Curse

Steps_Descending · Oct 03, 2009, 02:41 PM // 14:41

After hearing a random suggestion to change SF in PvE that looked like that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Why not this?
Shadow Form (PvE): Whenever you use a lead attack you shadow step to target foe.

Would that kind of enchantment completely break sins in PvP?

And are sins even used in PvP outside of ab (if you consider that PvP)? I'm too far from my comp to check observer.

Gboy Mesmero · Oct 03, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

if you use a lead attack, aren't you already next to target foe? (unless you mean a spell, but the description says lead attack)

Killerminds · Oct 03, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

That would make it completely useless right.
*Ponders*

/signed

Killed u man · Oct 03, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Shadowsteps have alrdy proven to be a degenerative way of promoting sins. Last thing we need is a sin with jagged strike solo'ing an intire base in about 1 minute without being in danger one second.

X Cytherea X · Oct 03, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steps_Descending

And are sins even used in PvP outside of ab (if you consider that PvP)? I'm too far from my comp to check observer.

assassins are used extensively in AB, FA, JQ, RA... more than half the existing forms of pvp (also the most populated ones).

one of the most used in HB too, but that will be gone soon.

Steps_Descending · Oct 03, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gboy Mesmero

if you use a lead attack, aren't you already next to target foe? (unless you mean a spell, but the description says lead attack)

No I meant Lead Attack, but that also meant your leads woul dbasically become ranged spells that Step you to your target.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Shadowsteps have alrdy proven to be a degenerative way of promoting sins. Last thing we need is a sin with jagged strike solo'ing an intire base in about 1 minute without being in danger one second

Wasn't it a problem mostly because other classes were also getting it? I tought mobility and hit'n'run were the original purpose for sins. They might have overdone the mobility part...
But yeah after posting it I realised some combos like Apply Poison+JS+this would probably mean constant bleeding/poison on every thing...

Cythera : basically in the low-end PvP. I guess that might explains it.

X Cytherea X · Oct 03, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

if by "low-end" you mean "pwning through individual skill with less dependence on teammates in a chaotic environment" then that is a good thing and the appropriate locations for true ninjas.

deluxe · Oct 03, 2009, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Shadowsteps have alrdy proven to be a degenerative way of promoting sins. Last thing we need is a sin with jagged strike solo'ing an intire base in about 1 minute without being in danger one second.

I'm sorry, this is already done.

3 minute base clear and lord dead with 1 sin.

quoted wrong guy.

Steps_Descending · Oct 03, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Cytherea X

if by "low-end" you mean "pwning through individual skill with less dependence on teammates in a chaotic environment" then that is a good thing and the appropriate locations for true ninjas.

hehehe you got me on that one. Yeah I meant low-end in the sense most people on the forum use it : GvG and HA and TA, the team heavy formats.
Considering GW is generally marketed as a team game, you'd guess the major focus should be on the team based ones... Now wich one take the more personal skill : team work is generally harder than solo play and off-guard give an incredible advantage to the attaker, so...

BAH! I'm not in the mood to sound elitist or philosophical today! Beside, I've only done AB,FA and RA so I can't seriously talk about pvp balance.

Yeah you got me, Sin just fit better with AB/FA/JQ playstyle.

ogre_jd · Oct 03, 2009, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gboy Mesmero

if you use a lead attack, aren't you already next to target foe? (unless you mean a spell, but the description says lead attack)

Actually, I think the point would be that, instead of you running to the target when you hit your Lead Attack's key, you'd shadow step there instead. I'm sure there are many people who close in on enemies that way with melee classes rather than manual positioning.

For PvP, it'd probably have to be something like "For 10 seconds, your next Lead Attack shadow steps you to target foe if you are not already adjacent" with at least a 30 second recharge to make it quite useful, but not overpowered. In PvE, however, "Your next 2...3...4 Lead Attacks shadow step you to target foe if you are not already adjacent" would probably be fun and probably no more overpowered than most other things you'd find in PvE.

