsurge because they know how to react very quickly to splits and will make better use of the extra utility on the bar. However if you're team is uncomfortable dealing with split tactics then MoI makes them easier to handle and it does more raw damage. Pretty even i think

IMMORTAlMITCH · Sep 20, 2009, 06:15 PM // 18:15

I haven't seen a lot of teams run both, MoI + Mindshock is a more popular combination tbh.

Tearz1993 · Sep 20, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Currently I'd say go for MoI if you have to choose, solely for the reason that it is vastly superior to bsurge on splits.

I Angra I · Sep 20, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

It depends on the map and what you think the other team is running, and what you need in your build in general. If it's a map that promotes splitting or if you lack snares anywhere else then an moi will obviously be better. If you think you're going to be playing straight up 8v8 the entire game then bsurge is probably better for that. MoI has a ton of spike damage also and is comparable to a bsurge's spike damage, though it lacks cracked armor which is a big thing if you're running it in a spike build. Bsurge just provides more defense and tankability, though.

I Jonas I · Sep 21, 2009, 12:14 AM // 00:14

run B surge and snare things with gale like a man

shadows of hob · Sep 21, 2009, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Our guild runs the MOI for some of the reasons you said, spike/movement control/some defense with BV. Also great to push for a teamwipe when they drop.

The rit has IC in our, and others, build. Give it a try.

Motoko · Sep 23, 2009, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMMORTAlMITCH

With MoI you have a stronger spike and better movement control, with BSurge you have better defense, but rely on 1 skill for it, and you get 1-2 utility slots.

This.

Oh and the Civilization III quote: Offense is the best defense!

Jam Jar · Sep 24, 2009, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Thanks for the responses.

Going offtopic a bit, but if you play with a MoI, what are (if any) changes to the Cripshot? MB? BA? IA? Or even Mel Shot?

Motoko · Sep 24, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

BA or MB. Depending the situation.

If you are in a position where ping is a gamble (american or euro servers), you are probably safer with BA because you will at least get the damage.

Byron · Sep 24, 2009, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Mirror of ice is a great spike assist and provides good movement control. They are almost equally vulnerable to shutdown, though obviously MoI is more hindered by constant removal. Nonetheless, I'd pick MoI every time.

As for the ranger, it depends on what my second midliner is. Dom mesmer, BA. Stand ele or paragon, MB. Fire ele split, crip shot.

Jam Jar · Sep 24, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator Motoko

BA or MB. Depending the situation.

If you are in a position where ping is a gamble (american or euro servers), you are probably safer with BA because you will at least get the damage.

Wouldn't your ranger have zero cripple incase he needs to def/off split?

I Angra I · Sep 25, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

mels shot is amazing in any build because of the fast poison spread + bleeding degen + decent snare that doesnt get owned by featherfoot grace like cripshot does

just sayin

Motoko · Sep 25, 2009, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jam Jar

Wouldn't your ranger have zero cripple incase he needs to def/off split?

[build][Burning Arrow][Pin down][Distracting shot][savage shot][natural stride][mending touch][apply poison][/build][sig]

most rangers i watch seem to take lightning reflexes though instead of pindown...and your water ele better be aggressive and watch for any signs of splitting with this set up

plus the Rt/E is probably the most optimal build at the time so your team will have defensive snares on that end

edit:zzzz

scruffy · Sep 25, 2009, 05:26 AM // 05:26

im not sure what the meta is but I think if you run three bsurges threeeeeeeeee on isle of the dead you will win