Now, while that would make a great new skill, I'd still say Shadow Form should be changed to something like "Elite Stance. For 5...10...15 seconds, you cannot be affected by friendly or enemy skills, attacks or items, and none of your skills, attacks or items may affect others." so that, basically, you're immune to everything non-environmental - both good and bad - and all you can do is self-heal, self-buff, etc... It'd be damned useful as a recovery or escape tool, but if such an effect could be exploited offensively for farming and such, I can't see it.

BlackSephir · Oct 03, 2009, 05:49 PM // 17:49

ANets probably gonna do their usual shit when it comes to sf- nerf it to hell instead of making it actually USEFUL in normal play

The Cake Archer · Oct 03, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

It wouldn't even be possible. Serverside doesn't recognize you queuing up skills, only clientside. Therefore you'd have to be adjacent inorder to trigger the shadowstep, which would become worthless.

Gboy Mesmero · Oct 03, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Actually, I think the point would be that, instead of you running to the target when you hit your Lead Attack's key, you'd shadow step there instead. I'm sure there are many people who close in on enemies that way with melee classes rather than manual positioning.

For PvP, it'd probably have to be something like "For 10 seconds, your next Lead Attack shadow steps you to target foe if you are not already adjacent" with at least a 30 second recharge to make it quite useful, but not overpowered. In PvE, however, "Your next 2...3...4 Lead Attacks shadow step you to target foe if you are not already adjacent" would probably be fun and probably no more overpowered than most other things you'd find in PvE.

Now, while that would make a great new skill, I'd still say Shadow Form should be changed to something like "Elite Stance. For 5...10...15 seconds, you cannot be affected by friendly or enemy skills, attacks or items, and none of your skills, attacks or items may affect others." so that, basically, you're immune to everything non-environmental - both good and bad - and all you can do is self-heal, self-buff, etc... It'd be damned useful as a recovery or escape tool, but if such an effect could be exploited offensively for farming and such, I can't see it.

Ok, i see what he meant, but this is really hard (not impossible) to program as lead attacks need to check if you are under shadow form, etc... They may have put melee attacks in a separate category that makes it near impossible to make them ranged
Also, its really overpowered,
For your suggestion, 5-15 seconds is too much, it should be really 1-3 if that was too be implemented with a 15-30 second recharge

Greedy Gus · Oct 03, 2009, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Obviously this would be possible, making lead attacks act as ranged attacks + shadowstep. Obviously this would be a bad idea and not desirable at all.

Eragon Zarroc · Oct 03, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

depends on the duration of the enchantment. if it last long enough to keep up all the time, it would make lead attack always shadow step=broken. if it only lasts long enough for say one lead attack, would be a waste to bring it as an elite. so making it shadow step on leads would prolly not work well, having strong balance issues.

Ghost Dog · Oct 03, 2009, 09:08 PM // 21:08

The state of sins?

Cheap and beginner friendly.

God_Hand · Oct 03, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog

The state of sins?

Cheap and beginner friendly.

This. This. And oh yeah, this.

Reverend Dr · Oct 04, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Nah man it takes skill to play sin. So much skill.

1. Are you blind or have similar hexes -> do not attack
2. Is your target heavily protted or in defensive stance -> do not attack
3. RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, attack anyway.

Krill · Oct 04, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Hmm, well outside the usual sins r bad arguments there's really only two different styles of sin play, telespike ganking and crit pressure. That's a nice way of saying picking someone, slamming your keys and trying again when your skills recharge or c-spacing around like a boss in AB and RA with critical defenses. Oh, and something about a fetish with Naruto.

I don't see what buffing more assassin skills could possibly hope to accomplish. Attempts in recent memory have been disastrous and / or had unforeseen abuse on secondaries (hidden caltrops, mark of insecurity, palm strike, wastrel's collapse, recent dagger buffs all come to mind).

Steps_Descending · Oct 04, 2009, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

I don't see what buffing more assassin skills could possibly hope to accomplish. Attempts in recent memory have been disastrous and / or had unforeseen abuse on secondaries .

Wasn't really a demand for a buff, was just a random SFnerf idea that, i tought, was much more interesting than the actual SF.

That and I wanted to know how assas were doing in PvP.